NHL to Atlanta odds just increased significantly

[AtlantaWhaler]

Not a fan of Steak Shapiro, but this is a good take from one of our local sports talk stations.

https://www.audacy.com/929thegame/s...pport-hockey-critics-should-do-their-homework

 

[Mach2]

OK, the Atlanta owners will be different this time, but putting butts in the seats has little to do with the owners. The Atlanta fans' interests and demographics have not changed, and they're passionate for the NFL, NBA, and MLB. So, why does the NHL believe it will different this time for Atlanta?

 

[cowboy82nd]

OK, the Atlanta owners will be different this time, but putting butts in the seats has little to do with the owners. The Atlanta fans' interests and demographics have not changed, and they're passionate for the NFL, NBA, and MLB. So, why does the NHL believe it will different this time for Atlanta?

I couldn't disagree more. When you are trying to build a fan base and the owners do everything to push fans away, it doesn't want you to support them.

 

[AtlantaWhaler]

OK, the Atlanta owners will be different this time, but putting butts in the seats has little to do with the owners. The Atlanta fans' interests and demographics have not changed, and they're passionate for the NFL, NBA, and MLB. So, why does the NHL believe it will different this time for Atlanta?

First off, ownership has a ton to do with putting butts in the seats. Imagine if the owners of your favorite team outwardly admits they don't want them, then they all sue each other and keeps the team near the cap floor. Then, in turn, over their entire existence as a team, makes the playoffs only one time and never won a game.

Second, Atlanta has changed a TON. Since the Thrashers moved in 2011, the Atlanta MSA has grown by about 1.5 million people, and it continues to grow. It's annual growth rate over the last 30 years is a little over 2%. With the people, the corporations (and their wallets) have followed. Since 2011, Mercedes, Norfolk Southern, Microsoft, Google, Papa Johns and others have planted a hub or HQ here. It's the 3rd largest home to Fortune 500 HQ's in the US. Atlanta has leaped over Philly to be the 8th largest market in the US and is on pace to jump over DC in the next 5-10 years.

Third, the fans supporting the other teams provides a good case study for a potential NHL team. Since the Braves moved to the burbs, their attendance has gone up. Since the Thrashers moved, the Hawks (who continues to suck) attendance has been generally sellouts. The MLS team has set soccer attendance records and US Soccer moved their HQ here. College football continues to be huge and the NCAA moved the CFB Hall of Fame here.

If I'm some rich billionaire or work with the NHL, I'd want to be a part of all that.

 

[Salsero1]

OK, the Atlanta owners will be different this time, but putting butts in the seats has little to do with the owners. The Atlanta fans' interests and demographics have not changed, and they're passionate for the NFL, NBA, and MLB. So, why does the NHL believe it will different this time for Atlanta?

But I thought that was Ottawa and Chicago's excuse?

 

[WingsFan95]

Sure, let's give St. Louis an NFL team again, Cincinnati, Kansas and San Diego an NBA franchise and hell what did Buffalo do it not have an MLB and NBA franchise back at their snowy paradise?

But seriously, Atlanta would be the first city to get 3 different teams in the same sport nevermind in just a little over 50 years inclusive if this were to happen. I mean, I get that we can count generations every 10 years but when you compare this to the Nords going on 30 years without a team when the only reason they lost theirs was due to recession coupled with poor exchange rate? I mean common. Atlanta twice lost their teams because they did not care.

 

[AtlantaWhaler]

Sure, let's give St. Louis an NFL team again, Cincinnati, Kansas and San Diego an NBA franchise and hell what did Buffalo do it not have an MLB and NBA franchise back at their snowy paradise?

But seriously, Atlanta would be the first city to get 3 different teams in the same sport nevermind in just a little over 50 years inclusive if this were to happen. I mean, I get that we can count generations every 10 years but when you compare this to the Nords going on 30 years without a team when the only reason they lost theirs was due to recession coupled with poor exchange rate? I mean common. Atlanta twice lost their teams because they did not care.

So, Quebec gets an economic excuse, but Atlanta doesn't despite bankrupt owners, or moving during the worst financial crisis since the Great Depression. Got it.

 

[cowboy82nd]

Sure, let's give St. Louis an NFL team again, Cincinnati, Kansas and San Diego an NBA franchise and hell what did Buffalo do it not have an MLB and NBA franchise back at their snowy paradise?

But seriously, Atlanta would be the first city to get 3 different teams in the same sport nevermind in just a little over 50 years inclusive if this were to happen. I mean, I get that we can count generations every 10 years but when you compare this to the Nords going on 30 years without a team when the only reason they lost theirs was due to recession coupled with poor exchange rate? I mean common. Atlanta twice lost their teams because they did not care.

That's not true when it comes to the Thrashers. I wasn't here for the Flames, but the Thrashers ownership pushed ALL the fans away.

If you don't know what you are talking about, just admit it. It's ok. Nobody knows everything.

 

[dj4aces]

Atlanta twice lost their teams because they did not care.

Just because you say something with confidence doesn't mean what you're saying is true.

 

[No Fun Shogun]

The Thrashers were acquired by a group that only bought them because they wanted the arena and the Hawks. Once that was done, they were looking to offload them and had no interest having an NHL tenant.

I'm not saying that Atlanta is a surefire success, but blaming fans for a pretty calculated ownership move to get rid of them seems pretty offbase.

As for attendance, yeah... they struggled. So? The Thrashers had one postseason appearance in a decade, zero postseason wins, and constantly were letdowns. Surprise, that'll lead to dwindling attendance in all but gargantuan markets.

And as for the "failed twice" notion, that's only barely less inane than saying that about Quebec because the Bulldogs failed ages ago, too. The Flames were over 40 years ago, the vast majority of us here weren't even alive back then. Does anyone here honestly care about anything good or bad that happened in another market that long ago beyond an, "uh-huh, neat" momentary thought?

 

[GreenHornet]

But seriously, Atlanta would be the first city to get 3 different teams in the same sport nevermind in just a little over 50 years inclusive if this were to happen.

This is false. Washington lost two different incarnations of the MLB Senators in 1960 and 1972 before the Montreal Expos moved there to become the Nationals in 2005.

Cleveland has lost two different NFL teams in the past. Remember, the Rams were born in Cleveland before moving in 1945, and it then lost the first Browns when they moved to Baltimore in 1996 before getting an expansion team three years later.

Chicago had (and lost) two other NBA teams (the Stags and Packers/Zephyrs) before the Bulls stuck.

And those are just the ones I can think of off the top of my head.

 

[VivaLasVegas]

OK, the Atlanta owners will be different this time, but putting butts in the seats has little to do with the owners. The Atlanta fans' interests and demographics have not changed, and they're passionate for the NFL, NBA, and MLB. So, why does the NHL believe it will different this time for Atlanta?

Why should the NHL care if they are being spotted $1 billion up-front?

 

[PALE PWNR]

I'm sure Atlanta will work this time!!!

 

[tucker3434]

OK, the Atlanta owners will be different this time, but putting butts in the seats has little to do with the owners. The Atlanta fans' interests and demographics have not changed, and they're passionate for the NFL, NBA, and MLB. So, why does the NHL believe it will different this time for Atlanta?

Fun fact. Between 1999 and 2011, the Chicago Blackhawks had 3 seasons with worse attendance than any in the Thrasher’s run. This is public information. Just out there for anyone that cares about the truth.

 

[AKL]

Fun fact. Between 1999 and 2011, the Chicago Blackhawks had 3 seasons with worse attendance than any in the Thrasher’s run. This is public information. Just out there for anyone that cares about the truth.

And they'd be towards the bottom again had they not gotten Bedard this year

 

[tucker3434]

And they'd be towards the bottom again had they not gotten Bedard this year

I’m not even trying to dump on the Blackhawks. Almost everyone has poor attendance when the team sucks. The Thrashers were terrible for almost their entire existence and the attendance still never got that bad.

You can compare the Predators and Thrashers attendance side by side and see exactly where they diverge. It was when the Preds made the playoffs 4 straight times. And it wasn’t until they started making later rounds that the attendance started to look really good. That’s literally the only difference between Atlanta and the other southern markets, on ice success. The idea that Atlanta has some sort of aversion to hockey that the rest of the south doesn’t have is complete nonsense.

 

[AKL]

I’m not even trying to dump on the Blackhawks. Almost everyone has poor attendance when the team sucks. The Thrashers were terrible for almost their entire existence and the attendance still never got that bad.

You can compare the Predators and Thrashers attendance side by side and see exactly where they diverge. It was when the Preds made the playoffs 4 straight times. And it wasn’t until they started making later rounds that the attendance started to look really good. That’s literally the only difference between Atlanta and the other southern markets, on ice success. The idea that Atlanta has some sort of aversion to hockey that the rest of the south doesn’t have is complete nonsense.

I agree. If the Thrashers2 are good they'll sell out. If not, they won't. Just like any team in the league.

 

[No Fun Shogun]

Hawks were awful last year and didn't have Bedard, but ended up 20th in attendance. Obviously not great, but when a third of the league was below them, hardly the biggest problem in the league.

Hard to imagine that a Bedard-less Hawks (which, I may remind you, has been the reality since his injury anyway) would've been sniffing the very bottom.

 

[AKL]

Hawks were awful last year and didn't have Bedard, but ended up 20th in attendance. Obviously not great, but when a third of the league was below them, hardly the biggest problem in the league.

Hard to imagine that a Bedard-less Hawks (which, I may remind you, has been the reality since his injury anyway) would've been sniffing the very bottom.

Towards the bottom, not at the very bottom.

But the point isn't to dog on the Hawks. They were once the attendance darlings of the league not that long ago, so it's a good example. The fact that they were 20th last year proves the point that no team can sustain high attendance if the on-ice product isn't any good. The Thrashers previously were never any good, so it shouldn't reflect on the city of Atlanta or the surrounding area that their attendance was low, as that is the case everywhere.

I saw your post earlier, I know you're on the right side of this discussion, I'm not calling you out or accusing you, I'm not trying to pick on the Hawks here, just clarifying the comments on the Hawks attendance.

 

[FlyguyOX]

34 is greater than 32 — The Fourth Period

David Pagnotta talks expansion (Utah, Atanta, KC, Houston & more), the Coyotes, and trade chatter.

www.thefourthperiod.com

Further confirmation of how close we are!!

 

[dj4aces]

Hawks were awful last year and didn't have Bedard, but ended up 20th in attendance. Obviously not great, but when a third of the league was below them, hardly the biggest problem in the league.

Hard to imagine that a Bedard-less Hawks (which, I may remind you, has been the reality since his injury anyway) would've been sniffing the very bottom.

I agree. But one of the excuses we here in Atlanta used to also hear is that "traditional markets support their team no matter what", so the comparison is understandable. It just lacks a bit of context.

The Bill Wirtz ownership was incredibly bad, and his passing was -- and I truly hate to say this about anyone -- probably the best thing to happen to the Blackhawks since their 1961 Cup win.

The lesson here is simple: Ownership absolutely matters. It relates to everything from front office business decisions, sponsorship/advertising opportunities, and even if players want to even sign with your team (or re-sign -- sometimes ownership is why some of the big trades really happen).

 

[VaCaps Fan]

Found Atlanta stuff online! Atlanta Thrashers Ilya Kovalchuk Blue Reebok T Shirt New New Tags Medium | eBay

 

[K Fleur]

The Atlanta of 2024 is not the same Atlanta of like 2006.

Like every other city; put a quality team on the ice and they’ll sell out home games. Something ownership/management failed to do the past two tries

 

[AtlantaWhaler]

I agree. But one of the excuses we here in Atlanta used to also hear is that "traditional markets support their team no matter what", so the comparison is understandable. It just lacks a bit of context.

The Bill Wirtz ownership was incredibly bad, and his passing was -- and I truly hate to say this about anyone -- probably the best thing to happen to the Blackhawks since their 1961 Cup win.

The lesson here is simple: Ownership absolutely matters. It relates to everything from front office business decisions, sponsorship/advertising opportunities, and even if players want to even sign with your team (or re-sign -- sometimes ownership is why some of the big trades really happen).

Yep... as Wirtz demonstrated with the Hawks and Wang demonstrated with the Isle, proper ownership plays a huge roll in a franchise's health.

 

[Apex Predator]

That's not true when it comes to the Thrashers. I wasn't here for the Flames, but the Thrashers ownership pushed ALL the fans away.

If you don't know what you are talking about, just admit it. It's ok. Nobody knows everything.

I’m on the younger side but what happened with Atlanta the second time that owners pushed them away? I do think Atlanta can support a team as population and sponsorship is there. The question is the fan support there?