NHL to Atlanta odds just increased significantly

[Lions67]

I don't think you can keep using the crutch that Canada is better at hockey than the USA when the USA is doing just as good as Canada at supporting their teams, if not better. The top 7 teams in terms of % capacity of arena filled to start the season were American. There were 11 teams that averaged 100.0% or better, 10 of them were American. Vegas and Seattle, being the two most recent expansion teams, are among those 7-11 teams. Carolina, Dallas, Tampa and Nashville, all southern markets, are among those 7-11 teams.

Hockey is succeeding in southern markets, hockey is succeeding in the US. The only time hockey doesn't succeed is when there's severe dysfunction and/or the team just isn't good on the ice, and that goes for Canada just as much as it does the US.

Hockey is definitely succeeding in the Southern Markets.
Just not in ALL of the current Southern Markets.
We all know who they are. They do need to be addressed.
Other than that it is doing better than thought it would. Nashville impresses me very much , so does Carolina.

 

[TheLegend]

They submitted the project for each expansion but were denied the opportunity. Money wasn’t the problem, although at 1 billion, we’ll have to see.

Times have change, large pension funds are looking to get a slice of the pie in that kind of alternative investment for diversification purposes, so I’m not sure you need the local multi-billionaire. CDPQ which is a 450 billion pension fund, for example, would be part of the investors.

Their application with Seattle was put on hold (and not denied) because they couldn’t raise the $500 million. They tried to solicit other investors but could not get any.

The problem for QC is not the available fans or the arena. It’s corporate backing. There isn’t enough there in the NHL’s eyes.

 

[Essenege]

Their application with Seattle was put on hold (and not denied) because they couldn’t raise the $500 million. They tried to solicit other investors but could not get any.

The problem for QC is not the available fans or the arena. It’s corporate backing. There isn’t enough there in the NHL’s eyes.

Source on the bolded? I just don’t think it’s true.

 

[dj4aces]

View attachment 814923

I don't see an average attendance under 10k at all.

Sorry, top of the poll was cut off. The numbers come from HockeyDB.com.

In addition to this, the season the Flames drew the least number of fans, 1979-1980, that number was still (barely) above 10k, and only because fans realized the team was probably leaving due to an owner going broke in the real estate market crash.

 

[New Jersey Devil]

...because they might be getting it back?

You're not sure?


It's ridiculous that a team leaves & then comes back! The team might as well stay where they are!

 

[Beau Knows]

You're not sure?

No, we're not sure...it's looking like a possibility. But it might not happen at all.

It's ridiculous that a team leaves & then comes back! The team might as well stay where they are!

That's not at all what the reporting is suggesting would happen The Jets aren't moving back, an expansion would bring another team to Atlanta.

 

[New Jersey Devil]

That's not at all what the reporting is suggesting would happen The Jets aren't moving back, an expansion would bring another team to Atlanta.

What I meant to say was a city losing a team and then gets another team very shortly after that!

 

[Armourboy]

Happy for fans in the Atlanta area, I know we have several on the Preds boards.

Look I lived in Atlanta when the Thrashers were there, and I gave a dig for years that Atlanta was where hockey went to die because you didn't even know it existed. Looking back now and knowing the situation, I think it's bit wrong to put the blame on the fans or the city, they essentially got held hostage by a bad owner. I mean he did so much advertising you wouldn't even know an NHL teams existed in the city.

Atlanta is a market that can do well, but first you gotta have an owner that is willing to at least try and do well with it.

 

[TheLegend]

Source on the bolded? I just don’t think it’s true.

The correct term I should have used was “deferred”. I haven’t watched this but Bettman explains it…

 

[AintLifeGrand]

SLC has to go through their own process. If they get a team, good for them.

But Atlanta is the 16th highest GDP of a metro area on the planet. Top 3 fastest growing large metro area in the US. It’s dumb that there’s not a team here (or in Houston) already. The NHL and the owners know this and they’re going to want to fix it regardless of anything else.

Other than Atlanta, Salt Lake City is the locale where I have lived the longest (bc of skiing, not Mormonism)

Salt Lake City has a tenuous long term outlook as a city for environmental reasons

While I loved living there, I am glad to have left when I did

The SW mega drought has decimated the Great Salt Lake. This drought coupled with rapid population growth is going to lead to a reckoning as the water provided by the Wastach's Snowpack is already insufficient to replenish the Great Salt Lake, Support Agriculture (a huge part of Utah’s economy) and provide adequate drinking water for a rapidly growing metropolis.

- The exposed/dried lake bed is starting to mix with toxic particulates from heavy industry that proliferates on the west side of town

As the lakebed becomes exposed, toxic dust mixed with metals and metalloids like antimony, copper, zirconium and arsenic become a problem, per Live Science. The dust could lead to soil degradation and snow melt, as well as raise residents’ risk of respiratory conditions, heart disease, lung disease and cancers.

Drying Great Salt Lake Could Expose Millions to Toxic Arsenic-Laced Dust

The largest saline lake in North America is on track to collapse within five years, a new report finds

www.smithsonianmag.com

Sadly, I am not bullish on the long term viability of SLC in the sense that we know it.

The only solutions have been to pray that the abnormally cold/wet winters of the 2nd half of the 20th century return or a pipeline from the Pacific to dump into the Great Salt Lake (unrealistic).

 

[dj4aces]

The correct term I should have used was “deferred”. I haven’t watched this but Bettman explains it…

Very quick-and-dirty Cliffs Notes:

* Unbalanced conferences (16 East, 15 West)
* Things outside the group's control (Fluctuations in currency value at the time)

He didn't mention not having the money though, so if that was a factor, I suppose we may never know for sure.

It makes sense.

The SW mega drought has decimated the great salt lake. This drought coupled with rapid population growth is going to lead to a reckoning as the water provided by the Wastach's Snowpack is already insufficient to replenish the Great Salt Lake, Support Agriculture (a huge part of Utah’s economy) and provide adequate drinking water for a rapidly growing metropolis.

From what I've read, they're also constructing golf courses/country clubs in the state like there's no tomorrow. Since those things require a not insignificant amount of water to maintain, I can't imagine that's helping things.

The only solutions have been to pray that the abnormally cold/wet winters of the 2nd half of the 20th century return or a pipeline from the Pacific to dump into the Great Salt Lake (unrealistic).

Proposal: All those folks crying about expansion in general, to Atlanta specifically, about the Coyotes playing in a 4600-person barn, all of 'em can simply bottle those tears and send them to Utah to be dumped into the late. With all the crying I see here and on Twitter, it should be plenty to replenish the lake!

 

[VivaLasVegas]

Peladeau himself seems to be a lightning rod. Quebec Nordiques: NHL urged to avoid 'unfit' Pierre Karl Péladeau

 

[TheLegend]

Very quick-and-dirty Cliffs Notes:

* Unbalanced conferences (16 East, 15 West)
* Things outside the group's control (Fluctuations in currency value at the time)

He didn't mention not having the money though, so if that was a factor, I suppose we may never know for sure.

It makes sense.

They were actively persuing financial partners…..

Quebecor wants partners in NHL team bid – Sportsnet.ca

The CDN$ was horridly low at the time which did not help.

From what I've read, they're also constructing golf courses/country clubs in the state like there's no tomorrow. Since those things require a not insignificant amount of water to maintain, I can't imagine that's helping things.


Proposal: All those folks crying about expansion in general, to Atlanta specifically, about the Coyotes playing in a 4600-person barn, all of 'em can simply bottle those tears and send them to Utah to be dumped into the late. With all the crying I see here and on Twitter, it should be plenty to replenish the lake!

Here’s the thing the NHL will have to consider…

What if the Olympics bid tanks or they can’t come up with the funds for a new arena?? As it is it’s for 2034 which is 11 years away and a lot can change in that time.

The Jazz arena can only seat around 12-13k for hockey and that’s not going work long term for the league.

 

[dj4aces]

They were actively persuing financial partners…..

Quebecor wants partners in NHL team bid – Sportsnet.ca

The CDN$ was horridly low at the time which did not help.

Aye. Bettman said in the video it was down to 68 cents to the dollar. I do remember seeing the link about Quebecor, just never saw anything (and haven't looked, admittedly) that said they were unable to find the partners and/or raise the money.

Here’s the thing the NHL will have to consider…

What if the Olympics bid tanks or they can’t come up with the funds for a new arena?? As it is it’s for 2034 which is 11 years away and a lot can change in that time.

The Jazz arena can only seat around 12-13k for hockey and that’s not going work long term for the league.

Absolutely some factors to consider. Is planned Smith arena in Draper supposed to double as the arena for the Olympics too?

Perhaps there's more moving parts to the SLC bid than I thought. A 14k barn (the capacity for hockey in the Delta Center listed on Wikipedia) doesn't sound great in the long term.

 

[AintLifeGrand]

Aye. Bettman said in the video it was down to 68 cents to the dollar. I do remember seeing the link about Quebecor, just never saw anything (and haven't looked, admittedly) that said they were unable to find the partners and/or raise the money.



Absolutely some factors to consider. Is planned Smith arena in Draper supposed to double as the arena for the Olympics too?

Perhaps there's more moving parts to the SLC bid than I thought. A 14k barn (the capacity for hockey in the Delta Center listed on Wikipedia) doesn't sound great in the long term.

The Delta Center is getting a bit long in the teeth. I went there last for a Jazz game last year and its going to need a major overhaul at minimum.

I went to the annual Kings Preseason game there a few years and the Sightlines , even with the retracted seats behind the net , are worse than the Barclays Center.

While 14,000 people is better than the Coyotes situation, it is not ideal.

I think SLC would do a good job supporting the team, but I don't think they should take precedence over Atlanta, Houston, QC.

 

[rea]

No, that was your original incorrect suggestion and further the NHL does not pick from any list.

The list is of suitors who present a bid thus gojng through a voting process by the governors of every team.

Quote pulled from an article from the globe and mail dating back when Vegas' bid was accepted

"The nine governors, led by board chairman Jeremy Jacobs of the Boston Bruins, decided it was, according to many media reports. The entire 30-team board of governors will formally vote to admit Las Vegas at their meeting on June 22. A two-thirds majority of the 30 teams is needed to approve any expansion but NHL tradition is the full board rubber-stamps any recommendation from the executive committee.

This means the Quebec City bid, backed by media giant Quebecor, will be kept on the sidelines, with relocation of an existing franchise being its best route into the league, according to multiple sources"

So yes, they do vote and decide from bids to determine which to expand to

Also upon further looking back, it seems you are saying the same thing as I. When I said suitors, that implies bids from specific entities that check off all the proper boxes to shoot a proposal. Sorry if it wasn't understood

 

[jbeck5]

Which other Atlanta area arena are you suggesting could have hosted an NHL team, even temporarily? Your question gets right to the heart of why Atlanta Spirit was evil. No such other local option existed, and they would not let any new Thrashers buyer use their arena* because they saw hockey as competition for the Hawks entertainment dollar.

*Actually, that's not fully accurate. Atlanta Spirit was willing to offer a new owner the chance to rent the facility for games, but they, as the owners of the building, insisted as a lease condition that they would keep all money on parking, concessions, souvenirs, etc. It was a 100% poison pill. The new owner could not make any game-day revenue from anything other than the ticket sales alone, which is a non-starter. That's why they were effectively evicted.

I guess you'd think there would be a university or junior or AHL/ECHL/ etc within an hour or two that could sit 5k.

If there isn't, would that go against the notion that Georgia region supports hockey?

 

[nhlfan79]

I guess you'd think there would be a university or junior or AHL/ECHL/ etc within an hour or two that could sit 5k.

If there isn't, would that go against the notion that Georgia region supports hockey?

There's an ECHL arena in the northeast suburbs that seats 10,000 for hockey. However, it already had an anchor tenant, the Gwinnett Gladiators, who were the Thrashers ECHL affiliate at the time. While it's a perfectly serviceable arena, it lacks many of the modern amenities of a major NHL/NBA arena. Even still, prior to the wild success of The Battery and the Braves' move to the suburbs, there was zero rationale for spending hundreds of millions of dollars finding a suitable location for, and then building, a second elite-level arena in the Atlanta metro area.

 

[Essenege]

The correct term I should have used was “deferred”. I haven’t watched this but Bettman explains it…

Ok, it was not about the expansion fees. It was about the NHL being scared of the revenue generating potential of Quebec because local revenues are in CAD. And conference imbalances. The group was ready to go in spite of the weakens CAD.

It goes without question though that Quebec was extremely unlucky with the timing of the crude oil/CAD collapse.

 

[dj4aces]

Ok, it was not about the expansion fees. It was about the NHL being scared of the revenue generating potential of Quebec because local revenues are in CAD. And conference imbalances. The group was ready to go in spite of the weakens CAD.

It goes without question though that Quebec was extremely unlucky with the timing of the crude oil/CAD collapse.

I think there's still debate about whether the group was truly "ready to go", given the news story @TheLegend linked saying Quebecor was seeking investors (namely, were those investors found in time?). I mean, in the end, it didn't matter because the bid was always going to give the league cold feet with the CAD valuation and conference imbalance issues, but if they actually had the investors, QC looks more promising for this upcoming round of expansion IMO.

 

[bb_fan]

cool.

An AHL team in every city now.....

 

[tucker3434]

I guess you'd think there would be a university or junior or AHL/ECHL/ etc within an hour or two that could sit 5k.

If there isn't, would that go against the notion that Georgia region supports hockey?

They could’ve. It was the uncertainty of what comes after that prevented it from happening. You’d be a brand new owner in the exact same situation as the Yotes are in now, trying to find a permanent home with no real guarantee that the voters would go for it. They could spend two years, picking a site, putting together a plan, having studies done, running through red tape, all for it to die at the vote. Then you’re back to square one. It’s a risky way to spend a couple hundred million dollars.

 

[5 Minute Major]

The Hockey Guy made a video where we got 4 new teams. Salt Lake City in the West, Houston in the Central, Atlanta in the Metro, and Quebec City in the Atlantic. I would support that idea if that's how it came about.

36 teams.

We would be at the point where an 80:year old person would see multiple NhL teams never win a Cup in their lifetime.

What fun is that if you’re a fan of one of those teams?

 

[AtlantaWhaler]

36 teams.

We would be at the point where an 80:year old person would see multiple NhL teams never win a Cup in their lifetime.

What fun is that if you’re a fan of one of those teams?

I’m an Atlanta sports fan. You get used to it.

 

[hangman005]

36 teams.

We would be at the point where an 80:year old person would see multiple NhL teams never win a Cup in their lifetime.

What fun is that if you’re a fan of one of those teams?

If your a masochist I imagine lots.