NHL to Atlanta odds just increased significantly

[nhlfan79]

2. I'm betting the league learned from the horror show that was Atlanta Spirit LLC. In fact, I'd put money on it. I believe (but have no evidence to support the belief) the league has a far more robust vetting process, and I'm also willing to bet any known and serious ownership groups have had some preliminary vetting done by the league's front office and BoG. It's smart business for them to know who they're getting into bed with, after all. In that way, I don't think they really knew who Atlanta Spirit was until after the ownership transfer was approved by both leagues and the sale finalized.

My take is that, in addition to more stringent due diligence, the current price tag for expansion will deter anyone who's not absolutely serious about trying to do it right.

 

[BB79]

The NHL has adopted the Dollar General growth method. There will be an NHL team on every block within 6 years.

Someone call Gary for me. I'd like to put a team on Bermuda...I shouldn't kid, it'll probably happen with the way were going. Let's put another 32 teams in, the 2 leagues can play for the Stanley Cup against each other in the playoffs

 

[hangman005]

My take is that, in addition to more stringent due diligence, the current price tag for expansion will deter anyone who's not absolutely serious about trying to do it right.

John Spano is dissappointed he really wanted to try again

 

[rea]

The NHL does not pick cities for expansion. Instead, owner groups with arena deals and a $1 billion submit an application from wherever they are located. Why is this so hard to comprehend?

The league picks from a list of potential suitors, or are you implying that there is a singular one and all other cities are speculation?

 

[rea]

“Deserve” doesn’t matter. Money matters. Atlanta has it.

So does Utah, and have the facilities, and has high interest. You think no other city has money to back it or something?

 

[rea]

The league approved Spirit as owners because they flat out lied to the league during the approval process about their intentions to immediately sell the team for relocation. This is all in sworn court documents that only came out years later when the owners were suing each other (about the valuation of buying out their biggest partner). Not only that, but the NBA approved them as owners first, so it would've been practically impossible for the NHL to have killed the whole deal and thrown two leagues into chaos by rejecting it at the last step. And again, *at that time*, they had no apparent reason to reject them.

Vancouver ownership did this and split the two entities in sales. It isn't practically impossible, there is literally evidence of it happening

While you're at it, go look up David McDavid. He should've been the rightful owner had he not gotten totally hosed by AOL-Time Warner (he won hundreds of millions of dollars in damages after suing for breach of contract to sell the teams to him and wrongfully disclosing his private financial information to Spirit so they could make their sweetheart, eleventh hour bid). Had his deal gone through, as it should have, this wouldn't even be a topic of conversation. The Thrashers would be celebrating their 25th anniversary this coming season.

If I recall correctly vancouver had the same issues with ownership sale, when Aquilini and gaglardi had deals in place to partner and buy Canucks. This also lead to a legal battle which aquilini won.

Gaglardi turned around and bought the stars. Again, such things do happen..

In truth, the league itself bears a huge measure of blame for their lack of due diligence in vetting Spirit's intentions.

Name one other instance in history where an NHL team was bought by an ownership group that never even wanted it, even from day one? Until you can, Atlanta has no comparison to other markets that "failed." What happened here is literally unprecedented.

And here is where it all becomes real. You agree the league bears the burden of such a decision. Again, they could've written up in the sale that it was impossible for whoever owned the team to relocate. And no I can't name an instance. I can state an instance of straight lies too with a team about relocation, and that is vancouver grizzlies.
Mccaw group sold to Laurie w the promise of keeping team in bc. He even came out to a game and said it verbally to the world. He ended up moving it end of year.

This shit happens, it's on the league that allowed it without provisions. Again, there have been tons of bs owners in league but they've worked to keep teams where they are. Look at how Ottawa was run for years under melnyk and his trying to strongarm a new arena thru tax dollars while stripping his team of salary and threatening relocation. Ask their fan base the suffering theyve gone through.

Again, I'm sorry that atl had shitty circumstances, and if they get another shot it's not going to make me lose any sleep. They're welcome to it. All I stated in all of these debates with whoever is responding to me, is if there are other viable options that have not had a shot, why not try a change of pace, instead of going back to this yet?

If phoenix relocate, and all of a sudden down the road there is a push to send something back there, do you feel they should get it over another city that could dish the same amount for expansion fees and all things considered equal?

 

[tucker3434]

So does Utah, and have the facilities, and has high interest. You think no other city has money to back it or something?

SLC has to go through their own process. If they get a team, good for them.

But Atlanta is the 16th highest GDP of a metro area on the planet. Top 3 fastest growing large metro area in the US. It’s dumb that there’s not a team here (or in Houston) already. The NHL and the owners know this and they’re going to want to fix it regardless of anything else.

 

[AtlantaWhaler]

Again, I'm sorry that atl had shitty circumstances, and if they get another shot it's not going to make me lose any sleep. They're welcome to it. All I stated in all of these debates with whoever is responding to me, is if there are other viable options that have not had a shot, why not try a change of pace, instead of going back to this yet?

Well, in Atlanta's case, so much has happened and changed in the time the Thrashers left (never mind the Flames). The population has grown by over 1.5 million people in that time. The corporate presence has also grown. Google, Microsoft, Mercedes, State Farm and Norfolk Southern has put HQ's here (some regional). Then, for location, the Braves new stadium has presented a good case study for having an entertainment district in the burbs vs. an arena in the heart of the city. It's been a huge success.

 

[rea]

Well, in Atlanta's case, so much has happened and changed in the time the Thrashers left (never mind the Flames). The population has grown by over 1.5 million people in that time. The corporate presence has also grown. Google, Microsoft, Mercedes, State Farm and Norfolk Southern has put HQ's here (some regional). Then, for location, the Braves new stadium has presented a good case study for having an entertainment district in the burbs vs. an arena in the heart of the city. It's been a huge success.

I can acknowledge this. Texas and Florida have grown faster if statistics are correct, and Texas' corporate growth, and appeal has had major shift in pop growth due to relocation by Americans.

Again, all the power to Georgia, if you get a team , I'm just not backing down from my statement that, if the ability is there from other cities to give the exact same dollar value and situation with arena etc that Georgia can give, why can't it be accepted that I feel it should go somewhere new to try before them? I didn't ever outright say they shouldn't get it, I just think that growth and viability does not have all roads leading to that one destination.

 

[jbeck5]

You literally said "why didn't someone just pay like 500m to keep them there?"

If you can't figure out why the price has changed it's because you're just intentionally forgetting about other expansion teams and costs associated.

That 500 million quote was the estimated cost of the trashers and an arena being built. You misunderstood.

The other expansion teams are irrelevant to whether someone wants to have their team in Atlanta or not.

Before, no one was even willing to buy a team for $170M + the cost of an arena(estimated 500m) and keep it in Atlanta. Now someone is willing to pay 2-3 times that price to have a team and arena in Atlanta?

Why is hockey viable in Atlanta at a cost of 2B but not 500b?

 

[AtlantaWhaler]

I can acknowledge this. Texas and Florida have grown faster if statistics are correct, and Texas' corporate growth, and appeal has had major shift in pop growth due to relocation by Americans.

Again, all the power to Georgia, if you get a team , I'm just not backing down from my statement that, if the ability is there from other cities to give the exact same dollar value and situation with arena etc that Georgia can give, why can't it be accepted that I feel it should go somewhere new to try before them? I didn't ever outright say they shouldn't get it, I just think that growth and viability does not have all roads leading to that one destination.

Well, Texas and Florida do already have teams.

Nobody is saying that you can't feel that teams go somewhere new. Just giving you a case for why Atlanta should be considered. It's basically grown by an entire city just in the last 15 years.

Also, I know you realize that it's all about the money, but as of now, all I've heard about is SLC and Atlanta having named owners in place who is meeting with the NHL about expansion.

 

[Essenege]

Well then instead of overpaying for a TV deal, Quebecor should have paid the $500 million expansion fee and they would have come in withR Seattle.

Hell they could do it now…. but the price just keeps going up and all we’re hearing is a lot of blustering.

They submitted the project for each expansion but were denied the opportunity. Money wasn’t the problem, although at 1 billion, we’ll have to see.

Times have change, large pension funds are looking to get a slice of the pie in that kind of alternative investment for diversification purposes, so I’m not sure you need the local multi-billionaire. CDPQ which is a 450 billion pension fund, for example, would be part of the investors.

 

[nhlfan79]

Well, in Atlanta's case, so much has happened and changed in the time the Thrashers left (never mind the Flames). The population has grown by over 1.5 million people in that time. The corporate presence has also grown. Google, Microsoft, Mercedes, State Farm and Norfolk Southern has put HQ's here (some regional). Then, for location, the Braves new stadium has presented a good case study for having an entertainment district in the burbs vs. an arena in the heart of the city. It's been a huge success.

And another thing that's changed recently? We've now got our first couple of Tim Hortons, too. I'm noshing on Timbits right this very moment.

 

[GermanRocket7]

So, when are we officially expanding to Europe for an "NHL Europe" league with teams in England, France, Germany, Switzerland, Austria, Denmark, Norway, Sweden, Finland, Czechia and Slovakia?

So that we can have an even more diluted level of play and in the end have an "NHL North America" champion battling off an "NHL Europe" champion in a seven-game series.

You know, more $$$, less interest, less time for rest for the players - what could possibly go wrong, AIR?

 

[cowboy82nd]

That 500 million quote was the estimated cost of the trashers and an arena being built. You misunderstood.

The other expansion teams are irrelevant to whether someone wants to have their team in Atlanta or not.

Before, no one was even willing to buy a team for $170M + the cost of an arena(estimated 500m) and keep it in Atlanta. Now someone is willing to pay 2-3 times that price to have a team and arena in Atlanta?

Why is hockey viable in Atlanta at a cost of 2B but not 500b?

We had a couple of local ownership groups willing to buy the Thrasher (including one with Tom Glavine the Atlanta Braves pitcher who was also drafted by the L.A. King in the 1984 draft). But the problem with that is they had no place to play while an arena was being built.

 

[Beau Knows]

You're happy for the fans who lost their team? Why?

...because they might be getting it back?

 

[VivaLasVegas]

The league picks from a list of potential suitors, or are you implying that there is a singular one and all other cities are speculation?

No, that was your original incorrect suggestion and further the NHL does not pick from any list.

 

[yrrebbor]

Why on earth would the NHL go through 10K max attendance per game a third time around?

 

[VivaLasVegas]

Why on earth would the NHL go through 10K max attendance per game a third time around?

The NHL gets $1 billion up front and the only ones who can lose money are the new owners and maybe the city also if it participates in a stadium deal.

 

[jbeck5]

We had a couple of local ownership groups willing to buy the Thrasher (including one with Tom Glavine the Atlanta Braves pitcher who was also drafted by the L.A. King in the 1984 draft). But the problem with that is they had no place to play while an arena was being built.

I don't want to be annoying by repeating myself, but the question then becomes

"Why didn't they just play them out of a junior or minor league or college arena for a couple years while they build their arena?"

We see Arizona playing out of a college arena.

We saw the sens play out of a junior arena until their current arena was built. I think they played there for 3 seasons.

The NHL has allowed it beforehand and since...so that makes me curious.

 

[AtlantaWhaler]

Why on earth would the NHL go through 10K max attendance per game a third time around?

That's never happened before...

 

[nhlfan79]

I don't want to be annoying by repeating myself, but the question then becomes

"Why didn't they just play them out of a junior or minor league or college arena for a couple years while they build their arena?"

We see Arizona playing out of a college arena.

We saw the sens play out of a junior arena until their current arena was built. I think they played there for 3 seasons.

The NHL has allowed it beforehand and since...so that makes me curious.

Which other Atlanta area arena are you suggesting could have hosted an NHL team, even temporarily? Your question gets right to the heart of why Atlanta Spirit was evil. No such other local option existed, and they would not let any new Thrashers buyer use their arena* because they saw hockey as competition for the Hawks entertainment dollar.

*Actually, that's not fully accurate. Atlanta Spirit was willing to offer a new owner the chance to rent the facility for games, but they, as the owners of the building, insisted as a lease condition that they would keep all money on parking, concessions, souvenirs, etc. It was a 100% poison pill. The new owner could not make any game-day revenue from anything other than the ticket sales alone, which is a non-starter. That's why they were effectively evicted.

 

[Fishy McScales]

Why on earth would the NHL go through 10K max attendance per game a third time around?

You're regurgitating a myth you've seen others post.

 

[cowboy82nd]

Why on earth would the NHL go through 10K max attendance per game a third time around?

I don't see an average attendance under 10k at all.

Sorry, top of the poll was cut off. The numbers come from HockeyDB.com.

 

[TheLegend]

So does Utah, and have the facilities, and has high interest. You think no other city has money to back it or something?

Smith in SLC has an alterior motive.

SLC is bidding on a Winter Olympics and he wants the get a new barn for his NBA franchise. So by adding an NHL franchise it increases the chances of getting one built on the public dime.