NHL to Atlanta odds just increased significantly

[AtlantaWhaler]

Their last arena only sat 16k. Their current only seats 17k. I'm guessing the next arena will be maybe 18k?


They had two NHL franchises and both left within ten years due to a lack of support. In case you weren't aware. You seem to not acknowledge the failures.

You were saying that Atlanta is a bad sports town. Still trying to figure out why. Losing a team because the owner went bankrupt 45 years ago isn’t why.

 

[kingsholygrail]

You were saying that Atlanta is a bad sports town. Still trying to figure out why. Losing a team because the owner went bankrupt 45 years ago isn’t why.

They lost two NHL teams. Why do you think they would be good for a third?

 

[Dr Pepper]

I'd much rather see thr NHL explore a new market like Houston or SLC rather than return to Atlanta for a third kick at the can.

Been saying for years they should've at least considered moving Arizona across the border to a neighboring state even temporarily. Much better than their ham-fisted "we'll play in a college arena because hey, this market is gonna work, we promise" approach.

 

[PunchImlach is Alive]

Probably one of the most underrated hockey stats right now is arena capacity. Really makes me upset when owners don't make millions off the box office. Takes away from the game and makes me not want to watch it.

 

[AtlantaWhaler]

They lost two NHL teams. Why do you think they would be good for a third?

Now, in addition to making things up, you forgot how to read through a thread? Copy/paste from a few pages ago…

First off, ownership has a ton to do with putting butts in the seats. Imagine if the owners of your favorite team outwardly admits they don't want them, then they all sue each other and keeps the team near the cap floor. Then, in turn, over their entire existence as a team, makes the playoffs only one time and never won a game.

Second, Atlanta has changed a TON. Since the Thrashers moved in 2011, the Atlanta MSA has grown by about 1.5 million people, and it continues to grow. It's annual growth rate over the last 30 years is a little over 2%. With the people, the corporations (and their wallets) have followed. Since 2011, Mercedes, Norfolk Southern, Microsoft, Google, Papa Johns and others have planted a hub or HQ here. It's the 3rd largest home to Fortune 500 HQ's in the US. Atlanta has leaped over Philly to be the 8th largest market in the US and is on pace to jump over DC in the next 5-10 years.

Third, the fans supporting the other teams provides a good case study for a potential NHL team. Since the Braves moved to the burbs, their attendance has gone up. Since the Thrashers moved, the Hawks (who continues to suck) attendance has been generally sellouts. The MLS team has set soccer attendance records and US Soccer moved their HQ here. College football continues to be huge and the NCAA moved the CFB Hall of Fame here.

If I'm some rich billionaire or work with the NHL, I'd want to be a part of all that.

 

[kingsholygrail]

Now, in addition to making things up, you forgot how to read through a thread? Copy/paste from a few pages ago…

First off, ownership has a ton to do with putting butts in the seats. Imagine if the owners of your favorite team outwardly admits they don't want them, then they all sue each other and keeps the team near the cap floor. Then, in turn, over their entire existence as a team, makes the playoffs only one time and never won a game.

Second, Atlanta has changed a TON. Since the Thrashers moved in 2011, the Atlanta MSA has grown by about 1.5 million people, and it continues to grow. It's annual growth rate over the last 30 years is a little over 2%. With the people, the corporations (and their wallets) have followed. Since 2011, Mercedes, Norfolk Southern, Microsoft, Google, Papa Johns and others have planted a hub or HQ here. It's the 3rd largest home to Fortune 500 HQ's in the US. Atlanta has leaped over Philly to be the 8th largest market in the US and is on pace to jump over DC in the next 5-10 years.

Third, the fans supporting the other teams provides a good case study for a potential NHL team. Since the Braves moved to the burbs, their attendance has gone up. Since the Thrashers moved, the Hawks (who continues to suck) attendance has been generally sellouts. The MLS team has set soccer attendance records and US Soccer moved their HQ here. College football continues to be huge and the NCAA moved the CFB Hall of Fame here.

If I'm some rich billionaire or work with the NHL, I'd want to be a part of all that.

Where's the demand for an NHL franchise in Atlanta? HFBoards? There has to be demand there in the first place for any of that to even matter.

 

[dj4aces]

Where's the demand for an NHL franchise in Atlanta? HFBoards? There has to be demand there in the first place for any of that to even matter.

The majority of hockey fans in the Atlanta metropolitan area are located north of the city, across an area that includes Cobb, Cherokee, Fulton, Forsyth, Gwinnett, and Hall counties. Atlanta is home to one of the largest rec leagues in the country by participation, complete with a waiting list.

The real question is, how come you can't use Google to find these things for yourself?

 

[PunchImlach is Alive]

They lost two NHL teams. Why do you think they would be good for a third?

May seem crazy but Atlanta probably didn't freeze in time for 13 years and by doing a google search, I'm able to see that the previous owner is not involved

 

[kingsholygrail]

Because the information was so spoon fed to you that I learned it backwards just trying to figure out if you're trolling on purpose or just managing to come off that way.

What is with your militant rage about another city getting an NHL franchise just because some f***ed up situations broke their last arrangement? On top of all the growth you've been made aware of, why are you so personally offended by the idea?

I'm not raging at all nor am I offended. I just think other cities should be considered before Atlanta because they've already failed twice to support a team. We already have the Coyotes. We don't need another one. Unless perhaps if they're willing to take the Coyotes.

And yes, I know they don't want the Coyotes. They want the Vegas treatment, though no one is ever getting the Vegas treatment again.

 

[AKL]

I just think other cities should be considered before Atlanta because they've already failed twice to support a team.

I think it's been well established at this point that the owners failed those teams, not the community.

 

[kingsholygrail]

I think it's been well established at this point that the owners failed those teams, not the community.

But this third owner isn't going to have the same problem somehow?

 

[AKL]

But this third owner isn't going to have the same problem somehow?

Well unless the third owner's real estate holdings suddenly go pear shaped, or the third owner (who's paying a billion dollars for this franchise) suddenly decides he only wants the arena and the basketball team and has no interest in having a hockey team, no, the third owner isn't going to have the same problem.

 

[HTFN]

Well unless the third owner's real estate holdings suddenly go pear shaped, or the third owner (who's paying a billion dollars for this franchise) suddenly decides he only wants the arena and the basketball team and has no interest in having a hockey team, no, the third owner isn't going to have the same problem.

lol this, it's been spelled out over and over.

Goddamn, how is this where this thread is right now?

 

[Deep Blue Metallic]

If nothing else, this thread has proven to me that Atlanta's reputation of not supporting its sports teams is a complete myth.

Even the Falcons were at 98% of capacity this year, while missing the playoffs for a 6th straight season.

 

[kingsholygrail]

Well unless the third owner's real estate holdings suddenly go pear shaped, or the third owner (who's paying a billion dollars for this franchise) suddenly decides he only wants the arena and the basketball team and has no interest in having a hockey team, no, the third owner isn't going to have the same problem.

Or he gets in trouble with the Feds and has to sell the team.

 

[AKL]

Or he gets in trouble with the Feds and has to sell the team.

Yeah or if his minority owner plots to overthrow him by hiring some forest fairies to kidnap him and drag him off into their realm and since they can't locate him he's forced to forfeit ownership of the team to aforementioned minority owner who moves them to Nunavut.

 

[AKL]

Or the team sucks and no one shows up to the games and they get moved to Phoenix after the Coyotes leave to Utah.

Which is likely because, as you pointed out, the Hawks only sell out 100% of their arena, and not 200%.

 

[kingsholygrail]

Which is likely because, as you pointed out, the Hawks only sell out 100% of their arena, and not 200%.

The Coyotes sell out their games too. Doesn't mean much.

 

[dj4aces]

But this third owner isn't going to have the same problem somehow?

That's called an unknown variable.

If I'm part of a group paying north of $1bn to build an mixed-use development with a ~19k seat arena as its centerpiece, plus another $1bn for a NHL franchise, I'm goind to do everything in my power to ensure its success. If I have no friggin' clue what the hell I'm doing, I'm going to surround myself with people who do. But there's no way I'm the prospective owner, or anyone involved in their group.

No matter how much money an owner puts up, or how committed they say they are, there's always a chance they're not the type of person they claim to be. But the simple fact here is, the quality of ownership is well outside fan control. The fans in a market don't choose the team's owner.

 

[AKL]

The Coyotes sell out their games too. Doesn't mean much.

And around and around we go

 

[GreenHornet]

lol this, it's been spelled out over and over.

Goddamn, how is this where this thread is right now?

What we've seen here the last three pages or so is a variation of a classic debating tactic known as Gish galloping. In this case, instead of using an overwhelming number of specious or outright false arguments, the tedious troll from California is using multiple variations on two basic specious or outright false arguments (in this case, Atlanta's hockey history and it's current state as a sports town) and floods this thread with them.

Gish gallop - Wikipedia.

 

[kingsholygrail]

That's called an unknown variable.

If I'm part of a group paying north of $1bn to build an mixed-use development with a ~19k seat arena as its centerpiece, plus another $1bn for a NHL franchise, I'm goind to do everything in my power to ensure its success. If I have no friggin' clue what the hell I'm doing, I'm going to surround myself with people who do. But there's no way I'm the prospective owner, or anyone involved in their group.

No matter how much money an owner puts up, or how committed they say they are, there's always a chance they're not the type of person they claim to be. But the simple fact here is, the quality of ownership is well outside fan control. The fans in a market don't choose the team's owner.

That's why I asked about demand.

And around and around we go

If you're going to repeat points, I'll repeat counterpoints. Or we can just agree to drop it. I've been to a lot of "sell out" games for the Kings where the lower bowl was largely empty.

 

[AKL]

If you're going to repeat points, I'll repeat counterpoints. Or we can just agree to drop it. I've been to a lot of "sell out" games for the Kings where the lower bowl was largely empty.

Move the Kings, Los Angeles doesn't support hockey

 

[HTFN]

Move the Kings, Los Angeles doesn't support hockey

must be true, false sellout rates, absolute sham of a team, get them out of California ASAP.

 

[kingsholygrail]

Move the Kings, Los Angeles doesn't support hockey

Los Angeles doesn't support hockey, really. There's just a really dedicated core group of fans. But they don't make headlines really unless a coach gets fired.