NHL to Atlanta odds just increased significantly

[ACC1224]

Expansion is inevitable, better Atlanta, Salt Lake, etc. than Europe

 

[rea]

Toronto yes, Vancouver no.

You’ll never see a second team in Vancouver or the surrounding area

100% no way greater vancouver region could support 2 teams. An NBA team, maybe, even that is highly suspect with the fairweather fans. This city is a Canucks town and in lean years they couldn't fill season tickets. Support for a 2nd team wouldn't work at this point in time for sure, And honestly there is no reason to even humor such an idea.

Toronto could yes, but again, for growth and business aspect, why? You see California with 3 teams, and besides la, sj and Anaheim struggle w market valuation and revenue, near bottom of league. NY area has 3 teams, and even with Buffalo longstanding expansion cousins w yvr, based on Forbes, they are 2nd last in valuation.

If you're gonna grow the league, mb look at new regions. don't go back right away to a place that didn't succeed multiple times, don't try to over stretch a market that already has franchise.

 

[AtlantaWhaler]

Oh? Why not?

I'd say that Toronto can actually support around 10 NHL teams. Or is Tampere that much more of a hockey town than Toronto? Maybe I should start referring to Tampere as the mecca of hockey.

So imagine 10 teams in Toronto, full sellout arenas. Lots of local rivalries.

Now compare that to 10 random teams in USA in markets where no one cares about hockey, such as Arizona and Atlanta. How is that the superior decision?

I'm sure you have been all about the expansion to the southern US, so this should come as no surprise. Florida, Dallas, Tampa, and Carolina are all in the top-10 attendance this season and Nashville would be, but their arena size is just a tad small. They're at 100% compacity. Toronto already has a team and does quite well.

 

[AtlantaWhaler]

 

[AtlantaWhaler]

Members of Forsyth County development 'The Gathering' meet with NHL about potential team

The new ownership group for the potential NHL team would be Krause Sports and Entertainment.

 

[Rob Brown]

The Hockey Guy made a video where we got 4 new teams. Salt Lake City in the West, Houston in the Central, Atlanta in the Metro, and Quebec City in the Atlantic. I would support that idea if that's how it came about.

Should probably overhaul them in general, as personally I think a team in Atlanta should be in the same division as the two Florida teams.

 

[FlyguyOX]

Atlanta's main demographic is more into the NBA, MLB and NFL. You'd probably have initial success since the team will be the shiny new toy but once that shine is gone you'll be seeing another move by Atlanta to another market. Doesn't matter how big the city is, if no one cares about hockey then it won't work.

Well that’s pretty racist, and untrue. You probably would’ve thought the same thing about the MLS team I assume, but that team shattered world attendance records

 

[AtlantaWhaler]

Expansion is inevitable, better Atlanta, Salt Lake, etc. than Europe

Agreed. Looking at your pic reminds me that the Jags are having yet another game in London next year. Looking like it's inevitable at this point.

 

[FlyguyOX]

The NHL didn't pick those cities. A rich billionaire did. The NHL didn't pick Sunrise over downtown Miami. A rich billionaire (getting a ton of incentives) did.

I'm not sure where to go with the rest of the post. The Braves moved to Cobb County and has been among the top teams for attendance over the last several years. They based the move (aside from tax incentives and available land) on location of their ticket purchasers. My guess is that the Gathering is based on similar data. Not sure.

It’s also based on closeness to nearby youth hockey programs/ice rinks

 

[Ceremony]

I'm not reading 11 pages but if odds increase it means something is less likely, not more.

 

[FlyguyOX]

I’m guessing you don’t live here. It’s South Forsyth fyi. There are so many people and families in this area. You can drive forever with well do homes and businesses. I moved from the suburbs of Philly and there are more hockey fans in these suburbs than Philly. I’ll be buying season tickets asap. I really think success is the only outcome.

Yo!!! A fellow flyers fan in Forsyth what’s up man!! I just moved to Cumming early last year from actually right by the Battery in Cobb. Me and my brother are big flyers fans since the thrashers were taken from us. Im off exit 13 fyi. Me and my brother are definitely getting season tickets for our two families

But yeah I’ve seen a Sabres flag flown around here before. Tons of people aren’t from around here. Youth programs and men’s leagues surprisingly strong.

 

[FlyguyOX]

I feel like, from my understanding of "The Gathering" project at least, it's the sort of thing that could still conceivable end up going forward with popular support, even without that Arena and NHL tenant at all.

This is probably a good sign that they've got some confirmation that it's something with a high degree of likelihood....but from the plans i've seen, the Arena itself is kind of just tacked on to a proposed dense, walkable little community off the highway. With a whole bunch of Residential towers and mixed use stuff, commercial and retail and public space to support it. So depending on how they'd choose to phase the development, they could very easily just start with the residential/mixed-use community...and then either plunk in the arena if it happens, or find some other sort of use for the space if it doesn't materialize.

It may have started with the idea of the Arena being an "anchor" for the community, but it seems like the project independent of the Arena has gained a lot of momentum anyway. It's becoming a fairly popular development model in a lot of places that are realizing suburban sprawl is a pretty wretched problem and major financial burden, but these sort of high density projects are an absolute cash cow in terms of tax dollars per area, and extremely "environmentally friendly" green patterns of development in general. More typically attached to some sort of significant transit option (rail, light rail, etc.) but there are other ways to make that work.


It sounds like it's still just a non-binding MOU? Which probably prioritizes moving forward with the other development first. Leaving the Arena funding contingent on landing a franchise?

Here’s the thing - there’s two extremely similar type of developments already within 15-20 minutes of this new proposed Gathering location. I work extremely close to one- The Halcyon in Alpharetta, and the other is called The Avalaon. They’re both work, play, eat developments.

THAT is why they have to differentiate with a hockey team IMO. I don’t think concerts at the arena would be enough.

 

[SomeDude]

The year is 2045. Hfboards is filled with posts of people saying Stanley Cup wins should have an asterisk if they came before the 54 team league.

 

[AfroThunder396]

Makes sense - adding Atlanta to the East and Salt Lake City to the West keeps the conferences balanced.

 

[FlyguyOX]

Members of Forsyth County development 'The Gathering' meet with NHL about potential team

ITS HAPPENING YALL

 

[SI90]

Ridiculous. Third times a charm I guess

 

[AtlantaWhaler]

Ridiculous. Third times a charm I guess

For a long time it looked ridiculous to have two teams in NY, but things change.

 

[Patdud]

I'm happy for the fans who lost their team, but I really hope there's a better plan to make this work this time.

I suppose the more beneficial expansion drafts rules that Vegas and Seattle got compared to past teams will help. Having a franchise start out in the basement for years is not an easy way to build a fan base.

need a good owner who will ensure the team works and stick through it. really is the most important thing. Considering the expansion fees are 1B+ now, the buyer will have to be 100% committed to making it work.

 

[MCR74]

what a dumb boomer attitude you have

No. Boomer is believing hockey can actually work in Atlanta. They tried twice and failed miserably.

Then again, you can look at it this way. Once they bomb out a third time, maybe Saskatchewan can inherit the team.

 

[Patdud]

Bettman: If Atlanta doesn't work out, we can always relocate the team to Quebec

HA! Atlanta has been feeding Canadian cities NHL Teams, Quebec should see this as a good sign

 

[AtlantaWhaler]

No. Boomer is believing hockey can actually work in Atlanta. They tried twice and failed miserably.

Then again, you can look at it this way. Once they bomb out a third time, maybe Saskatchewan can inherit the team.

Still find this thinking funny. Right now, 4 "deep south" hockey teams are among top-10 in attendance with the 5th filling their arena to 100%. QC has lost teams too, but it snows there so they get a pass...lol

 

[SI90]

For a long time it looked ridiculous to have two teams in NY, but things change.

You’re comparing the Atlanta market to the New York market? Makes sense

 

[AtlantaWhaler]

You’re comparing the Atlanta market to the New York market? Makes sense

For a number of years, the Thrashers outdrew the Islanders. Does that make sense?

Happy to see them rebound. Things change.

 

[biturbo19]

Here’s the thing - there’s two extremely similar type of developments already within 15-20 minutes of this new proposed Gathering location. I work extremely close to one- The Halcyon in Alpharetta, and the other is called The Avalaon. They’re both work, play, eat developments.

THAT is why they have to differentiate with a hockey team IMO. I don’t think concerts at the arena would be enough.

Isn't that kind of an indication that they maybe don't need the hockey thing to make it work though? It'd obviously be major bonus to differentiate this one...but seeing that general type of development pop up and working without an NHL team kind of lends itself to the idea that it might not be completely make or break for this one either, doesn't it?

It's just a very popular model of development right now. For good reason. A lot of homes go up all at once, usually somewhat affordable homes for younger people. Tons of convenience and things to do within walking distance and pedestrian friendly urban design. There's demand for that sort of thing.

That Arena...it doesn't even necessarily have to end up being an Arena, so far as i understand this. At a later date, it could get swapped out for something else that is a draw/attraction for the community instead. I think you're probably right in that it wouldn't be worth it as an "Arena" without an NHL Tenant. That's the only way that particular chunk of funding/subsidy gets released. But there are a lot of other things that it could be instead, if the NHL thing does fall through.

An NHL Arena isn't always even necessarily a pure positive for these kind of things. Once they hit a sort of critical mass to sustain the commercial/retail spaces, those sort of "attractions" can even end up tipping the scales and just creating additional traffic that isn't as desirable. It can certainly elevate and make different commercial ventures feasible there, but there are always tradeoffs. Especially when they're isolated and a million miles from "downtown" like this.

 

[AtlantaWhaler]

Isn't that kind of an indication that they maybe don't need the hockey thing to make it work though? It'd obviously be major bonus to differentiate this one...but seeing that general type of development pop up and working without an NHL team kind of lends itself to the idea that it might not be completely make or break for this one either, doesn't it?

It's just a very popular model of development right now. For good reason. A lot of homes go up all at once, usually somewhat affordable homes for younger people. Tons of convenience and things to do within walking distance and pedestrian friendly urban design. There's demand for that sort of thing.

That Arena...it doesn't even necessarily have to end up being an Arena, so far as i understand this. At a later date, it could get swapped out for something else that is a draw/attraction for the community instead. I think you're probably right in that it wouldn't be worth it as an "Arena" without an NHL Tenant. That's the only way that particular chunk of funding/subsidy gets released. But there are a lot of other things that it could be instead, if the NHL thing does fall through.

An NHL Arena isn't always even necessarily a pure positive for these kind of things. Once they hit a sort of critical mass to sustain the commercial/retail spaces, those sort of "attractions" can even end up tipping the scales and just creating additional traffic that isn't as desirable. It can certainly elevate and make different commercial ventures feasible there, but there are always tradeoffs. Especially when they're isolated and a million miles from "downtown" like this.

Some great points. I agree that an arena as anchor doesn't NEED to be added. However, I'm willing to bet that this ownership group has been studying the Battery (the mixed development which is anchored by the Braves also located in the northern burbs) very closely. The Braves moved for a number of reasons, but one of them was to be closer to their ticket base. They have this map that shows about 80-90% of their ticket sales come from the northern arc of Atlanta. Since the move, attendance has gone way up. Would that be the same for hockey? Not sure, but the Braves do provide a great case study.