NHL to Atlanta odds just increased significantly

[tucker3434]

No. Boomer is believing hockey can actually work in Atlanta. They tried twice and failed miserably.

Then again, you can look at it this way. Once they bomb out a third time, maybe Saskatchewan can inherit the team.

Failed miserably? The Blackhawks had 3 seasons since '99 of worse attendance than the Thrashers ever had. The Thrashers didn't fail because of a lack of support but lack of a building.

Or do people just not care about facts?

 

[GhostfaceWu]

Basic math....

Canada population: 38,25 million.
US population: 340 million.

Yeah and what's the percentage of Canadians to Americans of those millions that are actual potential customers to the NHL? Basic math goes out the door at that point right.

 

[WTFMAN99]

I don't see how you would go here a 3rd time when there are so many other viable places to go to.

 

[Dubi Doo]

Completely different circumstances. It's been explained ad nauseum that, at this point, if you still don't get the difference then i'm not sure what to say.

I'll try to summarize for you:

Previously:
Arena was downtown, similar to the braves. The braves realized the vassssst majority of families coming to games were in metro atlanta, anywhere from 30-90min driver to the atlanta suburbs where TONS of money (and population) presides. Braves moved and hardly ever have an empty seat now thanks to the move.

This new Atlanta hockey team is even MORE accessible to Metro Atlanta. Not only that, but all of the youth hockey teams

(sidebar: the city actually has a very active hockey community, including mens leagues and youth leagues; the state university UGA has a club ice hockey team that has become so popular that they are even building an arena for a club team; the state supports (easily) two ECHL teams who both thrive in attendance)

are all within maybe 30 minutes in every direction of the new NHL arena location as well. When studies were done to see what made NHL teams popular there was a strong positive correlation with number of youth teams in the area.

Put plainly, there is no way with the population and money that will surround the new team - not to mention tickets that will be nabbed by an array of corporate business - for the team to fail unless they have an uninterested ownership group not looking to invest a dime and sell the team as soon as they're able, like last time. If the ownership group includes some of the folks I've been told personally, like Anson Carter, then I highly doubt that will be the case again.

Thanks for the insight! I'm not a fan of adding more teams. It'll just saturate the talent in the league. Hopefully, another team will be relocating to Atlanta.

 

[nhlfan79]

Well that’s pretty racist, and untrue. You probably would’ve thought the same thing about the MLS team I assume, but that team shattered world attendance records

...and coincidentally their 45,000+ fans at each match still shout "Knights" during the anthem in homage to the 1990's Atlanta Knights (who only left in 1996 because their home, The Omni, was being torn down post-Olympics to construct Philips (State Farm) Arena on the same site).

 

[ArGarBarGar]

Maybe this time the owner(s) will actually want to keep the team there.

f*** Atlanta Spirit Group, or whatever the hell they call themselves now.

 

[biturbo19]

Some great points. I agree that an arena as anchor doesn't NEED to be added. However, I'm willing to bet that this ownership group has been studying the Battery (the mixed development which is anchored by the Braves also located in the northern burbs) very closely. The Braves moved for a number of reasons, but one of them was to be closer to their ticket base. They have this map that shows about 80-90% of their ticket sales come from the northern arc of Atlanta. Since the move, attendance has gone way up. Would that be the same for hockey? Not sure, but the Braves do provide a great case study.

It's interesting to consider. In some ways, it almost flips the script. To where the development in a broader sense, is almost necessary to make the Arena and NHL Team work. Where they probably have done a metric ton of market research that tells them they need the Arena to be in that particular area for convenience to their actual market, which may not be "downtown Atlanta" for instance. Might just be some wealthy suburbs. But just plunking an Arena down in the middle of nowhere as a "standalone" is almost always a complete disaster. So you need to have some sort of development like this to sustain the whole thing.

Where you have the critical mass of population density to keep those restaurants and shops and things doors open on non-gamedays. Where the whole thing doesn't just turn into a ghost town when the Tenant Team isn't playing. Which lets you have a much better "gameday experience" that people from the exurbs can head down to the game and do a little dining and shopping and whatever else to make an evening of it. Getting that "pseudo-Downtown" experience. Without having to actually go to big scary downtown and find parking and get stuck in traffic and whatever else suburban Karens whine about.


But that's where it seems like the development can probably move forward...with the NHL Arena as an MOU that could end up pivoting to something else if it doesn't materialize. Though at this point, there's just so much smoke with Atlanta...it seems highly likely that it's just a matter of "when" not "if" they're gonna try it again. Hopefully more thoughtfully this time.

 

[McShogun99]

Well that’s pretty racist, and untrue. You probably would’ve thought the same thing about the MLS team I assume, but that team shattered world attendance records

I wasn't talking about race. I was talking about males between the age of 20-40. The NHL should be looking at moving to Houston instead.

 

[MCR74]

I don't see how you would go here a 3rd time when there are so many other viable places to go to.

Well, Gary does like his projects. He stuck a team in the desert after all.

 

[tucker3434]

Yeah and what's the percentage of Canadians to Americans of those millions that are actual potential customers to the NHL? Basic math goes out the door at that point right.

Delta, Home Depot, Coca-Cola, UPS, etc. These matter more than fans in the current pro sports climate. Ask Winnipeg's owners.

 

[FlyguyOX]

Isn't that kind of an indication that they maybe don't need the hockey thing to make it work though? It'd obviously be major bonus to differentiate this one...but seeing that general type of development pop up and working without an NHL team kind of lends itself to the idea that it might not be completely make or break for this one either, doesn't it?

It's just a very popular model of development right now. For good reason. A lot of homes go up all at once, usually somewhat affordable homes for younger people. Tons of convenience and things to do within walking distance and pedestrian friendly urban design. There's demand for that sort of thing.

That Arena...it doesn't even necessarily have to end up being an Arena, so far as i understand this. At a later date, it could get swapped out for something else that is a draw/attraction for the community instead. I think you're probably right in that it wouldn't be worth it as an "Arena" without an NHL Tenant. That's the only way that particular chunk of funding/subsidy gets released. But there are a lot of other things that it could be instead, if the NHL thing does fall through.

An NHL Arena isn't always even necessarily a pure positive for these kind of things. Once they hit a sort of critical mass to sustain the commercial/retail spaces, those sort of "attractions" can even end up tipping the scales and just creating additional traffic that isn't as desirable. It can certainly elevate and make different commercial ventures feasible there, but there are always tradeoffs. Especially when they're isolated and a million miles from "downtown" like this.

There's is adjacent major roadwork being done to accommodate the additional traffic that will come. Details on the site: Roadway Updates – The Gathering at South Forsyth

Some great points. I agree that an arena as anchor doesn't NEED to be added. However, I'm willing to bet that this ownership group has been studying the Battery (the mixed development which is anchored by the Braves also located in the northern burbs) very closely. The Braves moved for a number of reasons, but one of them was to be closer to their ticket base. They have this map that shows about 80-90% of their ticket sales come from the northern arc of Atlanta. Since the move, attendance has gone way up. Would that be the same for hockey? Not sure, but the Braves do provide a great case study.

...and coincidentally their 45,000+ fans at each match still shout "Knights" during the anthem in homage to the 1990's Atlanta Knights (who only left in 1996 because their home, The Omni, was being torn down post-Olympics to construct Philips (State Farm) Arena on the same site).

Yep, my dad used to go to the Atlanta Knights games before I was born and shortly after. I have a knights ministick stored away somewhere at my parents.

 

[FlyguyOX]

Delta, Home Depot, Coca-Cola, UPS, etc. These matter more than fans in the current pro sports climate. Ask Winnipeg's owners.

Rumor that Waffle House owner is part of the new ownership group, too.

But yes, the number of major company headquarters in ATL is LARGE. I worked for HD. Work for a different company that is HQ in Alpharetta now.

 

[AtlantaWhaler]

I wasn't talking about race. I was talking about males between the age of 20-40. The NHL should be looking at moving to Houston instead.

So...Atlanta has too many 20-40 year olds? Not enough? Houston has more? I don't get it.

 

[nhlfan79]

Yep, my dad used to go to the Atlanta Knights games before I was born and shortly after. I have a knights ministick stored away somewhere at my parents.

I worked for the Knights as an off-ice official. It's kind of a cool story. In 1993, I was in college in Athens, but regularly drove in and bought a ticket in my preferred seat location, which happened to be right next to where the off-ice IHL league staff were. They noticed that I was there every game and asked if I'd like to help them. So, I quickly got credentialed, and got to see lots of free hockey. And a championship.

 

[McShogun99]

So...Atlanta has too many 20-40 year olds? Not enough? Houston has more? I don't get it.

Houston will be a first time franchise and have an automatic rivalry with Dallas. Atlanta has had 2 shots already. Hockey will still be low on the sports interest list in Houston as well but Dallas has proven that Texas can support a hockey team.

 

[tucker3434]

Houston will be a first time franchise and have an automatic rivalry with Dallas. Atlanta has had 2 shots already. Hockey will still be low on the sports interest list in Houston as well but Dallas has proven that Texas can support a hockey team.

The idea that Dallas, Houston, Raleigh, Nashville, Atlanta, etc are all that different when it comes to sports is a bit nutty. Most of them will support a team in droves when they have something to cheer for. Won't when they don't. But that's also pretty much like almost everyone else.

 

[No Fun Shogun]

Contrary to popular myths, the Kansas City arena remains a net annual loss for the (local government) owners. The arena is generating annual operating profits from events, but those profits aren’t enough to cover the annual arena construction bond payments.

Fair enough point to make, wasn't aware of that. But at the very least even with a then-new barn, they didn't attract anybody that wanted to buy or bring a team there.

 

[Ratsreign]

So how old is he now......the superstar kid that picked up a stick instead of a football because the Atalanta Thrashers had team in his hometown?

-5 currently, not yet even a gleam in daddy’s eye.

 

[MuckOG]

Man, the NHL REALLY, REALLY want a team to succeed in ATL. I get that it's a larger market, but its a terrible sports town.

 

[tfwnogf]

theres too many teams already but f*** it let's get everyone a team.

 

[AtlantaWhaler]

Man, the NHL REALLY, REALLY want a team to succeed in ATL. I get that it's a larger market, but its a terrible sports town.

Based on what? Braves have been among the top-5 MLB attendance team, their MLS has set American soccer attendance records, and even the crappy basketball team fills the arena.

 

[tucker3434]

Man, the NHL REALLY, REALLY want a team to succeed in ATL. I get that it's a larger market, but its a terrible sports town.

Top 5 in revenue for both MLB and MLS. Public data. Easy to find.

Repeat a lie enough and people accept it as fact.

 

[MuckOG]

Based on what? Braves have been among the top-5 MLB attendance team, their MLS has set American soccer attendance records, and even the crappy basketball team fills the arena.

Based on the fact that they couldn't make the NHL work two previous times.

Braves fans show up when the team is winning (like now), but when they aren't attendance drops off big time (ie 2014-2016).

 

[tucker3434]

Based on the fact that they couldn't make the NHL work two previous times.

Braves fans show up when the team is winning (like now), but when they aren't attendance drops off big time (ie 2014-2016).

That's kinda how sports work. There are only a handful of teams in the NHL that support their team no matter what. Even Chicago's and Boston's stop showing up when the team is trash.

 

[May Day 10]

IMO, the NHL shouldn't be adding any US markets at this time.

Their resources should go into figuring out the possible logistics and breaking down the barriers to a European Division/Conference. The NHL has the leg up on the other major sports with European interest and a lot of European players. They can be the ones to conquer that frontier. Im sure the NBA will surpass them and beat them to it by a decade or so.