NHL.com Trophy Tracker - Hart Trophy

[NotASheep]

Amuses me how the pro leaf media is pushing Matthews, down playing McDavid but over looking that Matthews has the same stats as Leon

 

[BuiumSaveUs]

I mean McDavid also has a higher point share than any other Hart candidate. Kaprizov is awesome and carrying the Wild right now, but you can't argue that he's more valuable to the Wild than McDavid is to the Oilers. Yes we have Draisaitl, but supporting casts go far beyond your 2nd best player.

Sure you can.

 

[Nadal On Clay]

Are you under the impression that Lindholm didn't play on a line with Gaudreau that year? Because that is hilariously false.

Lindholm did, not Tkachuk, whom yourself, considered to be the worst player on that line this season.

Players who have won the Hart (Without winning the Rocket or Art-Ross) in the 21st century with both of their linemates in the top 30 in scoring:

2001: Joe Sakic - 2nd in goals (Gaudreau is currently 14th), Hejduk was 25th in scoring while Tanguay was 28th.

That’s it.

 

[Llamamoto]

Sure you can.

Then argue it.

McDavid has significantly more points and higher point share playing on a worse team. Defensively he's superior in almost every stat. I don't see how you can argue that Kaprizov is more valuable.

 

[BuiumSaveUs]

Then argue it.

McDavid has significantly more points and higher point share playing on a worse team. Defensively he's superior in almost every stat. I don't see how you can argue that Kaprizov is more valuable.

McDavid averages 3 minutes more a game than Kaprizov and plays on a powerplay with Leon Draisaitl. Points shouldn’t be your arguement for why he’s more deserving of the hart trophy. And, frankly, you’re not going to convince me he’s more worthy based on defensive metrics. I don’t know if there’s two players in the league that I watch cheat the game in the d-zone for offense more than 29 and 97. Sure, McDavid is more talented. However, Kaprizov transformed everything we know about the Minnesota Wild. To me, that’s more valuable than making the oilers a fringe playoff team.

 

[WhiskeyYerTheDevils]

I don't know, how it's dodge, when I haven't said anything else than "It's not one way street, where L and T are benefiting from G. G is also benefiting from L and T. And they are more than sum of their skills." You are the one telling post after post, how L and T are products of G.

Edit. And maybe you should show those G's numbers sometimes to show, how he hasn't benefited even close to same rate as other two.

It's a dodge because you failed to address the fact that my post proved your prior comment to be completely false. Here is what you said, just FYI:

Last season Gaudreau had 49 points, Lindholm 47 and Tkachuk 43, when they played most of time like that. Gaudreau has helped Lindholm and Tkachuk, but those have helped Gaudreau too. These posts aren't based on facts. Or at least, they tell just part of facts they want to tell.

Gaudreau is third in ES points since he entered the league, despite playing the overwhelming majority of his career with a Sean Monahan, so it's hardly the case that he's been carried by Lindholm and Tkachuk. Does from playing with them instead of Sean Monahan? Of course! I've been calling for a change there for years! Compared to being centered by Sean Monahan, Lindholm + Tkachuk is a massive, massive upgrade.

But we've really never seen Gaudreau play with actual first line players for any sustained amount of time in his career. It's not a coincidence that the first time he does he lights the league up, and brings both of the to newfound levels of productivity.

 

[Llamamoto]

McDavid averages 3 minutes more a game than Kaprizov and plays on a powerplay with Leon Draisaitl. Points shouldn’t be your arguement for why he’s more deserving of the hart trophy. And, frankly, you’re not going to convince me he’s more worthy based on defensive metrics. I don’t know if there’s two players in the league that I watch cheat the game in the d-zone for offense more than 29 and 97. Sure, McDavid is more talented. However, Kaprizov transformed everything we know about the Minnesota Wild. To me, that’s more valuable than making the oilers a fringe playoff team.

How many times do we have to say this. Points don't just increase with ice-time. If they did, why wouldn't Minnesota play Kaprizov more?

It's hilarious that people are using TOI as an argument against Hart consideration. Isn't it a positive that your team relies on you to play huge minutes?

 

[WhiskeyYerTheDevils]

Lindholm did, not Tkachuk, whom yourself, considered to be the worst player on that line this season.

Players who have won the Hart (Without winning the Rocket or Art-Ross) in the 21st century with both of their linemates in the top 30 in scoring:

2001: Joe Sakic - 2nd in goals (Gaudreau is currently 14th), Hejduk was 25th in scoring while Tanguay was 28th.

That’s it.

Tkachuk has been the worst player on that line this season, and the least consistent. Makes waaaay too many unforced giveaways into bad areas because he's always trying fancy stuff.

Over the prior 3 season Tkachuk has averaged 72 points per 82 games. He's essentially a ~30 goal ~70 point player on his own. A very good player, but not a 105 point winger lol.

 

[McFlash97]

lol TSN, such a homer network. Nothing about McDavid versus Crosby, but front page filled with the guy whos gone ice cold when it matters most.

Half these guys also probably voting for the Hart too.

 

[Nadal On Clay]

Tkachuk has been the worst player on that line this season, and the least consistent. Makes waaaay too many unforced giveaways into bad areas because he's always trying fancy stuff.

Over the prior 3 season Tkachuk has averaged 72 points per 82 games. He's essentially a ~30 goal ~70 point player on his own. A very good player, but not a 105 point winger lol.

Over the prior 3 seasons, Gaudreau has averaged 80 pts /82 GP. Its not like he is head and shoulders above him. They basically both gained ~30 points from playing together on their last 3 seasons production.

 

[AgeIess]

Over the prior 3 seasons, Gaudreau has averaged 80 pts /82 GP. Its not like he is head and shoulders above him. They basically both gained ~30 points from playing together on their last 3 seasons production

Also both gained from scoring being up this season as well.

 

[Arthur Morgan]

I don’t think anyone has played fewer games than Matthews will this year and won the Hart without leading the league in scoring.

Unfortunately I think his injuries/suspensions have take him out of the running.

Yeah have to say I agree with you, such a shame because how he was playing he was likely the fav to win the Hart

 

[WhiskeyYerTheDevils]

Over the prior 3 seasons, Gaudreau has averaged 80 pts /82 GP. Its not like he is head and shoulders above him. They basically both gained ~30 points from playing together on their last 3 seasons production.

While carrying an anchor of a center who was literally being healthy scratched this year...

 

[Arthur Morgan]

It's going to be Matthews, the media has already decided it. The 51 in 50 sealed it.

It's not enough anymore suspension and injury set him back. he needs to score those last 2 goals imo to get back into the conversation but I think he dropped a few places

 

[Arthur Morgan]

How many times do we have to say this. Points don't just increase with ice-time. If they did, why wouldn't Minnesota play Kaprizov more?

It's hilarious that people are using TOI as an argument against Hart consideration. Isn't it a positive that your team relies on you to play huge minutes?

What you talkin bout Willis? usually the more ice time a player gets the higher chance they have at putting up more points......
lets cut McDavid's ice time in half I bet his point totals go way down

 

[kevsh]

lets cut McDavid's ice time in half I bet his point totals go way down

... And when the Oilers go 4-10 in that stretch where his ice time is cut in half, he kind of just proved why he's a Hart trophy candidate.

 

[Arthur Morgan]

... And when the Oilers go 4-10 in that stretch where his ice time is cut in half, he kind of just proved why he's a Hart trophy candidate.

I don't understand why this matters. the point I was making is his point totals would go down.
and I thought Draisaitl was the shit shouldn't he be able to carry the team if McDavid's ice time is cut in half?
or does Draisaitl's high point totals every year depend on McDavid?

 

[Llamamoto]

What you talkin bout Willis? usually the more ice time a player gets the higher chance they have at putting up more points......
lets cut McDavid's ice time in half I bet his point totals go way down

Then why doesn't Kaprizov play more?

 

[Dust]

I don't understand why this matters. the point I was making is his point totals would go down.
and I thought Draisaitl was the shit shouldn't he be able to carry the team if McDavid's ice time is cut in half?
or does Draisaitl's high point totals every year depend on McDavid?

Point totals and ice time aren't a linear line. At a certain point, players gas out from too much ice time and their totals would probably go down, instead of up because they'd be floating to rest. That's what makes McDavid more unique, he's probably one of the best conditioned players that can handle that extra time without it negatively affecting him.

 

[Arthur Morgan]

Then why doesn't Kaprizov play more?

I don't know I'm not the coach
maybe the coach thinks my playing him the amount he is now the team will do better overall

 

[Arthur Morgan]

Point totals and ice time aren't a linear line. At a certain point, players gas out from too much ice time and their totals would probably go down, instead of up because they'd be floating to rest. That's what makes McDavid more unique, he's probably one of the best conditioned players that can handle that extra time without it negatively affecting him.

if u want to really over think it then yeah sure ur right but generally a players point totals should rise when getting more icetime
doesnt mean that player has to hold the position more
this argument was used on Rust to explain his increase point totals while I said he developed nicely over the years but everyone told me I was wrong and his increased ice time is the major reason.

 

[aufheben]

You can’t be the most valuable player in the league to your team if you still missed the playoffs.

Is this sarcasm?

 

[aufheben]

The obvious solution to all these various arguments is Shesterkin.

 

[McFlash97]

119 and counting.

Mode 2 in full effect.

 

[Walkingthroughforest]

Is this sarcasm?

How can you be the league’s most valuable player to your team if your team doesn’t achieve the bare minimum?

This is a pretty set in stone precedent in the NHL. There has only been 3 winners ever who’s teams missed the playoffs.