NHL.com Trophy Tracker - Hart Trophy

[KeithIsActuallyBad]

It could also be that Lindholm isn't holding Gaudreau back like Monahan was. He's the guy I'm most wary of when we play Calgary.

 

[Golden_Jet]

I believe Matthews will win the hart partly because of the 50 goals in 50 games narrative, which is also something that probably won't be done for another 30 years or even 50 years.

Taylor Hall won in 2018 also partly because of his 26 game point streak which had a lot of attention at the time.

Matthews is the best goal scorer this year but Gaudreau has been the best overall forward.

Hart nominees will be Matthews, Gaudreau and Josi with Matthews winning.

I thought Mcdavid was making a case a few weeks ago but his recent play has all but lost him a nominee unless he puts up something outrageous in the next 7 games like 2 OT winners and 15 points.

Taylor Hall won,because he was 41 points ahead of his next teammate, thus the most valuable to his team.

 

[steierwrass]

Well put. He's the biggest reason Lindholm and Tkachuk are 40 goal scorers.

Consider that Lindholm and Tkachuk together without Gaudreau were 60 point players last year before Gaudreau joined their line.

Last season Gaudreau had 49 points, Lindholm 47 and Tkachuk 43, when they played most of time like that. Gaudreau has helped Lindholm and Tkachuk, but those have helped Gaudreau too. These posts aren't based on facts. Or at least, they tell just part of facts they want to tell.

 

[BuiumSaveUs]

Looking like

McDavid
Huberdeau
Gaudreau

In other words, the top 3 scorers in the NHL at the moment. It’s dumb that the award is just morphing into another Lindsey.

 

[jigglysquishy]

Hall won in 2018 because the Oilers missed the playoffs.

McDavid had 38 more points than any Oiler and a full 70 more than third. He had the most dominant even strength season of the 21st century.

The Hart should have gone to McDavid that year.

 

[Llamamoto]

In other words, the top 3 scorers in the NHL at the moment. It’s dumb that the award is just morphing into another Lindsey.

I mean McDavid also has a higher point share than any other Hart candidate. Kaprizov is awesome and carrying the Wild right now, but you can't argue that he's more valuable to the Wild than McDavid is to the Oilers. Yes we have Draisaitl, but supporting casts go far beyond your 2nd best player.

 

[Rengorlex]

It's going to be Matthews, the media has already decided it. The 51 in 50 sealed it.

 

[WhiskeyYerTheDevils]

Last season Gaudreau had 49 points, Lindholm 47 and Tkachuk 43, when they played most of time like that. Gaudreau has helped Lindholm and Tkachuk, but those have helped Gaudreau too. These posts aren't based on facts. Or at least, they tell just part of facts they want to tell.

Tkachuk had 28 points in his first 40 games (14 at 5v5), Lindholm had 33 (17 at 5v5). They played together mostly with Dube or Mangiapane.

Then Gaudreau joined them. Tkachuk had 15 points in the final 16 games (11 at 5v5), Lindholm 16 points (8 at 5v5), and Gaudreau 22 points (14 at 5v5).

In total in the last two years (with and without Gaudreau at 5v5)
Lindholm - 2.49 vs 1.85p/60
Tkachuk - 3.42 vs 1.61p/60

Breaking it up into time frames:

In the 40 games before Gaudreau (thru 4/7/21)
Lindholm 1.94 p/60
Tkachuk 1.53 p/60

In the 95 games since since Gaudreau
Lindholm 2.43 p/60
Tkachuk 3.17 p/60

These are indeed facts.

This is the Gaudreau impact. Monahan's numbers tell the exact same story over the course of his career - whenever he was split from Gaudreau his numbers plummeted.

 

[Golden_Jet]

Hall won in 2018 because the Oilers missed the playoffs.

McDavid had 38 more points than any Oiler and a full 70 more than third. He had the most dominant even strength season of the 21st century.

The Hart should have gone to McDavid that year.

Hall had a bigger lead on points over his next teammate, than McDavid did.

 

[TheUnusedCrayon]

McDavid's defensive issues have almost always been the direct result of the team around him bad and so that requires him to gamble more for offense. But I agree, that is a compelling thing to add to the narrative against him for the Hart. I'm not even saying that jokingly. I think the narrative you can build for the Hart (or the Conn Smythe) is more important that who is actually the best player, or more valuable to his team. It also just looks better on a player on a top contender, rather than a team in the middle of the playoff picture like the Oilers

Very fair point but during that stretch McDavid just looked disinterested (I watch the Oilers too, it's the wife's team and I live near Edmonton). The whole team looked disinterested except for Draisaitl to me during that losing stretch.

 

[centipede2233]

Edmonton season turned around with the coaching change. This really hurts mcdavid case. Hart winners don’t get their coach fired…

hart winners make their coach look great like gaudreau, Huberdeau, josi, kaprizov or shesty

 

[Nadal On Clay]

Well put. He's the biggest reason Lindholm and Tkachuk are 40 goal scorers.

Consider that Lindholm and Tkachuk together without Gaudreau were 60 point players last year before Gaudreau joined their line.

People used the same argument against Gaudreau in the past because he had Sean Monahan as his center, like that was some huge benefit.

Calgary is probably battling for the last wild card spot without Gaudreau, but only because of Sutter. They have a +2 5v5 goal differential without Gaudreau on the ice, while Gaudreau's is +56.

Tkachuk and Lindholm had already scored 77 and 78 pts respectively in 2019 without Gaudreau. His linemates are just too good for him to win the Hart.

 

[Walkingthroughforest]

Hall won in 2018 because the Oilers missed the playoffs.

McDavid had 38 more points than any Oiler and a full 70 more than third. He had the most dominant even strength season of the 21st century.

The Hart should have gone to McDavid that year.

You can’t be the most valuable player in the league to your team if you still missed the playoffs.

 

[jigglysquishy]

Hall had a bigger lead on points over his next teammate, than McDavid did.

Top five on each team

McDavid- 108
Draisailt- 70
RNH - 48
Strome - 34
Lucic - 34

Hall - 93
Hirschier- 52
Palmieri - 44
Butcher - 44
Bratt - 35

Similar gaps between 1 and 2, but McDavid was further ahead of 3, 4, and 5. All while having 18 more even strength points than anyone else in the league. That's 27%. Gaudreau is leading by 10 this year, or 13%.

 

[jigglysquishy]

You can’t be the most valuable player in the league to your team if you still missed the playoffs.

Why not? Would McDavid have been a magically more valuable player if the Oilers had better goaltending?

No player provided more value to their team in the 17-18 season than McDavid.

 

[WhiskeyYerTheDevils]

Tkachuk and Lindholm had already scored 77 and 78 pts respectively in 2019 without Gaudreau. His linemates are just too good for him to win the Hart.

Are you under the impression that Lindholm didn't play on a line with Gaudreau that year? Because that is hilariously false.

 

[Walkingthroughforest]

Why not? Would McDavid have been a magically more valuable player if the Oilers had better goaltending?

No player provided more value to their team in the 17-18 season than McDavid.

Because it accomplished nothing. There have only been 3 winners non-playoff teams, ever. The last time it happened was 35 years ago.

 

[jigglysquishy]

Because it accomplished nothing. There have only been 3 winners non-playoff teams, ever. The last time it happened was 35 years ago.

So, dogmatically, taking a team from 30th to 16th is less valuable than from 16th to 15th?

It's completely devoid of logic.

 

[steierwrass]

Tkachuk had 28 points in his first 40 games (14 at 5v5), Lindholm had 33 (17 at 5v5). They played together mostly with Dube or Mangiapane.

Then Gaudreau joined them. Tkachuk had 15 points in the final 16 games (11 at 5v5), Lindholm 16 points (8 at 5v5), and Gaudreau 22 points (14 at 5v5).

In total in the last two years (with and without Gaudreau at 5v5)
Lindholm - 2.49 vs 1.85p/60
Tkachuk - 3.42 vs 1.61p/60

Breaking it up into time frames:

In the 40 games before Gaudreau (thru 4/7/21)
Lindholm 1.94 p/60
Tkachuk 1.53 p/60

In the 95 games since since Gaudreau
Lindholm 2.43 p/60
Tkachuk 3.17 p/60

These are indeed facts.

This is the Gaudreau impact. Monahan's numbers tell the exact same story over the course of his career - whenever he was split from Gaudreau his numbers plummeted.

Why don't you have there numbers for Gaudreau with and without those two? That's the point others have tried to say to you million times, that he also benefits from those two, when you are only making those two products of Gaudreau.

 

[Walkingthroughforest]

So, dogmatically, taking a team from 30th to 16th is less valuable than from 16th to 15th?

It's completely devoid of logic.

How? One of those teams succeeded in the regular season and the other failed. It’s very clear criteria.

The award is most valuable to the team. If the team fails then it doesn’t really matter how good the player was.

 

[WhiskeyYerTheDevils]

Why don't you have there numbers for Gaudreau with and without those two? That's the point others have tried to say to you million times, that he also benefits from those two, when you are only making those two products of Gaudreau.

Nice dodge, but I never said Gaudreau doesn't benefit from playing with those two, especially when the alternative is a broken Sean Monahan and Brett Ritchie lol.

Gaudreau put up a 6th place scoring finish as a 22 year old before Tkachuk or Lindholm were even on the roster.

Tkachuk and Lindholm are legitimate top line players, but they aren't superstars. They benefit FAR more from playing with Gaudreau than vice versa.

 

[steierwrass]

Nice dodge, but I never said Gaudreau doesn't benefit from playing with those two, especially when the alternative is a broken Sean Monahan and Brett Ritchie lol.

Gaudreau put up a 6th place scoring finish as a 22 year old before Tkachuk or Lindholm were even on the roster.

Tkachuk and Lindholm are legitimate top line players, but they aren't superstars. They benefit FAR more from playing with Gaudreau than vice versa.

I don't know, how it's dodge, when I haven't said anything else than "It's not one way street, where L and T are benefiting from G. G is also benefiting from L and T. And they are more than sum of their skills." You are the one telling post after post, how L and T are products of G.

Edit. And maybe you should show those G's numbers sometimes to show, how he hasn't benefited even close to same rate as other two.

 

[iCanada]

Edmonton season turned around with the coaching change. This really hurts mcdavid case. Hart winners don’t get their coach fired…

hart winners make their coach look great like gaudreau, Huberdeau, josi, kaprizov or shesty

I'm pretty sure Crosby and Malkin won multiple Hart Trophies on years where their coach got fired.

As did Patrick Kane?

 

[AgeIess]

Edmonton season turned around with the coaching change. This really hurts mcdavid case. Hart winners don’t get their coach fired…

hart winners make their coach look great like gaudreau, Huberdeau, josi, kaprizov or shesty

Coaches tend to get fired when they're not performing. This generally doesn't hurt a players case for the Hart. Especially when they're clearly the most valuable player to their team like McDavid happens to be.

 

[centipede2233]

I'm pretty sure Crosby and Malkin won multiple Hart Trophies on years where their coach got fired.

As did Patrick Kane?

Midseason?