Value of: Nazem Kadri's Next Contract

[Habs Halifax]

The better question is - why would you quote my tongue in cheek post about Nuke being the best player in the world and say we should pay "him" $9m a year if you don't think he's worth it? Or should I just assume that you didn't actually read my post before replying?

I think I was respectful up to this point. You can continue on with your sarcasm or twisting narratives but I'm not going down that rabbit hole. What does Nichushkin at $9M a year have to do with MacKinnon at $9M when the $9M for MacKinnon was about him leaving money on the table to stay and try to win?

Chill. I don't know why you brought Nichushkin at $9M into this? Remember, this conversation started with you saying you didn't have money to pay Kadri for 4 years at $5M. I don't agree that you can't afford a $5M 2nd line center

 

[theVladiator]

I do not get the idea of hanging your Cup aspirations on a 20yo Newhook. It's the never ending rebuild loop that HF loves so much. Can Newhook sustain this level of success? Can Byram overcome his injury curse? Nobody knows today. The priority would have to be keeping whoever gives you the chance to win the Cup over the next 2 years, and figure out the rest when it comes.

I think center depth is paramount, so keeping Kadri would have to be a priority, followed by Nichushkin and Burakovsky. I think all 3 can thank Colorado for reviving their careers, and will be willing to take some discount over market to stay (maybe not Landeskog's 2M discount, but still something substantial). Myself, I would look at the possibility to renew Kadri on a longer term, perhaps 6Mx6 or 6Mx7.

 

[Habs Halifax]

I do not get the idea of hanging your Cup aspirations on a 20yo Newhook. It's the never ending rebuild loop that HF loves so much. Can Newhook sustain this level of success? Can Byram overcome his injury curse? Nobody knows today. The priority would have to be keeping whoever gives you the chance to win the Cup over the next 2 years, and figure out the rest when it comes.

I think center depth is paramount, so keeping Kadri would have to be a priority, followed by Nichushkin and Burakovsky. I think all 3 can thank Colorado for reviving their careers, and will be willing to take some discount over market to stay (maybe not Landeskog's 2M discount, but still something substantial). Myself, I would look at the possibility to renew Kadri on a longer term, perhaps 6Mx6 or 6Mx7.

Agreed. I think if Kadri is willing to stay for a fair team friendly deal, Sakic will retain him.

 

[seanlinden]

Doubt it. He will get several offers and the last thing Kadri wants is to play that many games against the Leafs each season. Ontario boy factor that was clearly upset when he was traded away. Because he will have options, I don't think he chooses the Bruins

Call me crazy, but wouldn't that be something which probably appeals to him?

This isn't Zach Hyman, who despite Dubas botching the concept of getting something in return for him, parted in the most amicable fashion possible. I don't think there's a single Leaf fan who was happy to lose Hyman, nor a single Leaf fan who can call Hyman "greedy" for leaving.

This is Nazem Kadri, was traded because of 2 idiotic suspensions in the playoffs... a player who first rejected a trade to Calgary, then moved to Colorado. He didn't exactly part on the best of terms. Seems to me like going up against the Leafs, showing that it was a mistake to trade him, would be something that is right up Nazem Kadri's alley.

Sure, you can argue that it was Boston who so skillfully got under his skin that caused him to get suspended... if you can't beat them, join them?

 

[Habs Halifax]

Call me crazy, but wouldn't that be something which probably appeals to him?

This isn't Zach Hyman, who despite Dubas botching the concept of getting something in return for him, parted in the most amicable fashion possible. I don't think there's a single Leaf fan who was happy to lose Hyman, nor a single Leaf fan who can call Hyman "greedy" for leaving.

This is Nazem Kadri, was traded because of 2 idiotic suspensions in the playoffs... a player who first rejected a trade to Calgary, then moved to Colorado. He didn't exactly part on the best of terms. Seems to me like going up against the Leafs, showing that it was a mistake to trade him, would be something that is right up Nazem Kadri's alley.

Sure, you can argue that it was Boston who so skillfully got under his skin that caused him to get suspended... if you can't beat them, join them?

I think he will have options and he will choose a team on the west coast. Personally, I think he should stay and leave a bit on the table.

I don't think he is out for revenge on the Leafs and the Bruins won't be the team he signs

 

[seanlinden]

I think he will have options and he will choose a team on the west coast. Personally, I think he should stay and leave a bit on the table.

I don't think he is out for revenge on the Leafs and the Bruins won't be the team he signs

He doesn't have to be "out for revenge" to think signing with Boston is a good idea. They're a team that could certainly use a #2C, have some incredible weapons on the wing in the form of Pastrnak, Marchand, and Hall, and have the cap space to do it.

 

[Habs Halifax]

He doesn't have to be "out for revenge" to think signing with Boston is a good idea. They're a team that could certainly use a #2C, and have the cap space to do it.

I could see him considering that if he was limited with options but I don't see him being short of offers. So no, I would bet against Kadri signing with the Bruins.

Bruins have to figure out their direction as well cause Bergeron is a UFA at the end of the year and needs a new contract at age 37.

 

[seanlinden]

I could see him considering that if he was limited with options but I don't see him being short of offers. So no, I would bet against Kadri signing with the Bruins.

Bruins have to figure out their direction as well cause Bergeron is a UFA at the end of the year and needs a new contract at age 37.

Unless Boston decides to rebuild, which is unlikely given that they just signed Ullmark, Hall & Foligno in the offseason, I really don't think there's all that much to "figure out"...

You resign Bergy (of course) and there's probably a decent chance of him taking a paycut. You hope for continued growth from McAvoy & Carlo. You try and parlay Debrusk into either another forward project, or perhaps a left-shot defenceman to bump Forbort down the lineup a bit. You sign Nazem Kadri so that Coyle has the flexibility to move between #3C and the wing.

You accept that you're not neccessarily going to light up the regular season, but that you're going to be a REALLY difficult team to play against come playoff time; with size, "pestiness" and just enough scoring touch.

Let's not forget that Marchand has paced well over 30 goals in each of the last 6 seasons. Pastnrak has done that in each of the last 5, including seasons with 38 in 66 and 48 in 70. Bergy has paced well over 30 in 6 of the last 8. Hall has scored 39 in 76 before, and Kadri has a pair of 32-goal seasons to his credit.

Again, if I put myself in Kadri's shoes -- it seems like Boston would be the ideal fit if I can't get something done in Colorado.

 

[Habs Halifax]

Unless Boston decides to rebuild, which is unlikely given that they just signed Ullmark, Hall & Foligno in the offseason, I really don't think there's all that much to "figure out"...

You resign Bergy (of course) and there's probably a decent chance of him taking a paycut. You hope for continued growth from McAvoy & Carlo. You try and parlay Debrusk into either another forward project, or perhaps a left-shot defenceman to bump Forbort down the lineup a bit. You sign Nazem Kadri so that Coyle has the flexibility to move between #3C and the wing.

You accept that you're not neccessarily going to light up the regular season, but that you're going to be a REALLY difficult team to play against come playoff time.

I understand your approach but Kadri will have options other than the Bruins. I personally thinks he avoids the Atlantic Division and rather not face the Leafs that much during a regular season.

 

[seanlinden]

I understand your approach but Kadri will have options other than the Bruins. I personally thinks he avoids the Atlantic Division and rather not face the Leafs that much during a regular season.

Based on what?

 

[IWantSakicAsMyGM]

I think I was respectful up to this point. You can continue on with your sarcasm or twisting narratives but I'm not going down that rabbit hole. What does Nichushkin at $9M a year have to do with MacKinnon at $9M when the $9M for MacKinnon was about him leaving money on the table to stay and try to win?

Chill. I don't know why you brought Nichushkin into this. Remember, this conversation started with you saying you didn't have money to pay Kadri for 4 years at $5M. I don't agree that you can't afford a $5M 2nd line center

You made a joke about Price, and I responded with what I thought was an obvious joke about Nuke being the best player in the world and the guy we really need to sign. You quoted my post about Nichushkin (where I never once mentioned MacKinnon), and said "he" is on record about being willing to take a discount and we should sign "him" for $9, so I decided to make another joke, while also pointing out that I was very clearly talking about Nichushkin. But, despite you being the one to start with the jokes, my second joke is apparently "sarcasm or twisting narratives" and not the obvious joke it clearly was.

At this point, I really don't care what you think about the Avs and don't see any reason to waste more of my time explaining things when you'll just end up getting mad about something utterly irrelevant to what was said.

 

[Habs Halifax]

Based on what?

Already posted those reasons

 

[Habs Halifax]

You made a joke about Price, and I responded with what I thought was an obvious joke about Nuke being the best player in the world and the guy we really need to sign. You quoted my post about Nichushkin (where I never once mentioned MacKinnon), and said "he" is on record about being willing to take a discount and we should sign "him" for $9, so I decided to make another joke, while also pointing out that I was very clearly talking about Nichushkin. But, despite you being the one to start with the jokes, my second joke is apparently "sarcasm or twisting narratives" and not the obvious joke it clearly was.

At this point, I really don't care what you think about the Avs and don't see any reason to waste more of my time explaining things when you'll just end up getting mad about something utterly irrelevant to what was said.

Wow. Talk to me when you are less sensitive please. Take some time to respectfully follow the post chain. Other than my Price joke which I clearly presented as humor, I don't think there was a need to escalate it to this

1) I made a joke about Price yes. I even said I was joking. It was humor

2) I then said if Kadri was willing to stay and sign for a fair deal, the Avs should retain him.

3) You then said you don't have the cap space cause you got guys to sign.

4) I said you do have the cap space and I understand that you have to sign MacKinnon. I also said he is on record at wanting to stay and for a discount. I'd keep $9M - $10M free for him but also ensure you have a team that is still competitive for him to want to stay.

Back to the main point. If Kadri wants to stay for 4 years at $5M AAV, I do think Sakic retains him. At this stage, forget about everything else cause it got out of control.

 

[IWantSakicAsMyGM]

Wow. Talk to me when you are less sensitive please. Take some time to respectfully follow the post chain. Other than my Price joke which I clearly presented as humor, I don't think there was a need to escalate it to this

1) I made a joke about Price yes. I even said I was joking. It was humor

2) I then said if Kadri was willing to stay and sign for a fair deal, the Avs should retain him.

3) You then said you don't have the cap space cause you got guys to sign.

4) I said you do have the cap space and I understand that you have to sign MacKinnon. I also said he is on record at wanting to stay and for a discount. I'd keep $9M - $10M free for him but also ensure you have a team that is still competitive for him to want to stay.

Back to the main point. If Kadri wants to stay for 4 years at $5M AAV, I do think Sakic retains him. At this stage, forget about everything else cause it got out of control.

Maybe you should take your own advice and not get your knickers in a twist about a joke, and then go back and actually read what was written, because your summary has things out of order and is missing some very important piece of context, like the fact that I was clearly joking about our priority being signing Nuke (aka the best player in the world).

As for your main point, the counter to that is we have Newhook on his ELC, who can most likely play 2C going forward. Why spend $5m on Kadri instead of using that money elsewhere?

 

[Habs Halifax]

Maybe you should take your own advice and not get your knickers in a twist about a joke, and then go back and actually read what was written, because your summary has things out of order and is missing some very important piece of context, like the fact that I was clearly joking about our priority being signing Nuke (aka the best player in the world).

As for your main point, the counter to that is we have Newhook on his ELC, who can most likely play 2C going forward. Why spend $5m on Kadri instead of using that money elsewhere?

I don't think there is a need to take it to this level of controversy. Have a nice day. I've moved on from the Price debate. You should too. I'm not one to hold grudges.

And BTW... I assumed Nuke was MacKinnon. I didn't catch on to your joke. I thought it was some nickname you guys had on MacKinnon. This is why I asked you to go back and re-read the post chain. I wasn't being sarcastic with you in case you didn't notice that. This one got out of hand too fast and I'm sure it was due to past debate and how you think of me as a poster. Sorry, it was not my intentions.

 

[seanlinden]

Already posted those reasons

Where?

I only saw things along the lines of "he doesn't want to play the Leafs that often"...

I'm asking WHY you don't think he wants to play the Leafs that often?

 

[Menzinger]

Why is Kadri going to only sign for as short a term as 4 years?

Problem is with these contract predictions folks try to frame things as how GMs should act rather than how they will act. Plenty of GMs lack any sort of restraint or self control during free agency.

The odds are pretty high the team that signs his next deal are going to eventually be come to regret it.

 

[Seras]

He will sign for as much term and $'s as he possibly can, just like every single person on these forums would do.

Teams generally regret UFA deals before they expire, this is nothing new.

 

[IWantSakicAsMyGM]

I don't think there is a need to take it to this level of controversy. Have a nice day. I've moved on from the Price debate. You should too. I'm not one to hold grudges.

And BTW... I assumed Nuke was MacKinnon. I didn't catch on to your joke. I thought it was some nickname you guys had on MacKinnon. This is why I asked you to go back and re-read the post chain. I wasn't being sarcastic with you in case you didn't notice that. This one got out of hand too fast and I'm sure it was due to past debate and how you think of me as a poster. Sorry, it was not my intentions.

Where's the controversy? I've been trying to explain that I was just joking about Nichushkin, and now that you've explained where things went wrong, it seems like my native language of mildly insulting sarcasm was getting in the way of that being properly communicated. And, I don't take kindly to being accused of twisting facts when I know that I'm 100% correct and can prove it, which can make me even more sarcastic. I've been working on this since I moved to Colorado 20+ years ago, but I think it might be genetic. My family is all from New York, so what can I do?

And, I've been here since 2011, and my ignore list is completely empty, so I'm also not somebody to hold a grudge. I just have a strong dislike for bad faith arguments, which tends to put me at odds with people who make them in threads about the Avs. Unfortunately, there's been a lot of people suggesting Price to the Avs for years, and my patience has worn thin.

If you'd like to start over, I'd be happy to explain why I think Kadri is tough to afford (or at least justify) and would promise to attempt to tone down my sarcasm as much as I can, even if, admittedly, it probably won't move the dial much.

 

[Gliff]

He will sign for as much term and $'s as he possibly can, just like every single person on these forums would do.

Teams generally regret UFA deals before they expire, this is nothing new.

This is complete bs and I resent it...

I would also take into account local taxes.

 

[666]

I think he is worth $7-8 right now. If a team can keep the term down to ~4 years, they’ll be fine. If it’s a 7 year deal, it’ll be a problem.

I agree. I say he gets $7Mx5 somewhere.

 

[John Mandalorian]

I can see it being Columbus, Detroit, or Seattle

 

[Boud]

Delete

 

[seanlinden]

Why is Kadri going to only sign for as short a term as 4 years?

Problem is with these contract predictions folks try to frame things as how GMs should act rather than how they will act. Plenty of GMs lack any sort of restraint or self cotntrol during free agency.

The odds are pretty high the team that signs his next deal are going to eventually be come to regret it.

It would be an interesting analysis to take, say the last 10 years of UFA-signings that were 4 years or more, and see:

A) How many players finished that contract with the team they signed it with.

and

B) how many of those contracts were "good deals" in hindsight.

I suspect the list for both is pretty short.

 

[Adele Dazeem]

He's putting up career numbers...as a 31 year old. I would be very hesitant to give him the 8-year deal he's probably eyeing.
Someone will either offer him something ridiculous like 10M for 3/4 years or he'll tamper the dollar value to something like 7x8