Confirmed with Link: Morgan Frost new contract 2 x $2.1m

[renberg]

To be honest, with the way that most of the players were used last season, do we have an honest grip on what their potentials are? Frost had poor line mates, Cates never played competitive center before and on it goes. Last season seemed to be nothing more than an extended try out. Things need to coalesce this year with determined sensible roles. If not it’s going to be more than a lot of lost games. It’ll be an empty WFC. Fans aren’t going to tolerate much more of the trash that they saw last year.

 

[deadhead]

That’s the point. Marvel in Tortorella’s brilliance, while ignoring the more indicative sample.

The team says they are contending in 3 years, but they also desperately wanted to trade their best defenseman signed long-term at age 27 with absolutely nothing in the system. It’s not much different than Frost: there’s no plan except indulging the allegedly prophetic whims of an egomaniac.

He's not their best D-man, York is. Sanheim doesn't raise his partners' performance.
The problem with Sanheim isn't the first four years of his contract, but the out years when the team will be competitive.
I think he'll rebound, but he's a 2nd line guy who needs a defensive partner who can CYA for him.

 

[scumpup]

Yeah but have you considered Cates is good at defending? That absolves his terrible production, somehow.

wouldnt that make cates a candidate for PK and bottom 6 minutes? Shouldn't Frost then play with linemates who can enhance his scoring potential? Instead of Cates being an offensive black hole playing with offensive linemates zzzzz

Love the flyers

 

[Beef Invictus]

He's not their best D-man, York is. Sanheim doesn't raise his partners' performance.
The problem with Sanheim isn't the first four years of his contract, but the out years when the team will be competitive.
I think he'll rebound, but he's a 2nd line guy who needs a defensive partner who can CYA for him.

What a goofy standard. York doesn't either. How do you dream of this stuff?

Sanheim has successfully defensively carried slobs his whole career. This is a pile of muck.

 

[freakydallas13]

To be honest, with the way that most of the players were used last season, do we have an honest grip on what their potentials are? Frost had poor line mates, Cates never played competitive center before and on it goes. Last season seemed to be nothing more than an extended try out. Things need to coalesce this year with determined sensible roles. If not it’s going to be more than a lot of lost games. It’ll be an empty WFC. Fans aren’t going to tolerate much more of the trash that they saw last year.

Frost going into his D+7 season and the Flyers still haven't given him enough meaningful minutes to figure out what he is.

Capital D development if I ever saw it.

He's not their best D-man, York is.

Lol. Lmao, even.

 

[ponder719]

Frost going into his D+7 season and the Flyers still haven't given him enough meaningful minutes to figure out what he is.

Capital D development if I ever saw it.

They're capital D'ing him around, alright.

 

[FLYguy3911]

the Flyers aren't going to (or shouldn't) give a guy $4x6 million who has had one decent season.

This is hilarious, but probably true.

 

[BrindamoursNose]

So Ron Hextall was right?

He's not their best D-man, York is. Sanheim doesn't raise his partners' performance.
The problem with Sanheim isn't the first four years of his contract, but the out years when the team will be competitive.
I think he'll rebound, but he's a 2nd line guy who needs a defensive partner who can CYA for him.

Dude you are straight up delusional

 

[Captain Dave Poulin]

Frost going into his D+7 season and the Flyers still haven't given him enough meaningful minutes to figure out what he is.

Capital D development if I ever saw it.

And they have been absolutely terrible the entire time, with no reason not to feed him tons of minutes. Useless.

 

[DrinkFightFlyers]

They aren't similar, there's your first problem.

Frost has gotten the shaft. Cates hasn't; quite the opposite, actually. Cates' woeful offense puts a hard ceiling on his utility, and yet the team is gaga over him. Any sane and competent organization would see him as a bottom six center. The Flyers do not. Meanwhile, the upside guy they do have, they hate.

Seems like a problematic process, doesn't it?

They don't realize they are signing the better player for less. That's the entire problem. Broken process as usual.

They are. This is silly. You can drill down to certain dates and times and look at different metrics and whatever you want. Frost scored 8 more points than Cates last season and Cates played better defensively. Those are the facts. Frost got more PP time and Cates got more PK time too. And I know now that apparently defense doesn't matter (just like it no longer is important to be patient with prospects), but the Flyers obviously value that and up until recently I thought we all did too but I guess times change.

It's fine if one got easier minutes and one got tougher minutes and that impacted their production, those are arguments that the players and their agents can make during the negotiations. Which they did and then they agreed to less money. If he was truly that much better and the Flyers either know it and don't care or don't know it and don't value him, why TF did he sign here and why TF don't the Flyers trade him? He must have a really shitty agent if this is so obvious that everyone knows how much better he is than Cates but the Flyers are sabotaging his career yet he accepted the contract and is not asking for a trade. Why aren't teams trying to trade for him if the Flyers hate him so much? Why aren't the Flyers shopping him?

At the end of the day you don't get paid for what you COULD do or what you SHOULD do. You get paid for what you did. That doesn't mean I think Frost isn't going to be better than Cates or that Cates is more important to the team moving forward, but we're talking about contracts for to RFAs and people are complaining that the better player got less money.

 

[Ironmanrulez]

Bill's on the case.

BILLY

 

[Curufinwe]

I think he'll rebound, but he's a 2nd line guy who needs a defensive partner who can CYA for him.

This is why Sanheim in a down year still had the best 5on5 GA/60 on the team. Because he needs cover from a strong defensive partner like Risto.

Player Season Totals - Natural Stat Trick

 

[deadhead]

2019-2022 (excluding last season):

Sanheim - Risto 981 minutes CF 45.07%, GF%, 51.43%, xGF 47.42% xGA/60: 2.75
Sanheim - Myers 925 minutes CF 52.01%, GF% 46.50%, xGF 50.56%, xGA/60: 2.24
Sanheim - Braun 617 minutes CF 55.16%, GF% 52.67%, xGF 52.33%, xGA/60: 2.21
Sanheim - Provorov 373 minutes CF 46.99%, GF% 41.68%, xGF 48.33%, xGA/60: 2.48
playoffs
Sanheim - Myers 228 minutes, CF 50.23%, GF% 49.47%, xGF 41.00, xGA/60: 2.68

 

[JojoTheWhale]

"You only get paid for what you've already done."

Correct. They're a poorly run franchise. Everyone's in agreement.

Oh but also not just once. That doesn't count. Except when it does.

 

[Curufinwe]

Yes, we all know that Sanheim has never got to play regularly with a partner who is better than him in his entire career, unlike every other defensemen you listed.

He almost always gets stuck with duds. Just look at what happened to Provorov when he played with Risto last season - it was a total disaster, and that pairing actually gave up goals at higher rate than Provy-Angelo did. Meanwhile Sanheim carried Risto almost to respectability for two seasons.

Provorov-Ristolainen: 290:16 5on5 TOI, 7 GF, 17 GA

Sanheim-Ristolainen: 432:48 5on5 TOI, 14 GF, 12 GA

 

[BackToTheBrierePatch]

So Ron Hextall was right?



Dude you are straight up delusional

Why do you do this to yourself ?

 

[GapToothedWonder]

I love this place. Everyone thinks Frost is better than Cates. Frost signs for less than Cates. People are mad that we got a better player for less money. This is the epitome of complaining for the sake of complaining.

Real deep take here, definitely understands the nuances of what people are annoyed about.

 

[Beef Invictus]

They are. This is silly. You can drill down to certain dates and times and look at different metrics and whatever you want. Frost scored 8 more points than Cates last season and Cates played better defensively. Those are the facts. Frost got more PP time and Cates got more PK time too. And I know now that apparently defense doesn't matter (just like it no longer is important to be patient with prospects), but the Flyers obviously value that and up until recently I thought we all did too but I guess times change.

It's fine if one got easier minutes and one got tougher minutes and that impacted their production, those are arguments that the players and their agents can make during the negotiations. Which they did and then they agreed to less money. If he was truly that much better and the Flyers either know it and don't care or don't know it and don't value him, why TF did he sign here and why TF don't the Flyers trade him? He must have a really shitty agent if this is so obvious that everyone knows how much better he is than Cates but the Flyers are sabotaging his career yet he accepted the contract and is not asking for a trade. Why aren't teams trying to trade for him if the Flyers hate him so much? Why aren't the Flyers shopping him?

At the end of the day you don't get paid for what you COULD do or what you SHOULD do. You get paid for what you did. That doesn't mean I think Frost isn't going to be better than Cates or that Cates is more important to the team moving forward, but we're talking about contracts for to RFAs and people are complaining that the better player got less money.

Ok, so you do understand that Frost outscored Cates. He did so while playing acceptable defense. And he did it with worse usage. It's also a fact that Frost pretty obviously has more potential upside than Cates.

Do you agree, then, that it is bad that the team values Cates more? Or is it good that the team thinks worse players are actually better?

 

[Gert B Frobe]

This thread sucks. Bickering and insulting as usual.

Good deal for the Flyers though. I have been down on Frost from the beginning. Maybe he's a late bloomer and will have some better linemates this season. I hope he proves me wrong. Won't be the first or last time.

 

[blackjackmulligan]

Ok, so you do understand that Frost outscored Cates. He did so while playing acceptable defense. And he did it with worse usage. It's also a fact that Frost pretty obviously has more potential upside than Cates.

Do you agree, then, that it is bad that the team values Cates more? Or is it good that the team thinks worse players are actually better?

Do you think the flyers got a good deal on this Frost contract?

 

[Beef Invictus]

Do you think the flyers got a good deal on this Frost contract?

They did. On accident. They didn't mean to.

 

[Flyerfan4life]

They did. On accident. They didn't mean to.

personaly id bet Frost wanted a short deal so if hes trolled by Torts again this season (which he will) he can bail out on this dumpster fire Org. easier then if he had signed 4-6 years

 

[Curufinwe]

Also got a good short term deal on York. Not hard when these kids don’t have arb rights.

 

[blackjackmulligan]

They did. On accident. They didn't mean to.

You think Frost should get new agent then?

 

[deadhead]

You think Frost should get new agent then?

Frost got a reasonable deal for someone with a limited and puzzling track record.
He scored at a 1st line rate the last 56 games, 2.43 pp/60 (39th among forwards) but padded against weak defenses, and struggled against good teams.
He improved defensively to be acceptable, but was awful on the PP.

Now how do you value a guy like that off 2/3 of a season?

During that stretch:
TK 2.14 (80)
Tippett 1.94 (108)
Farabee 1.62 (179)
Cates 1.56 (187)

Laughton 1.40 (227)
Allison 1.02 (283)

JVR 1.71 (157), Hayes 1.34 (235), Brown 1.03 (282)
[Hathaway 1.75 (152)], Couts, Atkinson, Foerster

But xGF/60 over the same period:
Hayes 2.93 (90)
Tippett 2.87 (103)
TK 2.85 (105)
Laughton 2.78 (130)
JVR 2.71 (148)
Allison 2.65 (168)
Frost 2.62 (175)
[Hathaway 2.59 (185)]
Farabee 2.57 (193)
Cates 2.55 (199)
Brown 2.13 (280)

Frost "overscored", Laughton and Allison "underscored."
Which is why a GM would want a larger sample before risking big money or writing a player off.