Confirmed with Link: Morgan Frost new contract 2 x $2.1m

[Tripod]

Yeah, but have you stopped to consider defense?

"Similar offensive numbers"

....is what I am comparing.

 

[tnfrs]

this fkn kid is so good. red means good right?

 

[Beef Invictus]

Frost 41 ES pts, 18 ES goals
Cates 28 ES pts, 9 ES goals

Cates gets bigger contract, Frost gets called a toilet seat

"Similar production" with Cates getting way more favorable usage and coaching preference.

 

[Curufinwe]

this fkn kid is so good. red means good right?

Funny stuff coming from a guy who claims Sanheim sucks despite all this blue. I’m guessing you didn’t even notice these ratings cover a 3 year sample.

 

[tnfrs]

Funny stuff coming from a guy who claims Sanheim sucks despite all this blue.

ive said several times sanheim has every chance to still earn his contract, hes just not a 1st pair guy

 

[Beef Invictus]

ive said several times sanheim has every chance to still earn his contract, hes just not a 1st pair guy

There are worse "first pair" guys out there.

 

[Curufinwe]

Due to injury, Frost only played 55 games and had 16 points in the first season covered in that rating. Everyone here is well aware of his struggles to produce during that time and early last season when he was getting 4th line usage. He also got a very modest contract, so I have no idea what point you thought you were making with that post, outside of proving once again that you belong with the dullards on the Flyers Facebook group.

 

[tnfrs]

Due to injury, Frost only played 55 games and had 16 points in the first season covered in that rating. Everyone here is well aware of his struggles to produce during that time and early last season when he was getting 4th line usage. He also got a very modest contract, so I have no idea what point you thought you were making with that post, outside of proving once again that you belong with the dullards on the Flyers Facebook group.

not sure how insulting me helps make Sanheim a better player or strengthens your argument about Frost but youre a child and you say childish things and im no longer interested in continuing this conversation with you

 

[Magua]

Funny stuff coming from a guy who claims Sanheim sucks despite all this blue. I’m guessing you didn’t even notice these ratings cover a 3 year sample.

The Tortorella Effect:



Weird, it says 1st pair TOI and performance here over a large sample?

 

[Flyerfan4life]

Oh, from the ALL IMPORTANT DEC 7TH ONWARD where stats REALLY matter:

Frost 36 ES pts....led the team
Cates 22 ES pts.....5th on the team....less than even JVR

sounds like Cates need moar good minutes to me.

take a seat toiletboy..

 

[Magua]

I’m sure @VladDrag has something to say about Frost’s WAR not being accurately representative/predictive of his microstats and in-season growth.

 

[usahockey22flyers]

No

IDK its pretty close

 

[Hollywood Cannon]

I’m sure @VladDrag has something to say about Frost’s WAR not being accurately representative/predictive of his microstats and in-season growth.

Bill's on the case.

 

[Beef Invictus]

IDK its pretty close

Not really. Frost is better defensively especially at equivalent ages and it's not very close

 

[DrinkFightFlyers]

No. I can stop you right there.

One produced at a 2C rate. The other produced at a 4C rate.

I can also remind you that every time you defend the team's management and give them this benefit of the doubt, it has ended up being wrong. It's all the same people doing all the same stuff. They don't deserve optimism.

I'm not defending the management so much as I am pointing out the silliness of the complaint. You have two players that are similar in terms of what they have done in the NHL. One is better at offense and one is better at defense. Last season they had similar production. I am not certain how you are breaking it down between 2C and 4C rate but it must be based on something other than points per game because if you look at points per game Cates has higher PPG pace than Frost does during his career. They also have the same oiGF/60 and similar GF/60 over their career, Frost doing better last year than Cates who was in his first full season. You also have to factor in the defense. It is amazing to see the shift from the days of defensive forwards are a premium position and should be coveted to now saying that because Morgan Frost had a decent season offensively that he should be making more than Cates, whos cored 8 fewer points and played better defense. It is just a weird position to take while also again at the same time being upset with the Flyers for signing someone you clearly think is better to a more favorable deal. It's almost like...wait for it...you are complaining just for the sake of complaining.

If the Flyers signed a better player to a more favorable deal, that should be something to celebrate, no? Even if for some reason you believe they did it as an insult or that they don't know what they are doing or they accidentally did it beause they don't think he is as good as you think he is, wtf ever the reason is, he is signed to a cheaper deal. If he outplays that deal, he'll get more money on the next one. If he doesn't, we'll see where that takes us.

 

[BackToTheBrierePatch]

Bill sticking up for Frost is something I didn’t expect. I don’t mind the 2 year deal. It seems this is a league wide trend with younger players. I hope he continues to build off the 2nd half of last season

 

[JojoTheWhale]

the same oiGF/60 and similar GF/60

I would like to avoid getting involved in the larger discussion, but if you have a sec, I would love to know what has happened here. I've read it 12 times and I don't think the problem is between my ears for once.

 

[Hollywood Cannon]

Bill sticking up for Frost is something I didn’t expect. I don’t mind the 2 year deal. It seems this is a league wide trend with younger players. I hope he continues to build off the 2nd half of last season

Frost is about the only player that Bill doesn’t toe the company line on.

 

[VladDrag]

I’m sure @VladDrag has something to say about Frost’s WAR not being accurately representative/predictive of his microstats and in-season growth.

I am on vacation in OBX. I’ll respond when I am back in the office.

(I do)

 

[Beef Invictus]

I'm not defending the management so much as I am pointing out the silliness of the complaint. You have two players that are similar in terms of what they have done in the NHL. One is better at offense and one is better at defense. Last season they had similar production. I am not certain how you are breaking it down between 2C and 4C rate but it must be based on something other than points per game because if you look at points per game Cates has higher PPG pace than Frost does during his career. They also have the same oiGF/60 and similar GF/60 over their career, Frost doing better last year than Cates who was in his first full season. You also have to factor in the defense. It is amazing to see the shift from the days of defensive forwards are a premium position and should be coveted to now saying that because Morgan Frost had a decent season offensively that he should be making more than Cates, whos cored 8 fewer points and played better defense. It is just a weird position to take while also again at the same time being upset with the Flyers for signing someone you clearly think is better to a more favorable deal. It's almost like...wait for it...you are complaining just for the sake of complaining.

If the Flyers signed a better player to a more favorable deal, that should be something to celebrate, no? Even if for some reason you believe they did it as an insult or that they don't know what they are doing or they accidentally did it beause they don't think he is as good as you think he is, wtf ever the reason is, he is signed to a cheaper deal. If he outplays that deal, he'll get more money on the next one. If he doesn't, we'll see where that takes us.

They aren't similar, there's your first problem.

Frost has gotten the shaft. Cates hasn't; quite the opposite, actually. Cates' woeful offense puts a hard ceiling on his utility, and yet the team is gaga over him. Any sane and competent organization would see him as a bottom six center. The Flyers do not. Meanwhile, the upside guy they do have, they hate.

Seems like a problematic process, doesn't it?

They don't realize they are signing the better player for less. That's the entire problem. Broken process as usual.

 

[Tripod]

Since Dec 7th, because that's the date that matters:

Frost was 37th in the league in ES pts....1 behind Crosby, 1 ahead of BTkackuk
Cates was 177th in the league in ES pts....1 behind JVR, 1 ahead of Engvall

This is not similar production. And it's this type of gap that shows Frost's upside is SO much more than Cates. They should have locked him up long term and then do their best to keep growing that offensive upside. Instead, they will give him 3rd line wingers while Cates gets better offensive ones, and they will bitch that he doesn't produce as much. And pat themselves on the back for giving him a bridge and not committing long term.

 

[tucson83]

I'm not defending the management so much as I am pointing out the silliness of the complaint. You have two players that are similar in terms of what they have done in the NHL. One is better at offense and one is better at defense. Last season they had similar production. I am not certain how you are breaking it down between 2C and 4C rate but it must be based on something other than points per game because if you look at points per game Cates has higher PPG pace than Frost does during his career. They also have the same oiGF/60 and similar GF/60 over their career, Frost doing better last year than Cates who was in his first full season. You also have to factor in the defense. It is amazing to see the shift from the days of defensive forwards are a premium position and should be coveted to now saying that because Morgan Frost had a decent season offensively that he should be making more than Cates, whos cored 8 fewer points and played better defense. It is just a weird position to take while also again at the same time being upset with the Flyers for signing someone you clearly think is better to a more favorable deal. It's almost like...wait for it...you are complaining just for the sake of complaining.

If the Flyers signed a better player to a more favorable deal, that should be something to celebrate, no? Even if for some reason you believe they did it as an insult or that they don't know what they are doing or they accidentally did it beause they don't think he is as good as you think he is, wtf ever the reason is, he is signed to a cheaper deal. If he outplays that deal, he'll get more money on the next one. If he doesn't, we'll see where that takes us.

yeah i agree, i dont understand what exactly is the negativity with this deal because if he plays bad, he's gone, if he plays great at the end of deal he gets resigned for more. like resigning him to a big contract is just crazy and somehow i think fans just want him here long term and not care if he plays good or bad.

 

[freakydallas13]

Since Dec 7th, because that's the date that matters:

Frost was 37th in the league in ES pts....1 behind Crosby, 1 ahead of BTkackuk
Cates was 177th in the league in ES pts....1 behind JVR, 1 ahead of Engvall

This is not similar production. And it's this type of gap that shows Frost's upside is SO much more than Cates. They should have locked him up long term and then do their best to keep growing that offensive upside. Instead, they will give him 3rd line wingers while Cates gets better offensive ones, and they will bitch that he doesn't produce as much. And pat themselves on the back for giving him a bridge and not committing long term.

Yeah but have you considered Cates is good at defending? That absolves his terrible production, somehow.

 

[deadhead]

The Tortorella Effect:



Weird, it says 1st pair TOI and performance here over a large sample?

It's also a year out of date. Opps.

 

[Magua]

It's also a year out of date. Opps.

That’s the point. Marvel in Tortorella’s brilliance, while ignoring the more indicative sample.

The team says they are contending in 3 years, but they also desperately wanted to trade their best defenseman signed long-term at age 27 with absolutely nothing in the system. It’s not much different than Frost: there’s no plan except indulging the allegedly prophetic whims of an egomaniac.