Confirmed with Link: Morgan Frost new contract 2 x $2.1m

[freakydallas13]

But would Frost had accepted that? In two years, at 26, he'll be negotiating his one big contract, if he thinks last season's finish was his norm, he'd be looking at something on the order of 6x6. If he takes 6x4 now, he'd be negotiating his next deal at 30 and have to make another $16M over two years to break even.


Cates produced more WAR. But advanced metrics don't matter until they agree with you, I guess?

You left out the part where Cates was below the 25th percentile in offence, despite more favourable minutes.

 

[freakydallas13]

They've bridged three players, Tippett, Cates and Frost, all of whom lack any sort of track record.
It makes perfect sense to wait and see if they're for real or one year wonders.

They gave TK and Farabee long-term deals off a few years of production, as well as Provorov unfortunately, CF rushed to extend Sanheim and overpaid given his history.

Rushed to extend Sanheim because he bridged him twice right up to free agency.

 

[Audible Velvet]

Two years or less til emancipation.

 

[deadhead]

You left out the part where Cates was below the 25th percentile in offence, despite more favourable minutes.

The reason for WAR and other measures is to reject reliance on raw offensive statistics as the only measure of the quality of players in favor of their complete contribution to winning - something people conveniently forget when it suits their purposes (TDA did score 42 points last year!).

Advanced stats say Frost is the better offensive player but Cates is the better player in terms of his contribution to winning games.

 

[GKJ]

I don’t think Frost was ever signing for more than 3 years. I think ASF had that a few weeks ago. I don’t recall who wanted the third year but it was never going past that. A lot of players dont want to get locked into long deals with the cap bump coming.

 

[Rich Nixon]

Cates produced more WAR. But advanced metrics don't matter until they agree with you, I guess?

Whoa whoa whoa, this doesn't sound like a good thing. I, and probably most other thinking Americans, would prefer a world with less war--not more.

 

[Curufinwe]

Two years to convince him not to walk to UFA and leave for nothing?

He'll be an RFA in 2025.

I don't mind bridge contracts in a vacuum, but I do find it bizarre how Flyers management has decided to bridge almost every young player, no matter who has been the GM in recent years.

Not sure how far back recent is, but TK (9/6/2019), Provorov (9/12/2019) and Farabee (9/2/2021) all got long term deals coming out of their ELCs.

 

[wankstifier]

I can’t believe how long this took. Decades in hockey time

 

[usahockey22flyers]

Is his comp Sam Gagner? I feel like that makes a lot of sense

 

[mr4tno]

Less than Cates. Flyers gonna fly

This shows you exactly what the Flyers value, and why they will never will another Stanley Cup along with being an absolutely boring team to watch.

 

[macleish1974]

Frost…I am happy for him..but the rest of the team is like trying to fit two different jigsaw puzzles together by a bunch of nitwits. And to boot the nitwits do not know it is two puzzles.

 

[Random Forest]

Why would Frost want to sign a long term deal if he thinks he’ll be worth significantly more in two years? A non-bridge deal for a player who is still developing makes sense for the team *only if* you can get the player to take the security of a long term deal in exchange for AAV. But if you’re bellyaching over the team not giving him ~6 years, then you’re just suggesting the team pay him for a level of play he has not performed at yet.

This kind of deal was always the logical conclusion for both sides.

 

[Beef Invictus]

Is his comp Sam Gagner? I feel like that makes a lot of sense

No

 

[ponder719]

He'll be an RFA in 2025.

I'm aware. This gives us two years to convince him that it's worth signing a long-term deal at the end of the bridge, rather than us signing him to a deal that walks him directly to UFA, when we'd have no control over the situation.

 

[Curufinwe]

If Torts is still here in 2 years I doubt Frost will be.

 

[prototypical4thliner]

Not that we should take everything in print for granted, but Meltzer mentioned he may get the short end of the stick with couturier back and cates taking a good chunk of ice time too.

If deployed correctly, frost should have very good opportunities against other bottom lines. If…

 

[freakydallas13]

The reason for WAR and other measures is to reject reliance on raw offensive statistics as the only measure of the quality of players in favor of their complete contribution to winning - something people conveniently forget when it suits their purposes (TDA did score 42 points last year!).

Advanced stats say Frost is the better offensive player but Cates is the better player in terms of his contribution to winning games.

Again, Cates' WAR is pushed up because of his defence. Offensively he's a 4th liner.

Oh, Frost's WAR increased from 2 seasons ago to last year btw, while Cates' decreased over that time.

 

[deadhead]

Again, Cates' WAR is pushed up because of his defence. Offensively he's a 4th liner.

Oh, Frost's WAR increased from 2 seasons ago to last year btw, while Cates' decreased over that time.

So defense doesn't matter?

I see this with PP scoring as well, people go gaga over a player padding his stats on the PP, and ignore that what matters are "Net special teams," that is, how many goals are scored for and against on both the PP and the PK - which means that a top PK killer is worth as much as a top PP scorer.

This is similar to baseball, where traditionally BA and runs scored and RBIs were considered the measure of quality, then advanced metrics showed OPS was far more correlated to winning and that defense made a significant contribution.

Both Frost and Cates significantly improved offensively once they became 2a and 2b in December.
Both players are 24, with upside left but a lot of uncertainty due to a limited resume.

It's not either, they fill different roles and are used differently, you want Frost to get favorable matchups to aid his offensive production, you use Cates as a shutdown defensive center, a role which will suppress his offense.
Frost needs to show he can score against better competition to be considered more than a sheltered 3C in the long run.
Cates needs to show he can drive a line offensively at a respectable (3C level) to be more than a defensive specialist at center.

 

[Flyerfan4life]

If Torts is still here in 2 years I doubt Frost will be.

2 years ? try this trade season..

 

[Beef Invictus]

So defense doesn't matter?

I see this with PP scoring as well, people go gaga over a player padding his stats on the PP, and ignore that what matters are "Net special teams," that is, how many goals are scored for and against on both the PP and the PK - which means that a top PK killer is worth as much as a top PP scorer.

This is similar to baseball, where traditionally BA and runs scored and RBIs were considered the measure of quality, then advanced metrics showed OPS was far more correlated to winning and that defense made a significant contribution.

Both Frost and Cates significantly improved offensively once they became 2a and 2b in December.
Both players are 24, with upside left but a lot of uncertainty due to a limited resume.

It's not either, they fill different roles and are used differently, you want Frost to get favorable matchups to aid his offensive production, you use Cates as a shutdown defensive center, a role which will suppress his offense.
Frost needs to show he can score against better competition to be considered more than a sheltered 3C in the long run.
Cates needs to show he can drive a line offensively at a respectable (3C level) to be more than a defensive specialist at center.

Roles are stupid.

They don't use Cates as a shutdown center. They use him as a top six center, which suppresses the team's scoring potential.

 

[Rebels57]

Roles are stupid.

They don't use Cates as a shutdown center. They use him as a top six center, which suppresses the team's scoring potential.

But rolls, on the other hand, are delicious.

 

[Curufinwe]

Cates will be dominate in his new roll.

 

[BernieParent]

Cates will be dominate in new roll.

In their rolls, Cates is peanut butter and Frost* is Nutella.






* I avoided the too-easy "Frosting", so don't ask

 

[ponder719]

In their rolls, Cates is peanut butter and Frost* is Nutella.

* I avoided the too-easy "Frosting", so don't ask

I'm glad you stopped describing players as brownish spreads before getting to Deslauriers.

 

[BernieParent]

I'm glad you stopped describing players as brownish spreads before getting to Deslauriers.