Post-Game Talk: Montreal/Reimer defeat the Leafs....

[Blueleaf]

In the preseason MacIntyre bested both Reimer and Bernier with his stats, after playing in the preaseason.

"In 85 minutes of preseason action for the Leafs, he had a goals against average of 1.41 with a 94.6 save percentage."

I think we may be impressed and maybe even very surprised. He is definitely better than Reimer and his AHL stats are certainly some of the best in the history of the Marlies organization.

 

[The Winter Soldier]

If you read my post you would have seen that i said "in my opinion" did not state it as a fact.

but it seems pretty obvious. Last year we were defensively bad as well but werent as fragile as we are this season.

Last year we had flipping the puck in the air or off the glass and using speed to force play when other team had posssession I haven't seen that play this season at all

Meanwhile, our team still uses the same stupid break outs with no structure that hasn't worked well, we get forechecked easily and get pressured easily in our zone doesn[t matter which line is on the ice.

Last year Carlyle had the luxury of running a shut-down line

Komorv-McClement-Kulemin

This year he has no shutdown line.

And our offensive zone plays are just worthy

Maybe Carlyle is coaching but the players are not listening. Or we have players incapable of playing a system or in both zones of the ice.

 

[Daisy Jane]

I've given up on Leafs Talk. The other night Frost even admitted at 10:25 that they probably wouldn't be able to get to any other callers because..............Mike in Buffalo was up next. FFS

why don't they just swap phone numbers at this point, crying out loud.

 

[Warden of the North]

From a micro view what sunk our ship was goaltending crapping the bed at the absolute wrong time of the year. From the macro view of the season as a whole goaltending will likely be viewed as what got us even close.

I dont see how we make it now. We're done.

 

[Espher]

Also, I'm not sure what your trying to say for the first part, because Bernier has been the better goalie all season long. His lowest beating Bernier lowest does not make him worst goalie since the Olympic break. I'm sure many leafs fans value wins over loses.

I'm not sure what's so hard to figure out.

The team has eked out OTLs with Bernier having a lower sv% than Reimer, and eked out OTWs with Bernier having a lower sv% than Reimer. We're praising Bernier as the saviour because we got points out of games where he put up worse numbers than Reimer, and blaming those losses (in games where he got less goal support) on Reimer. The whole team has been playing like ****, but they played a little ****tier under Reimer, so Reimer is the cause of all our woes.

Of course, lurking these boards for many years, it doesn't surprise me that the viewpoint is as myopic as it is -- after all, these are the same people who look at the record with a 3rd line guy in and out of the line-up and immediately take a small sample correlation as causation.

 

[tamle]

the only question i got after this game was... what did JVR do to get yelled at by Kessel early in the third?

 

[Ari91]

I am from PEI and I have to say that Drew MacIntyre has a good head on his shoulders. Anyone who has waited this long for his break into the NHL is going to work his tail off to be successful. There is a risk here for Drew too in that it is finally the make or break time. May I remind everyone that in the preseason Drew had the best stats of both Bernier and Reimer. I think sometimes everyone forgets that. In the preseason Bernier and Reimer had just as much to prove too as did Drew too. You can't tell me they weren't vying for the number one goalie position from the moment Bernier arrived in Toronto. Drew was just happy to be here for the preseason and knew he wasn't staying. He has even more incentive now and when he is motivated he plays better.

I think there might be risk and reward in starting Drew as I see it similar to you as well. He looked good in preseason and had good numbers. He's a solid guy in net for the Marlies. If he plays, there will be his own personal challenges he will have to rise above (playing well to get noticed by the league and finally land a chance somewhere) but he'll have little pressure in terms of team result. If he wins, he's a hero. If he loses, no one will blaming him for the Leafs fall from grace.

 

[Erdinger]

From a micro view what sunk our ship was goaltending crapping the bed at the absolute wrong time of the year. From the macro view of the season as a whole goaltending will likely be viewed as what got us even close.

I dont see how we make it now. We're done.

As good as Bernier and Reimer were earlier on it takes a Hasek or Roy at their peak to get a team as completely defensively flawed as this one to the playoffs and beyond.

 

[mikeyz]

the only question i got after this game was... what did JVR do to get yelled at by Kessel early in the third?

Because Kessel was in his favorite spot on the ice and JVR didn't pass it to him.

 

[I Am The Stig]

From a micro view what sunk our ship was goaltending crapping the bed at the absolute wrong time of the year. From the macro view of the season as a whole goaltending will likely be viewed as what got us even close.

I dont see how we make it now. We're done.

I've always said that there's something wrong with this team when it lives and dies by it's goaltending.

 

[Paradoc]

I'm not sure what's so hard to figure out.

The team has eked out OTLs with Bernier having a lower sv% than Reimer, and eked out OTWs with Bernier having a lower sv% than Reimer. We're praising Bernier as the saviour because we got points out of games where he put up worse numbers than Reimer, and blaming those losses (in games where he got less goal support) on Reimer. The whole team has been playing like ****, but they played a little ****tier under Reimer, so Reimer is the cause of all our woes.

Of course, lurking these boards for many years, it doesn't surprise me that the viewpoint is as myopic as it is -- after all, these are the same people who look at the record with a 3rd line guy in and out of the line-up and immediately take a small sample correlation as causation.

We're praising Bernier because he has been our savior all season long. When you post a sv of .925 while having the majority of the starts versus a goalie with a .910, which goalie do you think the fan base will support the most? Keep in mind, this is playing with the SAME defense, personell, system, coaching, etc. so you can't use garbage excuse like the defense was crap, no goal support, etc. Like I said before this fan base values wins over loses and Bernier does this while being in a slump. It's not that hard to figure out why we would dump on Reimer and not Bernier despite whatever reason you come up with.

 

[Semantics]

How many dumped on MacArthur last year?

Honestly, I think what happened to him may have been the point where a lot of players on the team just had it with Carlyle.

MacArthur didn't play badly at all in game 1, he didn't produce but he wasn't on the ice for any goals against, and then was inexplicably benched for the next two games. If I saw that happening to my teammate, if I saw what he did to Grabovski, if I saw the Kostka love-in, I know I'd be thinking my coach is an idiot. And for those guys to come out publicly and slam him, you know there had to be more going on in the room that pissed off the players, and not just those two.

So it seems to me that the majority of the team probably had very little respect for Carlyle's coaching right from the beginning of the season. They are professionals and have tried to play for him, but when his players think a coach is a joke he's just not likely to be very successful at coaching them. Especially when things aren't going well and they're just rolling their eyes at him.

I think Nonis should have realized that Carlyle had lost control of his players the moment he needed to start shipping out good talent because of him. And if not then, when they started lashing out in the media. Carlyle should have been replaced in the off season, at least bring in someone who the team would want to play with. Another very expensive lesson for Nonis along with some of his signings.

 

[HockeyGuy82]

Reimer will not play tomorrow. I think Carlyle will make the switch. As much as we are mad about goaltending right now, without them, we would be around Ottawa in the standings. The defence is just as bad.

 

[leafstilldeath*]

Maybe Carlyle is coaching but the players are not listening. Or we have players incapable of playing a system or in both zones of the ice.

if players are not listening there are two possibilities:

1. Players think they are better than whatever coach tells them

or

2. Carlyle doesn't know how to get his message through...i.e. he is not good at player management


There is more evidence of the latter than the former..... also, you might want to ask ducks fans as well.

Without Pronger, Neidermayer, Prime Giggy, Hiller

Carlyle probably just isn't a good coach.


Bylsma got Penguins into playoffs last season after they battled injuries
MacLean got Sens into playoffs last season after they battled injuries

heck,

Even Babcock this season is doing it

Hitchcock has completely changed the culture in St. Louis
Roy with Colorado has done the same


Carlyle should take some communication classes in the off-season with extra courses in how to motivate people and how to be a people's person while still commanding respect.


HBO clearly showed the difference in class of Babcock and Carlyle.

 

[Ari91]

I'm not sure what's so hard to figure out.

The team has eked out OTLs with Bernier having a lower sv% than Reimer, and eked out OTWs with Bernier having a lower sv% than Reimer. We're praising Bernier as the saviour because we got points out of games where he put up worse numbers than Reimer, and blaming those losses (in games where he got less goal support) on Reimer. The whole team has been playing like ****, but they played a little ****tier under Reimer, so Reimer is the cause of all our woes.

Of course, lurking these boards for many years, it doesn't surprise me that the viewpoint is as myopic as it is -- after all, these are the same people who look at the record with a 3rd line guy in and out of the line-up and immediately take a small sample correlation as causation.

I don't have the best memory recall to think back to every single goal that Bernier or Reimer has given up since the Olympic break but looking at the numbers themselves doesn't do justice to your argument. You need to break it down further to prove your point - scoring chances against, saves, how the goals were scored on each goalie, what were the circumstances of the game when they allowed each goal, etc.

 

[jrgtml67]

Reimer will not play tomorrow. I think Carlyle will make the switch. As much as we are mad about goaltending right now, without them, we would be around Ottawa in the standings. The defence is just as bad.

Bernier will be in. He practiced for the second time today...and I am sure we would have heard of a set back if he indeed had 1. If Drew plays, I look at it as, a back to back situation more than Reimer's play. People are basing our loses solely on the goalie. Has anyone forgotten how many times they have been left hung out to dry? Reimer kept us in it tonight 2 big glove saves no less to keep it 2-0...and because of how the 4th went in its all on him? As well that penalty against JVR was ridiculous. Just the other week at MTL player sat on Lehner in the crease in OT no call and MTL won against the Sens.

 

[HockeyGuy82]

At least we are not Oilers fans! hahaha! Losing to Calgary 7-1. wow< what a good rebuild!!

 

[I Am The Stig]

Bernier will be in. He practiced for the second time today...and I am sure we would have heard of a set back if he indeed had 1. If Drew plays, I look at it as, a back to back situation more than Reimer's play. People are basing our loses solely on the goalie. Has anyone forgotten how many times they have been left hung out to dry? Reimer kept us in it tonight 2 big glove saves no less to keep it 2-0...and because of how the 4th went in its all on him? As well that penalty against JVR was ridiculous. Just the other week at MTL player sat on Lehner in the crease in OT no call and MTL won against the Sens.

He won't be making the trip per Carlyle

 

[Espher]

We're praising Bernier because he has been our savior all season long. When you post a sv of .925 while having the majority of the starts versus a goalie with a .910, which goalie do you think the fan base will support the most? Keep in mind, this is playing with the SAME defense, personell, system, coaching, etc. so you can't use garbage excuse like the defense was crap, no goal support, etc. Like I said before this fan base values wins over loses and Bernier does this while being in a slump. It's not that hard to figure out why we would dump on Reimer and not Bernier despite whatever reason you come up with.

Both goaltenders were solid early on. The team turned on Reimer after the DET game where he got no support, and they're turning on him again because of the last four games where he also got no support. If he'd gotten the support Bernier had, we might be talking about how he'd gotten us points in 5/6 games, and how he would take us to the Glory Land of the Playoffs.

Bernier's getting a pass for putting up ****tier numbers because the team gave him extra goal support and What Have You Done For Me Lately Nation only remembers the pre-Olympic run and not the kind of cool Nov/Dec/Jan, while Reimer is getting crucified and e-run out of town while putting up slightly less ****** numbers with less goal support. And that pisses me off.

If the team (and both goaltenders) play the same way they've played since the break through the rest of the season, it won't ****ing matter who is in net, because the ONLY major difference is run support.

I don't have the best memory recall to think back to every single goal that Bernier or Reimer has given up since the Olympic break but looking at the numbers themselves doesn't do justice to your argument. You need to break it down further to prove your point - scoring chances against, saves, how the goals were scored on each goalie, what were the circumstances of the game when they allowed each goal, etc.

Oh, I already did that in brief after I got called on it, and I was totally proven wrong.

Since the break, Reimer is bad and should be run out of town because he puts the team into early (often 2-0) deficits and lets in soft goals goals and blows leads and can't make any key saves, while Bernier is the saviour because he puts the team into early (often 2-0) deficits and lets in soft goals and blows leads and can't make any key saves.

 

[jrgtml67]

At least we are not Oilers fans! hahaha! Losing to Calgary 7-1. wow< what a good rebuild!!

That's a joke right? Hall Eberle Yakupov Schultz ...shall I go on? Remember the leafs when we were the youngest in the league and didnt have anywhere near the names I just mentioned...3 yrs later we put up helluva fight against the Bruins and as for this yr I wont jinx it

 

[leafstilldeath*]

At least we are not Oilers fans! hahaha! Losing to Calgary 7-1. wow< what a good rebuild!!

There should be a limit to how many times a team can pick in the top 3-5 positions after sucking year after year.

Edmonton has picked in the top 2 how many years in a row now?

 

[I Am The Stig]

There should be a limit to how many times a team can pick in the top 3-5 positions after sucking year after year.

Edmonton has picked in the top 2 how many years in a row now?

I remember Edmonton got that #1 pick they had no business of getting in the lottery. I think that was the year they finished 5th or something.

 

[The Winter Soldier]

That's a joke right? Hall Eberle Yakupov Schultz ...shall I go on? Remember the leafs when we were the youngest in the league and didnt have anywhere near the names I just mentioned...3 yrs later we put up helluva fight against the Bruins and as for this yr I wont jinx it

The only thing separating us from the Oil is Bozak, Kessel, JVR, Dion, Gunnar and Bernier. Take them out of our lineup and put them on the Oilers and things are reversed. We are not far behind them in GA, the only difference is we outscore our problems some nights.

 

[Jacquestrapless]

Still cannot get the puck out of our zone other than flipping it out or chipping it off the boards. I thought these were NHL level players.

 

[Erdinger]

There should be a limit to how many times a team can pick in the top 3-5 positions after sucking year after year.

Edmonton has picked in the top 2 how many years in a row now?

Long enough that they can't hold on to all of them when the 2nd contracts come up