OT: MLB Discussion Thread: Part XXIII

[pld459666]

"Hes at best, a middle of the rotation starter."

Now I know this argument is a waste of time. Paxton is a borderline #1 starter, an elite #2 at the worst. He's also under contract until 2021.

His body of work is not impressive

At all

 

[Machinehead]

Bumgarner or Bauer would be nice, but we have an ace.

We need to get Severino to stop dying in August.

 

[RGY]

 

[Irishguy42]

But, you know, "body of work not impressive at all" or something like that.

 

[pld459666]

But, you know, "body of work not impressive at all" or something like that.

Let's see his repeat it

One year doesn't make a career good or bad

 

[Cassano]

The tables turn.

Loool!

I'm okay with the deal, I would've rather have moved Frazier or even Florial than Sheff though. Who knows, maybe those guys get moved for Kluber

 

[Cassano]

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

Bumgarner or Bauer would be nice, but we have an ace.

We need to get Severino to stop dying in August.

Get rid of the pitching coach.

 

[Machinehead]

Get rid of the pitching coach.

1000% agree with this.

Cashman seems to love this staff, though.

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

Let's see his repeat it

One year doesn't make a career good or bad

HEs been great when he throws.

His ability isn't the issue.

 

[2Leetch_94]

 

[One Winged Angel]

Okay but they need multiple starters. So you have to do the best you can by breaking up the prospect packages.
Since Sheffield isn't getting you the pitchers you named, a guy like Paxton is likely the next best option. While still having ammo for possibly another TOR starter.

While I agree with you, it's still a risky move. His numbers are great 11 k/9 and 2 BB/9 the last 2 years puts him in elite company and he's one of the league leaders in swinging strikes in the entire majors.

It's the injury history that's a big red flag. Kluber is 2 years older and has a lot more mileage on him. I understand that he'd cost more, but my point is that if you're going to abandon the "don't give up Championships for a championship" mentality that cashman said he has, to me, Kluber or Bumgarner would have been the guy to get.

However, the Red Sox could lose Porcello and Eovaldi and the Yankees adding Paxton could put them over the top, especially if they add Corbin.

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

While I agree with you, it's still a risky move. His numbers are great 11 k/9 and 2 BB/9 the last 2 years puts him in elite company and he's one of the league leaders in swinging strikes in the entire majors.

It's the injury history that's a big red flag. Kluber is 2 years older and has a lot more mileage on him. I understand that he'd cost more, but my point is that if you're going to abandon the "don't give up Championships for a championship" mentality that cashman said he has, to me, Kluber or Bumgarner would have been the guy to get.

However, the Red Sox could lose Porcello and Eovaldi and the Yankees adding Paxton could put them over the top, especially if they add Corbin.

They may still get Kluber.

Also for the Paxton's body of work isn't impressive people...

Fielding Independent Pitching, last 3 seasons, min. 400 IP

Chris Sale, 2.71
Clayton Kershaw, 2.72
Jacob deGrom, 2.87
James Paxton, 2.90
Max Scherzer, 2.93
Corey Kluber, 2.97

 

[pld459666]

Still not sold on the guy, but the way the game is played today, I guess it's ok to pitch, on average, less tha 6 innings a game.

I just dont think we're looking at anything more than a 12-14 game winning, middle of the rotation, starter.

Hope he proves me wrong

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

Still not sold on the guy, but the way the game is played today, I guess it's ok to pitch, on average, less tha 6 innings a game.

I just dont think we're looking at anything more than a 12-14 game winning, middle of the rotation, starter.

Hope he proves me wrong

Nothing about his ability says that you're correct.

Injuries are the only thing that have held him back.

 

[pld459666]

Nothing about his ability says that you're correct.

Injuries are the only thing that have held him back.

Yet, two years in a row he pitches less than 6 innings a game.

If his ability was there, he'd throw less pitches per game allowing him to go deeper.

Like I said, hope I'm wrong.

 

[RGY]

Paxton isn’t an ace. He is a good 2-3 guy. They still need an ace to take the 1 spot away from Sevy. A game 7 type of guy. Kluber or MadBum is that guy.

Sign Machado/Harper.
Sign Murphy
Sign Miller
Re-Sign one of DRob or Britton
Backup plan to the two above is Ottavino
Re-Sign Hechevarria

 

[Cassano]

Paxton's lack of durability is definitely a big concern. But I think for the price paid to get him, it is probably worth it.

 

[Rangerfan4life90]

At the end of the day, Paxton is a borderline #1/elite #2 starter, and he's only 30. It was a great trade.

Guys like Bumgarner and Kluber/Carassco are still very much in play. Can still also sign Corbin if they go that route.

 

[True Blue]

The word is they will entertain offers for him.

That’s about the only guy I’d dangle andujar for. Torres isn’t going anywhere

If you are the Giants and you are entertaining Baumgartner, the conversation only starts and ends with Torres

There’s a reason they’ve loaded up on righty bats, the shift eats up lefties and most of their RH guys can still get it out to right.

There are real arguments against Machado, the side of the plate he hits from is not a good one.

I understand the argument for. But you also do need the ability to break up the righties. Adding another $300 million righty bat is a very good argument against.

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

If you are the Giants and you are entertaining Baumgartner, the conversation only starts and ends with Torres.

That’s a great way to end up with a weaker and or uncertain package from someone else.

They can ask and I’m sure they would, but it won’t happen.

 

[True Blue]

I think they get the other starter via trade. If I'm Cashman, I shop Andujar/Florial package and see who bites.

The answer is no one. The Giants are not going to move without Torres. They have no need to. The Indians would probably take that deal, but if I am the Yankees I am no suddenly depopulating the entire farm system.

I believe the Yankees are signing Machado for third.

This again?? How are they going to afford having 3 players make over $900 million (Judge will be the third).

Hmmm....$300 million contract to a player with a pi$$ poor attitude who does not hustle and shrinks in a big spot? You do know that this is called a sequel, right?

 

[SA16]

Paxton is much better than Bumgarner. He's just always hurt.

Let's see his repeat it

One year doesn't make a career good or bad

He's 13th in the league in WAR since 2016 despite having less innings thrown than everyone ahead of him other than Syndergaard. He's 5th in FIP-. 32nd in ERA-. I'm a Mets fan. Paxton is an elite pitcher.

 

[True Blue]

Okay but they need multiple starters. So you have to do the best you can by breaking up the prospect packages.
Since Sheffield isn't getting you the pitchers you named, a guy like Paxton is likely the next best option. While still having ammo for possibly another TOR starter.

Yes, BUUUUUT:

1. Paxton has been on the DL 5 times in 3 years. That is a lot of DL time.
2. Paxton has only reached 160 innings last year. If you are getting him to be a co-ace, he will need to pitch a lot more than that. Something that he has NEVER done. And he is not a rookie. He is 30.
3. Paxton is going from pitching in a pitchers paradise, to pitching in Yankee Stadium in particular and the AL East in general.
4. Paxton has not had to pitch big innings in a big spot. Not to mention the bright lights of NY.

So, the Yankees have traded 3 prospects, including their top pitching prospect for a guy who may or may not be a late bloomer, has a riddled health history and has not pitched in a media frenzy environment like NY not has had to pitch THE game before. Haven't we seen this movie before? Does not turn out well.

 

[True Blue]

That’s a great way to end up with a weaker and or uncertain package from someone else.

They can ask and I’m sure they would, but it won’t happen.

Then you are not getting Baumgartner.