Player Discussion Mitch Marner - On Hiatus

[Confucius]

He’s not even worth 10.9

Yeah but I know we always overpay so I’ll stick with the 11 prediction. lol!

 

[Hellcat]

“good problem to have” your spoofing us right. We have 1 single round win with this core and you think just because he gets some Selke nominations he is a good problem to have. How many awards has he won as an NHL players to date.

Top 10 - in points since he entered the league, consistently mentioned in the same category as the best defensive forwards in the game, yep a good problem to have. Individually he has been a super star, collectively the team has missed the mark.

Lets say, fantasy land thinking, Berube gets this team to play playoff hockey, this team goes 4 rounds, Mitch does his normal PPG in the playoffs and normal elite defensive game. is Mitch still the problem?

The issue is we dont go deep right?

Yeah but I know we always overpay so I’ll stick with the 11 prediction. lol!

He's getting $12.56m over 8 years... might not be here but he will get his $100mil contract.

 

[thewave]

So why over the past 7 playoffs have Matthews and Nylander both scored 19 goals.

Matthews has won 3 Rockets over the past 5 seasons, but in the playoffs over that period of time Nylander has outscored him the playoffs, 17 - 13.

Is it marner or is it Matthews?

There is an issue on the first line once the real season begins.

I think I addressed it way back. When the game gets heavy Marner disappears and becomes a non factor and Matthews must pick up the slack. He carries Marner in the POs. Thats why when they switch him out with Nylander or Domi suddenly his production rockets.

Its not even arguable.

 

[Racer88]

How can anybody defend this guy after watching that clip and analysis by a former player? It's too bad Berube was not on the panel to give his opinion. Wonder if Berube talked to Mitch about it when they had coffee together.

I don’t know. It boggles the mind

Top 10 - in points since he entered the league, consistently mentioned in the same category as the best defensive forwards in the game, yep a good problem to have. Individually he has been a super star, collectively the team has missed the mark.

Lets say, fantasy land thinking, Berube gets this team to play playoff hockey, this team goes 4 rounds, Mitch does his normal PPG in the playoffs and normal elite defensive game. is Mitch still the problem?

The issue is we dont go deep right?



He's getting $12.56m over 8 years... might not be here but he will get his $100mil contract.

Again I ask how many awards has this awesome player actually won……..he has never even cracked 100 points
Don’t super stars win awards

 

[Confucius]

Top 10 - in points since he entered the league, consistently mentioned in the same category as the best defensive forwards in the game, yep a good problem to have. Individually he has been a super star, collectively the team has missed the mark.

Lets say, fantasy land thinking, Berube gets this team to play playoff hockey, this team goes 4 rounds, Mitch does his normal PPG in the playoffs and normal elite defensive game. is Mitch still the problem?

The issue is we dont go deep right?



He's getting $12.56m over 8 years... might not be here but he will get his $100mil contract.

If he takes 12.56 from another team, I think he’d be worse off than taking 11 from us. Will the other team pay that and frontload it to the max and pay him the max in signing bonus? Will he move from his family and fav team for 1.5 million more, a 12% raise but one less year? I wouldn’t but maybe I’m wrong, we will see.

Edit to add:
I suppose if it’s a sign and trade he still would get an 8 year deal playing somewhere else.

 

[57 Years No Cup]

"But but but Crosby was also called crybaby ! How about that?! " Mitch PR team

"And Conn Smythe Winner McDavid is also a loser! LOLLOLOLOOL!"

-Mitchy Marner Social Media Defense Team-

 

[Kazparov]

So why over the past 7 playoffs have Matthews and Nylander both scored 19 goals.

Matthews has won 3 Rockets over the past 5 seasons, but in the playoffs over that period of time Nylander has outscored him the playoffs, 17 - 13.

Is it marner or is it Matthews?

There is an issue on the first line once the real season begins.

A lot of it is coaching.

You play what you practice all year.

They get reps in all season scoring goals one way.

Then they have to change how they play because the game and reffing changes in the playoffs.

Their only playoff series win was basically the regular season style. They probably deserved to lose that series but just outscored their deficiencies. Exactly how they play in the regular season.

 

[IPS]

Has anyone in here who has argued against some of the marner narratives ever actually claimed that he didn’t play poorly vs Boston?

Yeah, lots actually.

I've heard:

-It was the coach's fault
-Marner was injured
-Marner actually played amazingly but the haters were just to dumb to see it
-Marner was busy shutting down lesser paid Pastrnak
-Marner was just doing everything amazing but Tre's acquisitions were holding him back
-Marner is receiving too much blame relative to the other core members (even though Matthews and Nylander were injured during the series)

Trust me, the entire ringer of excuses has been gone through several times.

 

[IPS]

How can anybody defend this guy after watching that clip and analysis by a former player? It's too bad Berube was not on the panel to give his opinion. Wonder if Berube talked to Mitch about it when they had coffee together.

Jay Rosehill and Sean Avery also called Marner out on his cowardly play.

 

[LeafEgo]

Top 10 - in points since he entered the league, consistently mentioned in the same category as the best defensive forwards in the game, yep a good problem to have. Individually he has been a super star, collectively the team has missed the mark.

Another perspective to take, more aligned with the ultimate objective, is that had we replaced Marner these last eight years with a Domi type and 7M+ to plug our major gaps entering the tournament, as the top contenders do, we would have done much better than 1 for 9, so why not just go ahead and finally do that? When we are able to...

Oilers bucked the trend, but they have an alien on their team that nobody else does. It's not a great model to follow, and we seem to be pretty far away from replicating their success, as expected.

The Capitals made the playoffs last year. There isn't a lot of risk of us missing. That's a good position to be in, and allows us flexibility and focus on the main prize that we aren't taking advantage of.

 

[Leaf Fans]

Yeah, lots actually.

I've heard:

-It was the coach's fault
-Marner was injured
-Marner actually played amazingly but the haters were just to dumb to see it
-Marner was busy shutting down lesser paid Pastrnak
-Marner was just doing everything amazing but Tre's acquisitions were holding him back
-Marner is receiving too much blame relative to the other core members (even though Matthews and Nylander were injured during the series)

Trust me, the entire ringer of excuses has been gone through several times.

Those sound like reasons/excuses why he played poorly, not a claim that he didn't play poorly.

 

[IPS]

Those sound like reasons/excuses why he played poorly, not a claim that he didn't play poorly.

True enough.

I suppose there's like maybe 2 or 3 posters on here who legitimately thought he played well.

 

[Superstar]

So why over the past 7 playoffs have Matthews and Nylander both scored 19 goals.

Matthews has won 3 Rockets over the past 5 seasons, but in the playoffs over that period of time Nylander has outscored him the playoffs, 17 - 13.

Is it marner or is it Matthews?

There is an issue on the first line once the real season begins.

Small sample size, but Matthews and Domi won game 2 for Leafs against Bruins before Matthews got injured. You'd think from some folks here that Marner is the only one in the NHL capable of lobbing that perfect pass to Matthews for the game winner.

Matthews and Domi were also on a tear to finish the season, and I have no doubt that Matthews would have scored 70 goals had Domi not been injured.

Then we have Nylander's game in game 6 to tie the series. What the heck did Marner even do in that 7 game series? Oh right, take the puck around the perimeter when gifted a sure goal by Swayman in game 7 because he didn't want to get hit.

Core needs a shake-up and Marner is the one not signed to an extension out of the 3.

 

[Antropovsky]

Top 10 - in points since he entered the league, consistently mentioned in the same category as the best defensive forwards in the game, yep a good problem to have. Individually he has been a super star, collectively the team has missed the mark.

Lets say, fantasy land thinking, Berube gets this team to play playoff hockey, this team goes 4 rounds, Mitch does his normal PPG in the playoffs and normal elite defensive game. is Mitch still the problem?

The issue is we dont go deep right?



He's getting $12.56m over 8 years... might not be here but he will get his $100mil contract.

It's certainly not the group collectively failing to get it done. Marner has been the team's kryptonite. Not only does he take up 13% of the cap, but he's also dragging his linemates down.

Why don't you explain why this laundry list of problems below doesn’t bother you?

Also, explain the other core 4's comparable issues that bring them in line with Marner:

Laundry list of Marner's playoff problems:

• Shoots from the furthest distance among the core 4, averaging 10' further than the next member and 20' further than the teammate in first. 40' is near the blueline.
• Has the least amount of slot shots among the core 4, 10% less than the next lowest member and 20% worse than the teammate in first.
• Has made by far the most giveaways and mistakes leading to game-winning goals by opponents in critical playoff games (7 in total). Do any of the other core 4 players even have 1?
• Avoids physical play much more than the rest of the core 4. We haven’t seen the extreme avoidance of going into the corner on video for anyone else as we've seen twice for Marner.

Distance of shots from net season vs playoffs.

Percentage of shots from the slot season vs playoffs

 

[Racer88]

It's certainly not the group collectively failing to get it done. Marner has been the team's kryptonite. Not only does he take up 13% of the cap, but he's also dragging his linemates down.

Why don't you explain why this laundry list of problems below doesn’t bother you?

Also, explain the other core 4's comparable issues that bring them in line with Marner:

Laundry list of Marner's playoff problems:

• Shoots from the furthest distance among the core 4, averaging 10' further than the next member and 20' further than the teammate in first. 40' is near the blueline.
• Has the least amount of slot shots among the core 4, 10% less than the next lowest member and 20% worse than the teammate in first.
• Has made by far the most giveaways and mistakes leading to game-winning goals by opponents in critical playoff games (7 in total). Do any of the other core 4 players even have 1?
• Avoids physical play much more than the rest of the core 4. We haven’t seen the extreme avoidance of going into the corner on video for anyone else as we've seen twice for Marner.

Distance of shots from net season vs playoffs.
View attachment 896177

Percentage of shots from the slot season vs playoffs
View attachment 896178

It's certainly not the group collectively failing to get it done. Marner has been the team's kryptonite. Not only does he take up 13% of the cap, but he's also dragging his linemates down.

Why don't you explain why this laundry list of problems below doesn’t bother you?

Also, explain the other core 4's comparable issues that bring them in line with Marner:

Laundry list of Marner's playoff problems:

• Shoots from the furthest distance among the core 4, averaging 10' further than the next member and 20' further than the teammate in first. 40' is near the blueline.
• Has the least amount of slot shots among the core 4, 10% less than the next lowest member and 20% worse than the teammate in first.
• Has made by far the most giveaways and mistakes leading to game-winning goals by opponents in critical playoff games (7 in total). Do any of the other core 4 players even have 1?
• Avoids physical play much more than the rest of the core 4. We haven’t seen the extreme avoidance of going into the corner on video for anyone else as we've seen twice for Marner.

Distance of shots from net season vs playoffs.
View attachment 896177

Percentage of shots from the slot season vs playoffs
View attachment 896178

More evidence that he is not playoff material

 

[Hellcat]

Again I ask how many awards has this awesome player actually won……..he has never even cracked 100 points
Don’t super stars win awards

Not always, PK Subban won the Norris and he was no super star. Awards are recognition voted on by others, if that is the case he's been voted into the All Rookie team and multiple time into the All Star game.

2019-20	AS-5,Byng-30,Selke-33
2020-21	AS-1,Byng-24,Hart-19,Selke-10
2021-22	AS-1,Byng-4,Selke-16
2022-23	AS-5,Byng-23,Hart-13,Selke-3
2023-24	AS-7,Byng-31,Selke-17

It's certainly not the group collectively failing to get it done. Marner has been the team's kryptonite. Not only does he take up 13% of the cap, but he's also dragging his linemates down.

Why don't you explain why this laundry list of problems below doesn’t bother you?

Also, explain the other core 4's comparable issues that bring them in line with Marner:

Laundry list of Marner's playoff problems:

• Shoots from the furthest distance among the core 4, averaging 10' further than the next member and 20' further than the teammate in first. 40' is near the blueline.
• Has the least amount of slot shots among the core 4, 10% less than the next lowest member and 20% worse than the teammate in first.
• Has made by far the most giveaways and mistakes leading to game-winning goals by opponents in critical playoff games (7 in total). Do any of the other core 4 players even have 1?
• Avoids physical play much more than the rest of the core 4. We haven’t seen the extreme avoidance of going into the corner on video for anyone else as we've seen twice for Marner.

Distance of shots from net season vs playoffs.
View attachment 896177

Percentage of shots from the slot season vs playoffs
View attachment 896178

Blah blah blah .. I've asked before, have you ever played the game... do you even know what you are posting?

 

[Hellcat]

A lot of it is coaching.

You play what you practice all year.

They get reps in all season scoring goals one way.

Then they have to change how they play because the game and reffing changes in the playoffs.

Their only playoff series win was basically the regular season style. They probably deserved to lose that series but just outscored their deficiencies. Exactly how they play in the regular season.

Keefe was simply out matched. Problem is the same analytics department that was telling Keefe how to manage is going to be telling Chief how to manage.

Maybe Chief is a stronger personality and will do his thing, vs allowing others to influence him. There has to be accountability on the individual players too.

 

[Racer88]

Not always, PK Subban won the Norris and he was no super star. Awards are recognition voted on by others, if that is the case he's been voted into the All Rookie team and multiple time into the All Star game.

2019-20	AS-5,Byng-30,Selke-33
2020-21	AS-1,Byng-24,Hart-19,Selke-10
2021-22	AS-1,Byng-4,Selke-16
2022-23	AS-5,Byng-23,Hart-13,Selke-3
2023-24	AS-7,Byng-31,Selke-17

Blah blah blah .. I've asked before, have you ever played the game... do you even know what you are posting?

Hahahah the all star stuff is a joke. He has won no personal awards and has not cracked 100 points. He is absolutely not a super star. He is a decent passer but the later rounds of the playoffs are filled with good passers and they do not command the money he does.
He is the product of the leafs hype machine and a rookie weak GM who over paid 4 players and now we are paying the price that will take years to get out from under

 

[Racer88]

Keefe was simply out matched. Problem is the same analytics department that was telling Keefe how to manage is going to be telling Chief how to manage.

Maybe Chief is a stronger personality and will do his thing, vs allowing others to influence him. There has to be accountability on the individual players too.

I hope the Chief bag skates them until they puke the first practice so that they know the ice capades is over. Let them know they are going to work and work hard on his team.
And for the love of God, no crying on the bench or penalty box.

 

[Sundinisagod]

At this point a trade is probably unlikely.

Does Tre have the power to let him walk next summer, or will that decision come from up above? I fear this will be more of a business decision than hockey decision. If we let both Tavares and Marner walk it would be great way to start a much needed reset.

 

[Nineteen67]

Has anyone in here who has argued against some of the marner narratives ever actually claimed that he didn’t play poorly vs Boston?

Seems to me we all agree he was nowhere near good enough. We just unsurprisingly don’t all agree on all the details, his ability and some are less convinced than others of what specific path needs to be taken from here.

At least in Biz’s segment here he gives a variety of examples of the issue he’s speaking to. Most people don’t

Again to put a bow on it. We all seemingly agree that Marner did not play up to the standard we should expect. Some people take it too far and drag things into the discussion that are not always accurate

Some wont evaluate his performance, verbally. What they don’t say, says a lot.

 

[Nineteen67]

At this point a trade is probably unlikely.

Does Tre have the power to let him walk next summer, or will that decision come from up above? I fear this will be more of a business decision than hockey decision. If we let both Tavares and Marner walk it would be great way to start a much needed reset.

From an entertainment standpoint, Marner not planning to re-sign and them having slow start would be media gold. It’s going to be another long year with probably not much to see on the ice again so a little chaos would make the season a little bit interesting.

Having him walk is the easiest thing for them to do, therefore that’s what we should expect of them.

 

[Sundinisagod]

From an entertainment standpoint, Marner not planning to re-sign and them having slow start would be media gold. It’s going to be another long year with probably not much to see on the ice again so a little chaos would make the season a little bit interesting.

Having him walk is the easiest thing for them to do, therefore that’s what we should expect of them.

I think it would be easier for them to re sign him to whatever he wants (considering the finances they have and Tavares off the books plus rising cap). They may fear a backlash over letting walk for nothing. I hope they let him walk, I get Huberdeau/Gaudreau performance vibes for the next contract.

 

[Nineteen67]

Injecting some more reality in the thread because it needs it

https://x.com/i/web/status/1784403936452964722

Somebody please tell Biz he's joined a nasty illogical hate cult and he has no idea what he's watching.

Did sportsnet not have someone giving similar analysis during the playoffs?

Disengaged, disinterested, two playoffs in a row sums it perfectly.

 

[Nineteen67]

I think it would be easier for them to re sign him to whatever he wants (considering the finances they have and Tavares off the books plus rising cap). They may fear a backlash over letting walk for nothing. I hope they let him walk, I get Huberdeau/Gaudreau performance vibes for the next contract.

With a lame duck Shanny I think they’ll wait it out. If they give him 12 x4 after a month or two of shinny, they’ll get roasted even more.