Player Discussion Mitch Marner - On Hiatus

[Sundinisagod]

With a lame duck Shanny I think they’ll wait it out. If they give him 12 x4 after a month or two of shinny, they’ll get roasted even more.

I didn't mention Shanny cuz i think this decision is above him as well.

 

[ULF_55]

At this point a trade is probably unlikely.

Does Tre have the power to let him walk next summer, or will that decision come from up above? I fear this will be more of a business decision than hockey decision. If we let both Tavares and Marner walk it would be great way to start a much needed reset.

Been my position from the beginning.

He'll be re-signed with a raise.
Tavares will be re-signed with a Malkin deal.

With a new boss, Shanahan might resign or be fired by Pelley after another disappointing playoffs.

 

[Sundinisagod]

Been my position from the beginning.

He'll be re-signed with a raise.
Tavares will be re-signed with a Malkin deal.

With a new boss, Shanahan might resign or be fired by Pelley after another disappointing playoffs.

Most likely and most dissapointing outcome imho. Don't think they have the balls to let them walk.

 

[Nineteen67]

Been my position from the beginning.

He'll be re-signed with a raise.
Tavares will be re-signed with a Malkin deal.

With a new boss, Shanahan might resign or be fired by Pelley after another disappointing playoffs.

The Shanahan firing could be sold as change and they wouldn’t need to waste money on any old UFA winding down their career.

 

[hullsy47]

*our best performing depth player had 47 pts per 82 playing little to no PP time on unit 2, and playing a chunk of the year on L3 with knies, jarnkrok, McMann etc

Domi should be a 55-70 point forward if he were to get proper usage and PP time.

We should hope Berube splits the units or drops JT off of unit 1 and brings Domi up there.

Domi also had 4 pts in 7 games in the playoffs same as bertuzzi

Mitchell Marner with 3 in 7
Tavares with 2 in 7
Rielly with 3 in 7

Looks like the core was pretty poor once again

Marner is going to earn every point he gets
If he get 90 under berube .
Sign him

 

[ToneDog]

Matty good friends with Keller so here is a rumour

Keller, who is friends with Matthews, would land in Toronto along with Dylan Guenther and Juuso Valimaki. The Hockey Club, in return, would get Marner, Timothy Liljegren, and Topi Niemela.

Sign me up.

 

[francis246]

Matty good friends with Keller so here is a rumour

Keller, who is friends with Matthews, would land in Toronto along with Dylan Guenther and Juuso Valimaki. The Hockey Club, in return, would get Marner, Timothy Liljegren, and Topi Niemela.

Sign me up.

Do you guys honestly watch hockey? You hate Mitch Marner but you want Clayton Keller on this team?

 

[francis246]

It's certainly not the group collectively failing to get it done. Marner has been the team's kryptonite. Not only does he take up 13% of the cap, but he's also dragging his linemates down.

Why don't you explain why this laundry list of problems below doesn’t bother you?

Also, explain the other core 4's comparable issues that bring them in line with Marner:

Laundry list of Marner's playoff problems:

• Shoots from the furthest distance among the core 4, averaging 10' further than the next member and 20' further than the teammate in first. 40' is near the blueline.
• Has the least amount of slot shots among the core 4, 10% less than the next lowest member and 20% worse than the teammate in first.
• Has made by far the most giveaways and mistakes leading to game-winning goals by opponents in critical playoff games (7 in total). Do any of the other core 4 players even have 1?
• Avoids physical play much more than the rest of the core 4. We haven’t seen the extreme avoidance of going into the corner on video for anyone else as we've seen twice for Marner.

Distance of shots from net season vs playoffs.
View attachment 896177

Percentage of shots from the slot season vs playoffs
View attachment 896178

I understand what you’re trying to say but moving Mitch will not immediately transform this team into a winning hockey team. Might be part one of a number of moves that need to happen. I can easily see the team still failing to have playoff success even by removing Mitch. Not because they removed Mitch but because I think the issues are deeper than just one player. There has to be a culture reset in terms of mindset and play style.

 

[ToneDog]

Do you guys honestly watch hockey? You hate Mitch Marner but you want Clayton Keller on this team?

You are also getting Guenther and dumping Lily. No brainer if not bias.

And you get cap relief and get rid of Marner and his camp.

 

[francis246]

You are also getting Guenther and dumping Lily. No brainer if not bias.

Clayton Keller is a defensive liability. He’s also 2 inches shorter and weighs less the Marner. But he does have a better shot. He’s also a perimeter player, He is not an answer. Jusso… would just rather have Liljegren.

Guenther is nice but still has a lot to prove. He only had 4 more goals than Robertson with a lot more ice time.

 

[ToneDog]

Clayton Keller is a defensive liability. He’s also 2 inches shorter and weighs less the Marner. But he does have a better shot. He’s also a perimeter player, He is not an answer. Jusso… would just rather have Liljegren.

Guenther is nice but still has a lot to prove. He only had 3 more goals that Robertson with a lot more ice time.

Guenther is about to break out. Robbie is what he is. That package is more than fair. You are never getting full value for Marner because of what you have to extend him at.

 

[francis246]

Guenther is about to break out. Robbie is what he is. That package is more than fair. You are never getting full value for Marner because of what you have to extend him at.

All I’m saying is if you’re losing your shit at how Marner plays. I don’t understand how you can watch Keller play and be like, yeah I want that guy in our lineup. Guenther is not enough of a buffer for me to be like Yeah sign me up for a smaller worse defensive top line player.

 

[hamzarocks]

Clayton Keller is a defensive liability. He’s also 2 inches shorter and weighs less the Marner. But he does have a better shot. He’s also a perimeter player, He is not an answer. Jusso… would just rather have Liljegren.

Guenther is nice but still has a lot to prove. He only had 4 more goals than Robertson with a lot more ice time.

The Utah team would never make that trade it is terrible for them

Marner is maybe 1 tier better than Keller but Keller is signed for 7M or so

Guenther had 35 pts in 45 games and is only 21 years of age. He is better asset and projected player than Knies and Cowan so he definately isnt on the table

Valimaki and Lilijgren are pretty similar maybe edge lilijgren but they dont need lilijgren at all with durzi and a couple of other guys already there and signed

Leafs would take this deal and run b/c it wont ever be offered

 

[ToneDog]

All I’m saying is if you’re losing your shit at how Marner plays. I don’t understand how you can watch Keller play and be like, yeah I want that guy in our lineup. Guenther is not enough of a buffer for me to be like Yeah sign me up for a smaller worse defensive top line player.

Beats letting him walk for nothing or paying him $12m and running it back and losing.

The Utah team would never make that trade it is terrible for them

Marner is maybe 1 tier better than Keller but Keller is signer for 7M or so

Guenther had 35 pts in 45 games and is only 21 years of age. He is better asset and projected player than Knies and Cowan so he definately isnt on the table

Valimaki and Lilijgren are pretty similar maybe edge lilijgren but they dont need lilijgren at all with durzi and a couple of other guys already there and signed

Leafs would take this deal and run b/c it wont ever be offered

That is the funny thing. Utah would not make that deal unless the owner has a brain cramp.

 

[hamzarocks]

Beats letting him walk for nothing or paying him $12m and running it back and losing.


That is the funny thing. Utah would not make that deal unless the owner has a brain cramp.

That would legit be a near perfect trade for the leafs

Keller steps in an is a 80-90 pt winger at 7.1M for 4 years which aligns perfectly with our chance of contending as once Matthews current deal expires in 4 years I cant see him or the team being capable of being a playoff team routinely let alone contend for the cup

Guenther comes in and is a ~60 pt winger off the bat on ELC for next year.

Valmaki being a LHD is a bit tricky but his impact is alright for 3LHD role.

Nylander - Matthews - Domi
Keller - Tavares - Guenther
Knies - XXX - Robertson
Jarnkrok - Kampf - McMann

Rielly - Tanev
OEL - McCabe
Valimaki - Benoit

Woll
Stolarz

If this deal was made at the 2024 nhl draft we would have a lot of space to add a very good 3C to the team

Thimk we would have 5M to sign a 3C if we scratched Reeves and Timmins (cap not sent to AHL)

If we sent them down we would have 7M for 3C and better 2LHD

 

[PromisedLand]

Leafs have had no playoff success. Marner is THE primary reason. He bails on hardplays, makes errors that end up in our net, never takes responsibility, makes lion's share of the cap AND wants a hefty pay raise.

And some want Marner re-signed.... what? Logo on the front doesn't matter because name on the back of the jersey is more important huh?

 

[Sundinisagod]

Matty good friends with Keller so here is a rumour

Keller, who is friends with Matthews, would land in Toronto along with Dylan Guenther and Juuso Valimaki. The Hockey Club, in return, would get Marner, Timothy Liljegren, and Topi Niemela.

Sign me up.

That would be an amazing trade for us, but i think the value is much, much lower. We won't get back a 1st line player (unless he comes with an albatross contract) or especially an A propspect. I see more of a late 1st, b/c prospect plus a cap dump or two and we may still need to retain. Marner's existing contract sets a floor that most smart gm's won't touch, not to mention a very difficult group to negotiate with...and thats just the off ice stuff. Personally I'm fine letting him walk, a contract hungry Marner for 1 year is maybe more valuable to us than the meager return. Just don't re sign him, he's the type who will avoid contact and injury risk even more once he's signed (I'm sure he wants 8 yeara).

 

[Sypher04]

Leafs have had no playoff success. Marner is THE primary reason. He bails on hardplays, makes errors that end up in our net, never takes responsibility, makes lion's share of the cap AND wants a hefty pay raise.

And some want Marner re-signed.... what? Logo on the front doesn't matter because name on the back of the jersey is more important huh?

For all Marner’s playoff issues, and yes they exist, I don’t think the bolded is fair at all. There is plenty of blame to go around.

Also your last paragraph is a ridiculous insinuation. Being pro signing Marner, if that is someone’s position, in no way means they think that he’s more important than the team. It just means that they don’t agree with your viewpoint of how this team needs to be changed to find success / or if Marner has the ability to be part of the solution

 

[Stephen]

All I’m saying is if you’re losing your shit at how Marner plays. I don’t understand how you can watch Keller play and be like, yeah I want that guy in our lineup. Guenther is not enough of a buffer for me to be like Yeah sign me up for a smaller worse defensive top line player.

Keller also makes $7.1 million so that could represent a $5.4 million savings on a potential $12.5 million contract for Marner. So whatever downgrade you take on Keller could help you get another quality player.

 

[francis246]

Keller also makes $7.1 million so that could represent a $5.4 million savings on a potential $12.5 million contract for Marner. So whatever downgrade you take on Keller could help you get another quality player.

Potentially, I still think the deal sucks. Just because I don’t think we are honestly getting better. It’s the same team with worse version of Marner who is a little bit cheaper. Value wise yes it’s good value for Marner but I don’t think it solves any of our problems and you have to basically bank on Guenther becoming a great player and not taking a step back on a team that doesn’t even give secondary players PP time.

Nothing really to do with keeping Marner. I just don’t understand the point of the trade. I rather get an impact defenseman back instead of Keller.

 

[Mess]

Matty good friends with Keller so here is a rumour

Keller, who is friends with Matthews, would land in Toronto along with Dylan Guenther and Juuso Valimaki. The Hockey Club, in return, would get Marner, Timothy Liljegren, and Topi Niemela.

Sign me up.

Fuel for the Fire. .. Matthews and Keller are close friends dating back to their days together in the US Development program. Matthews and Keller are spending time together this summer doesn't necessarily mean anything in terms of an imminent trade. Matthews and Keller have long been close, and often train together in the summers.

Auston Matthews’ recent posts on social media lead to crazy speculation!​

Hinting at a wild move in Toronto?

With all the trade rumours swirling around in Toronto, it was no surprise when a new speculation was added to the mix. Thanks to Maple Leafs star forward Auston Matthews, who got fans reacting to his recent post on social media in which the superstar shared a picture linking him to former Arizona Coyotes now Utah Hockey Club forward Clayton Keller.

In the Instagram story from Matthews’ account, that was shared all over the place on X, the Leafs’ forward’s dog is having a play date with Keller’s pup. Which means the two players are hanging and fans quickly went back to a previous rumour that once linked Keller to a possible trade to Toronto.

 

[Aashir]

Potentially, I still think the deal sucks. Just because I don’t think we are honestly getting better. It’s the same team with worse version of Marner who is a little bit cheaper. Value wise yes it’s good value for Marner but I don’t think it solves any of our problems and you have to basically bank on Guenther becoming a great player and not taking a step back on a team that doesn’t even give secondary players PP time.

Nothing really to do with keeping Marner. I just don’t understand the point of the trade. I rather get an impact defenseman back instead of Keller.

You don’t see how we get better?

We get 70-80 (maybe more) points from Keller + 45-55 (if guenther doesn’t improve at age 21) at under 9 million for another year and we don’t get better?

We would get deeper, we could run two pp units to maybe help us not get it shutdown in the playoffs everytime. We could get more scoring in the playoffs from both of them. We could use the cap savings to grab another bottom six piece or a better defender than Liljegren.

We could run a RW line of Keller-Nylander-Guenther-Jarnkrok or we could shift someone to LW and create a great top six.

if Marner leaving is going to leave a big hole, than this trade would’ve been perfect at the draft to plug that hole and then some.

 

[Mess]

Keller also makes $7.1 million so that could represent a $5.4 million savings on a potential $12.5 million contract for Marner. So whatever downgrade you take on Keller could help you get another quality player.

Keller will score more goals than Marner at $7.1 mil than Mitch does and $10.9 and will at $12.5 mil.

I can say that because despite limited teammate support in Arizona Keller already outscores Marner playing with AM, WN and JT.

I suggest the extra cap space be used on a player like Lawson Crouse ($4.3 mil X 3 more years) & Keller @ ($7.15 mil X 4 years) = Combined = $ 11.45 mil

6-4 / 215 lbs Crouse would be the perfect powerforward missing from Leafs top 6.

Marner + Robertson + Lilegeren for Keller and Crouse.

 

[francis246]

You don’t see how we get better?

We get 70-80 (maybe more) points from Keller + 45-55 (if guenther doesn’t improve at age 21) at under 9 million for another year and we don’t get better?

We would get deeper, we could run two pp units to maybe help us not get it shutdown in the playoffs everytime. We could get more scoring in the playoffs from both of them. We could use the cap savings to grab another bottom six piece or a better defender than Liljegren.

We could run a RW line of Keller-Nylander-Guenther-Jarnkrok or we could shift someone to LW and create a great top six.

if Marner leaving is going to leave a big hole, than this trade would’ve been perfect at the draft to plug that hole and then some.

The only good potential in the deal is Guenther. The cap space is nice but UFA is over who are we spending that money on? Also in the deal we don’t get a first or any flippable assets so we can acquire a player to utilize the cap space. So we are gonna have to wait for a year to utilize the cap space.

I’m not sure if you’ve watched Keller play but go watch Arizona’s playoff goals in the one year they made the playoffs(2020 bubble). Keller scored 4 but 2 of them were in a blow out and off breakaways. 1 off a power play 1 timer. The same exact shit people complain that Marner does, Keller does even worse. Get Crouse if you want someone who is going to actually impact the team in a different way and play a different style.

 

[PromisedLand]

For all Marner’s playoff issues, and yes they exist, I don’t think the bolded is fair at all. There is plenty of blame to go around.

Also your last paragraph is a ridiculous insinuation. Being pro signing Marner, if that is someone’s position, in no way means they think that he’s more important than the team. It just means that they don’t agree with your viewpoint of how this team needs to be changed to find success / or if Marner has the ability to be part of the solution

Marner is most defintely primary reason for why Leafs fail. Look at the goals against as just few examples I posted (there are many more btw...) see post below I won't re-hash it

Player Discussion - Mitch Marner - Marnerites edition

You're right, this topic is serious. Why would a successful owner of a Facebook sports group lie? I'm mostly being a dick, I have no clue how trustworthy he is and wouldn't be surprised if we at least explore an extension. ya the guy has sources via the blue jays, no clue on leafs stuff , but...

forums.hfboards.com

being pro-marner is most definitely the position that a player > team. What justification is there (given post above), Marner's cap hit, him not taking any responsibility for Leafs' failure or his own play, blaming everyone else except himself that the pro-marner crowd is putting team ahead of player?

8 years worth of evidence. He refuses to play near the boards, take a hit to make the play, and bails every time he sees a hit coming. Takes longer route to the puck to avoid any physicality. And from gm 5 to gm 7 his stats are laughable in a long sample size.

Its teh same craziness that some had for Holl. Enough is enough already! The stockholm syndrome needs to end. If one is truly the fan of the team they must demand changes especially player personnel and it starts with marner. Keep doing the same thing again and again and expecting different results is a strategy that is just facepalm worthy. Its like paying an employee and keeping them employed when they continue to screw everything, and then give them a raise (marner's new contract); for doing the same crappy job they've always done.

When does this madness end? When?