Player Discussion Mitch Marner - On Hiatus

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Will Marner be traded this off season?


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AvroArrow

Mitch "The God" Marner
Jun 10, 2011
18,803
19,958
Toronto
So it's an opinion that can't be quantified?
Dude if you're a grown man and you need someone to explain the definition of the word ,effort, to you I can't help you.

Effort, go read a dictionary or google the meaning. Or if you're a visual learner take a look at Kobe Bryants training/nutrition plan and his commitment to it.
 

Antropovsky

Registered User
Jun 2, 2007
14,831
6,445
Effort not staring blindly at a stat sheet, there is no statistic to measure effort, it's something that requires a person to actually watch the game and see the level of intensity an individual plays with.
I mean...this year what would the Leafs have done without Marners 1.14 extra per 5v5 shot per game in the playoffs? I mean thats what I call 11 million well spent. Im shocked he was able to get 1 on net per game, let alone 1.14!
 

Hellcat

Registered User
Jul 13, 2022
2,805
2,563
Dude if you're a grown man and you need someone to explain the definition of the word ,effort, to you I can't help you.

Effort, go read a dictionary or google the meaning. Or if you're a visual learner take a look at Kobe Bryants training/nutrition plan and his commitment to it.

Ohhh.. I would never be mistaken as a "grown" man... the reason why I ask the questions is because the goal posts on what is and isn't important for a hockey player have been moved so many times, they are buried under ground.

If you are leaving it up to the individual to define effort, one might say every shift, all the time, while another might be more reasonable and say 80% of the time. One person may see a play as pure effort and another might say no that is skill. Just trying to lay down the rules of the game so the goal post are not moved again. :)

Is the Edmonton goal high skill or high effort or both? CBJ goal high skill or high effort or both? NYR goal high skill or high effort or both? FLA goal high skill or high effort or both? Sharks goal at 3:10 high skill or high effort or both?



It was an effort for me to listen to that music.

I mean...this year what would the Leafs have done without Marners 1.14 extra per 5v5 shot per game in the playoffs? I mean thats what I call 11 million well spent. Im shocked he was able to get 1 on net per game, let alone 1.14!

Money seems to be important to you. How much did the Leafs pay Marner in the playoffs? Approx?
 
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ToneDog

56 years and counting. #FireTheShanaClan!
Jun 11, 2017
25,499
24,782
Richmond Hill, ON
Imagine if Marner put in as much effort as his fanboys put in defending him, we'd all be a big happy family right now
The effort by Marner and Nylander on the Pasta OT series winner was elite embarrassing. Rielly and Sammy were also garbage but there you have 3 of your core 5 sucking ass in game 7 OT.
 

thewave

Registered User
Jun 17, 2011
41,252
11,502
Ohhh.. I would never be mistaken as a "grown" man... the reason why I ask the questions is because the goal posts on what is and isn't important for a hockey player have been moved so many times, they are buried under ground.

If you are leaving it up to the individual to define effort, one might say every shift, all the time, while another might be more reasonable and say 80% of the time. One person may see a play as pure effort and another might say no that is skill. Just trying to lay down the rules of the game so the goal post are not moved again. :)

Is the Edmonton goal high skill or high effort or both? CBJ goal high skill or high effort or both? NYR goal high skill or high effort or both? FLA goal high skill or high effort or both? Sharks goal at 3:10 high skill or high effort or both?



It was an effort for me to listen to that music.



Money seems to be important to you. How much did the Leafs pay Marner in the playoffs? Approx?

Super burn .... even a dog knows when to stop, they just keep coming back for more and more (queue video) ....



The only burn is they arent even contenders and all want to be paid as much or more than consistently top 4 or 5 players who have won the cup. The only burn is the fire that should be up the fans asses that are getting gouged and told to trust the plan for decades while they onlook the incompetence and Leafs Drama unfold.

Then we have the little issue of blind faithful in here that are so strong in support beyond rational reasoning that any intelligent onlooker is suspicious as to the motives.
 

AvroArrow

Mitch "The God" Marner
Jun 10, 2011
18,803
19,958
Toronto
Ohhh.. I would never be mistaken as a "grown" man... the reason why I ask the questions is because the goal posts on what is and isn't important for a hockey player have been moved so many times, they are buried under ground.

If you are leaving it up to the individual to define effort, one might say every shift, all the time, while another might be more reasonable and say 80% of the time. One person may see a play as pure effort and another might say no that is skill. Just trying to lay down the rules of the game so the goal post are not moved again. :)

Is the Edmonton goal high skill or high effort or both? CBJ goal high skill or high effort or both? NYR goal high skill or high effort or both? FLA goal high skill or high effort or both? Sharks goal at 3:10 high skill or high effort or both?



It was an effort for me to listen to that music.



Money seems to be important to you. How much did the Leafs pay Marner in the playoffs? Approx?

Enjoy the beautiful summer morning Paul, nice warm Saturday
 

Antropovsky

Registered User
Jun 2, 2007
14,831
6,445
How dare you! Marner is the hardest working, most clutch playoff performer in the league! Always shows up when it matters and leads by example. We should be paying him 11 or even 12+ Mil and have 0 expectations in return! The guy has his own life you know, it would be extremely rude of you to want him to perform up to his contract, what a ridiculous take. Don't you know we're paying him 11M just to be blessed by the presence of a God ? Thou shall not have any expectations or demands from Marner, we should instead get bent over in every negotiation and be happy he graced us with his presence.
.... no its "Marner cares ALOT!"

Actual footagge of Marner caring ALOT.

 

BrannigansLaw

Grown Man
Sponsor
Sep 3, 2006
12,178
11,728
Boston, MA
.... no its "Marner cares ALOT!"

Actual footagge of Marner caring ALOT.



If you ask some posters here (we all know who I’m talking about), they’ll tell you Marner is trying to angle his body to cut off the outlet pass on that play instead of being a brainless bruiser taking a hit to get possession. What we actually see instead is him basically shitting his pants and giving McAvoy a sissy shove from behind instead of doing either of those things.

I don’t know how anyone who actually watches hockey can defend that play. 90 pts, selke nomination, who cares. You don’t win when your top guys play like that in the postseason.
 

Sypher04

Registered User
Jan 20, 2011
12,522
11,275
If you ask some posters here (we all know who I’m talking about), they’ll tell you Marner is trying to angle his body to cut off the outlet pass on that play instead of being a brainless bruiser taking a hit to get possession. What we actually see instead is him basically shitting his pants and giving McAvoy a sissy shove from behind instead of doing either of those things.

I don’t know how anyone who actually watches hockey can defend that play. 90 pts, selke nomination, who cares. You don’t win when your top guys play like that in the postseason.

Call me a marner defender or apologist (or whatever people are calling anyone these days that disagrees with the mob regarding Mitch) if you so wish, but I see this clip posted all the time and I think it’s pretty worthless.

Don’t get me wrong, it’s a bad look. But i think you can make any player look bad if you are motivated to do so and only need to single out one play to make your case.

If someone had put together a longer clip showing this as a pattern of behavior, which honestly they might be able to do, only then would I place any value in it.
 

BrannigansLaw

Grown Man
Sponsor
Sep 3, 2006
12,178
11,728
Boston, MA
Call me a marner defender or apologist (or whatever people are calling anyone that disagrees with the mob regarding Mitch) if you so wish, but I see this clip posted all the time and I think it’s pretty worthless.

Don’t get me wrong, it’s a bad look. But i think you can make any player look bad if you are motivated to do so and only need to single out one play to make your case.

If someone had put together a clip showing this as a pattern of behavior, which honestly they might be able to do, only then would I place more value in it.

I don’t think you are a defender or an apologist but do you actually think he’s absorbing hits the rest of the time to make plays? He’s not. This is just a particularly awful example and it happened in the playoffs. When he actually does try to angle himself to block the pass, it almost always goes right by his little ass and out.

Putting together clips isn’t going to convince anyone of anything on here.
 

ToneDog

56 years and counting. #FireTheShanaClan!
Jun 11, 2017
25,499
24,782
Richmond Hill, ON
If you ask some posters here (we all know who I’m talking about), they’ll tell you Marner is trying to angle his body to cut off the outlet pass on that play instead of being a brainless bruiser taking a hit to get possession. What we actually see instead is him basically shitting his pants and giving McAvoy a sissy shove from behind instead of doing either of those things.

I don’t know how anyone who actually watches hockey can defend that play. 90 pts, selke nomination, who cares. You don’t win when your top guys play like that in the postseason.
This 1000%. 1 and 8 in playoff series proves it. If not for Vasi, it would be 0-9.
 

hamzarocks

Registered User
Jul 22, 2012
21,193
14,612
Pickering, Ontario
I think it was 4 players making up that total, Florda also had a similar cap allocation the year before this one (it included dead cap space and a goalie who started as a backup).

To be fair, the argument always changes, it was "no one making 10 million won", "can't have so much cap tied up into so few players", "can't have so much cap tied up in so few forwards", and now I am seeing "can't have so much cap tied up into so few forwards who play the same way".

The issue is less about cap allocation and more about no one stepping up (this includes depth).

The Panthers had $6 million in dead cap before last year and Edmonton had Nurse and Ceci making $13 million last year.

There are overpayments and poor cap management on every team.

The issue for the Leafs is every star player has stepped up at some point, but none of them have done it consistently or for long enough stretches, and it is always staggered and never in the same year.

That is a huge issue.

Another issue is depth scoring has never got it done either (ROR was our best piece, but not sure he is depth), which is not a cap issue, and we have tried a ton of different depth pieces, people thought Bertuzzi and Domi were our saviors this year. Outside of ROR, our best-performing depth has been able to score at a pace of 47pts/82gms.

We have had varying issues yearly in the playoffs, but pretending that it is only the core 4 that is a problem is where people seem to take offense. I know personally, that it is why I defend them, not because I think the criticism is unwarranted, it is because the criticism is more than they deserve, they deserve some, but not all. This thread is a perfect example because Marner has struggled in some series, but his series where he has played well are now void and forgotten, he has not been bad for 8 years, in every series, and people can't seem to handle that point of view.
*our best performing depth player had 47 pts per 82 playing little to no PP time on unit 2, and playing a chunk of the year on L3 with knies, jarnkrok, McMann etc

Domi should be a 55-70 point forward if he were to get proper usage and PP time.

We should hope Berube splits the units or drops JT off of unit 1 and brings Domi up there.

Domi also had 4 pts in 7 games in the playoffs same as bertuzzi

Mitchell Marner with 3 in 7
Tavares with 2 in 7
Rielly with 3 in 7

Looks like the core was pretty poor once again
 
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hamzarocks

Registered User
Jul 22, 2012
21,193
14,612
Pickering, Ontario
The effort by Marner and Nylander on the Pasta OT series winner was elite embarrassing. Rielly and Sammy were also garbage but there you have 3 of your core 5 sucking ass in game 7 OT.
Might as well include John Tavares. No idea what his dumb ass was doing on the ice in Game 7 OT

Leafs need a 2C a 1LW a 1RHD to be added to the core

Tavares f***s off in a year and use the space for a cheaper and better 2C

Marner should have been dealt for a combo of both or at least 1 of those Ideally the 1RHD

1LW maybe Cowan develops into that in 2 years
 
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Hellcat

Registered User
Jul 13, 2022
2,805
2,563
Call me a marner defender or apologist (or whatever people are calling anyone these days that disagrees with the mob regarding Mitch) if you so wish, but I see this clip posted all the time and I think it’s pretty worthless.

Don’t get me wrong, it’s a bad look. But i think you can make any player look bad if you are motivated to do so and only need to single out one play to make your case.

If someone had put together a longer clip showing this as a pattern of behavior, which honestly they might be able to do, only then would I place any value in it.

Any player can look bad at any given time, they are not robots, they have brain cramps, they might be coming back from a high ankle sprain, they might be cheating for points. End of the day you got a 100 point winger who gets Selke vote every year, this is a good problem to have.

 

Antropovsky

Registered User
Jun 2, 2007
14,831
6,445
I don’t think you are a defender or an apologist but do you actually think he’s absorbing hits the rest of the time to make plays? He’s not. This is just a particularly awful example and it happened in the playoffs. When he actually does try to angle himself to block the pass, it almost always goes right by his little ass and out.

Putting together clips isn’t going to convince anyone of anything on here.
Exactly...

It really makes a heck of alot of sense why he is very bad at playoffs. He is in the bottom 50% in speed and shot speed, he fears contact and hes physically among the most undersized players. Hes at an incredible disadvantage out there.

He doesnt have the strength to cycle, he doesnt have the speed to create space, he doesnt have shot speed to shoot from far and he doesnt have the courage to get close to the goalie to get garbage goals.
 

Hellcat

Registered User
Jul 13, 2022
2,805
2,563
Might as well include John Tavares. No idea what his dumb ass was doing on the ice in Game 7 OT

Leafs need a 2C a 1LW a 1RHD to be added to the core

Tavares f***s off in a year and use the space for a cheaper and better 2C

Marner should have been dealt for a combo of both or at least 1 of those Ideally the 1RHD

1LW maybe Cowan develops into that in 2 years

If people dont like Marners game, Cownan is a clone of Marner, on ice he looks and plays identical to Marner.
 
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hamzarocks

Registered User
Jul 22, 2012
21,193
14,612
Pickering, Ontario
If people dont like Marners game, Cownan is a clone of Marner, on ice he looks and plays identical to Marner.
That would suck, dont want a guy who plays from the point and refuses to play infront or behind the net like marner come playoffs.

Hopefully we develop Cowan to not try and play like a point man like Marner seems to be
 

Hellcat

Registered User
Jul 13, 2022
2,805
2,563
Exactly...

It really makes a heck of alot of sense why he is very bad at playoffs. He is in the bottom 50% in speed and shot speed, he fears contact and hes physically among the most undersized players. Hes at an incredible disadvantage out there.

He doesnt have the strength to cycle, he doesnt have the speed to create space, he doesnt have shot speed to shoot from far and he doesnt have the courage to get close to the goalie to get garbage goals.

What is your agenda, everything you say is easily refuted by video, stats, reality..



That would suck, dont want a guy who plays from the point and refuses to play infront or behind the net like marner come playoffs.

Hopefully we develop Cowan to not try and play like a point man like Marner seems to be

 
Last edited:

hamzarocks

Registered User
Jul 22, 2012
21,193
14,612
Pickering, Ontario
What is your agenda, everything you say is easily refuted but video, stats, reality..






That is not how marner plays in the playoffs. Marner wont ever take the puck to the net or try to cut down the center of the ice very often

Look at his shots vs Boston and Flordia and he was shooting consistantly from the perimeter which doesnt make sense sinces hes not a sniper like Matthews or has an elite shot like Nylander.

Maybe it was keefe but marner used to go to the net and get more in tight chances and chance generation on his elc years from 2017 to 2019 under babcock as compared to his play under Keefe vs CBJ, MTL, FLR, and BoS.

We will see if it was keefe now with Berube here, if marner continues to play a perimeter oriented style in the playoffs unlikely he will have success
 
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