Player Discussion Mitch Marner - On Hiatus

[57 Years No Cup]

One thing I've realized this summer is there are few Leaf fans out there that should probably wear a helmet full time.
Believing he has no value because he hasn't been traded is some pretty special (ed) type thinking.
Hopefully they're just trolling, if not yikes! good luck to them.

He has value, just not the value you and the rest of the Marner camp, and especially Mitchy himself, think he does.

 

[57 Years No Cup]

This is the logic that they use, we made a prediction that Mitch would be traded, he didn't get traded so must be Mitch's value vs realty, he was never on the trade market to begin with. They think they are never wrong, so the fact that they were wrong about their prediction, means it must be someone else's fault, can't be that they dont have a clue ... Mitch is going to sign around $12.5 mil 7 to 8 years. Is it good to be trotting out a core of players that have proven they can't win, nope... is it likely that Tree is risk adverse and would prefer status quo vs taking a home run swing ... yep... he traded a cornerstone star once and got royally fleeced ... not sure he has the stones to try that again.



Cool, how many amateur or professional sports team has she been employed by?

This will be my last reply to you before I block you, because your vested interested ass is so transparent.

 

[Superstar]

Yeah well, don't put much faith in guys that have to report something, not much different than guys on here. Now if there is a reporter out there who is always correct, well that may be different.

Secondly, its a negotiation, ask for all you want getting it is quite different.

You don't need to listen to so called "insiders", but that's what they know...you could simply use your reasoning and past history on Marner's attitude to come to a very simple conclusion...Matthews got $13.25 million AAV, Nylander got $11.5 million AAV...Marner thinks he's better than Willy, closer to Matthews' money, so where do you think he lands even if you discount what so called "insiders" know? Unless, one is oblivious to all things Leafs regarding this core and their contracts, past and present, claiming ignorance doesn't excuse what we know about Marner and what he wants.

 

[Racer88]

Not having depth is a big problem.. I think it’s also naive to believe that this core will magically get will magically get it done. They haven’t proven otherwise. But honestly all it takes is for one good playoffs for the narrative to change. I hope for all our sakes they give us the playoffs of a lifetime this year. Would be nice to see everyone come together for a long playoff run. Tired of arguing lmao

I would love for them to go on an epic run. I would love to be able to cheer for this core, I’m just not sure it will ever happen

 

[Dough72]

Yep... maybe marner will be lucky and reach one of the all time greats...Ryan Nugent Hopkins career high of 104 points?

Lol your all excited about an 11 million dollar player hitting 99 points while playing with Austin Matthews... a player voted by the NHL players as the leagues best player a couple seasons ago and also a finalist this season (selected over Connor Mcdavid). Look what stats oilers playerd have wirh Mcdavid. Not breaking 100 points os more pathetic than impressive.

Too bad Matthees has been shackled to Marner, otherwise hed be closer to Kucherov and Mackinnon...as these stats prove. Marner is such an amazing playet, yet hes literally dragging Matthews stats down:

2023 5v5 Matthews points per 60:
Matthews w/Marner
2.00 p/60 in 539 mins
Matthews w/Nylander:
3.38 p/60 In 504 mins

2024
Matthews w/Marner:
2.75 p/60
Matthews w/Nylander:
3.11 p/60
Matthews w/Domi:
4.93 p/60
Matthews w/Bertuzzi:
3.35 p/60

interesting but hardly a mike-drop moment. The Domi and Bertuzzi stats are pretty solid evidence why fans shouldn't rely so much on stats. Nylander is debatable but Auston Matthews himself prefers Marner so, yeah.

 

[Antropovsky]

interesting but hardly a mike-drop moment. The Domi and Bertuzzi stats are pretty solid evidence why fans shouldn't rely so much on stats. Nylander is debatable but Auston Matthews himself prefers Marner so, yeah.

Yep... he prefers Marner but chose Reilly, Nylander first on his All Star roster before choosing Marner.

 

[Confucius]

You don't need to listen to so called "insiders", but that's what they know...you could simply use your reasoning and past history on Marner's attitude to come to a very simple conclusion...Matthews got $13.25 million AAV, Nylander got $11.5 million AAV...Marner thinks he's better than Willy, closer to Matthews' money, so where do you think he lands even if you discount what so called "insiders" know? Unless, one is oblivious to all things Leafs regarding this core and their contracts, past and present, claiming ignorance doesn't excuse what we know about Marner and what he wants.

He’ll take 11 and we will give it to him. So yes, Less than William

 

[Captain Crunch]

I think it was 4 players making up that total, Florda also had a similar cap allocation the year before this one (it included dead cap space and a goalie who started as a backup).

To be fair, the argument always changes, it was "no one making 10 million won", "can't have so much cap tied up into so few players", "can't have so much cap tied up in so few forwards", and now I am seeing "can't have so much cap tied up into so few forwards who play the same way".

The issue is less about cap allocation and more about no one stepping up (this includes depth).

The Panthers had $6 million in dead cap before last year and Edmonton had Nurse and Ceci making $13 million last year.

There are overpayments and poor cap management on every team.

The issue for the Leafs is every star player has stepped up at some point, but none of them have done it consistently or for long enough stretches, and it is always staggered and never in the same year.

That is a huge issue.

Another issue is depth scoring has never got it done either (ROR was our best piece, but not sure he is depth), which is not a cap issue, and we have tried a ton of different depth pieces, people thought Bertuzzi and Domi were our saviors this year. Outside of ROR, our best-performing depth has been able to score at a pace of 47pts/82gms.

We have had varying issues yearly in the playoffs, but pretending that it is only the core 4 that is a problem is where people seem to take offense. I know personally, that it is why I defend them, not because I think the criticism is unwarranted, it is because the criticism is more than they deserve, they deserve some, but not all. This thread is a perfect example because Marner has struggled in some series, but his series where he has played well are now void and forgotten, he has not been bad for 8 years, in every series, and people can't seem to handle that point of view.

Go back and check his playoff stats, and the rest of the core, over the last 5 playoffs (games 5-7, Columbus series games 3-5) and tell me what you think.

 

[Captain Crunch]

Pretending like those things haven’t impacted success is also a bad idea. The leafs management has brought a lot of it on themselves. But Covid definitely derailed their plans.

Andersen getting injured/refusing to play against Montreal was brutal. Imagine we had him healthy and in the right mindset to play, we probably close out that series.

Tavares getting injured in game 1 in the fashion he did sucked ass.

Woll getting injured this year right before game 7. So having to play Samsonov.

This past year Matthews and Nylander not at one hundred percent. They aren’t excuses.

These are things that have actually impacted winning but you gotta find a way to move past those issues.

So how many years of playoff failure do we attribute to this "bad luck"?

 

[francis246]

Yep... he prefers Marner but chose Reilly, Nylander first on his All Star roster before choosing Marner.

Are we really reading into something that was 100% scripted for entertainment and TV purposes?

The All-Star draft is predetermined and then scripted based on what will make compelling TV. Producers understand that the idea of Matthews maybe not choosing Mitch will draw ratings and be a bigger story line. You won’t get that same draw if Marner was the first pick, that’s a very predictable thing to happen.

 

[Hellcat]

This will be my last reply to you before I block you, because your vested interested ass is so transparent.

One fewer "make shit up" crowd to deal with... How will I ever recover...?

 

[Hellcat]

Yep... maybe marner will be lucky and reach one of the all time greats...Ryan Nugent Hopkins career high of 104 points?

Lol your all excited about an 11 million dollar player hitting 99 points while playing with Austin Matthews... a player voted by the NHL players as the leagues best player a couple seasons ago and also a finalist this season (selected over Connor Mcdavid). Look what stats oilers playerd have wirh Mcdavid. Not breaking 100 points os more pathetic than impressive.

Too bad Matthees has been shackled to Marner, otherwise hed be closer to Kucherov and Mackinnon...as these stats prove. Marner is such an amazing playet, yet hes literally dragging Matthews stats down:

2023 5v5 Matthews points per 60:
Matthews w/Marner
2.00 p/60 in 539 mins
Matthews w/Nylander:
3.38 p/60 In 504 mins

2024
Matthews w/Marner:
2.75 p/60
Matthews w/Nylander:
3.11 p/60
Matthews w/Domi:
4.93 p/60
Matthews w/Bertuzzi:
3.35 p/60

Based on comparable career shapes, he is on a HOF career pace, I get you have an unusual fixation and a red hot hatred of a man you've never met, which blinds you to common sense, his first 8 years is comparable to some all time ELITE greats (Similarity score) HOFer's Peter Stastny, Dale Hawerchuk, Cy Denneny, Peter Forsberg, Luc Robitaille, Marcel Dionne, when you are mentioned in the same breath as those players, WOW he must be doing something right.. lots of numbers here but I think we can all agree, Mitch is a great player, we are lucky to have him.

Did you know McDavid is on the trading block, zero points in Games 6 and 7, apparently if you don't perform in the biggest games, it's the law that you have to be traded. Barkov? 1 point in games 5, 6, 7... clearly the poster boy for suck-a-tude ... he sucks and must be relegated to the AHL ... who would want those two losers, not performing in the biggest games of their career? Clearly judging a player on a small sample size, be it 3 games or 15 games is the way to go.

 

[Hellcat]

Yep... he prefers Marner but chose Reilly, Nylander first on his All Star roster before choosing Marner.

 

[Rielly4]

I really think they need to move Marner to 2C. He has all the tools and abilities to play centre and I think he would be way more valuable at 5 on 5 in that position.

 

[Captain Crunch]

Are we really reading into something that was 100% scripted for entertainment and TV purposes?

The All-Star draft is predetermined and then scripted based on what will make compelling TV. Producers understand that the idea of Matthews maybe not choosing Mitch will draw ratings and be a bigger story line. You won’t get that same draw if Marner was the first pick, that’s a very predictable thing to happen.

You’re probably right, but wouldn’t it have been even more entertaining if the other 3 captains had done the same thing? Guess the TV producers didn’t think that would help improve the ratings.

 

[ACC1224]

Are we really reading into something that was 100% scripted for entertainment and TV purposes?

The All-Star draft is predetermined and then scripted based on what will make compelling TV. Producers understand that the idea of Matthews maybe not choosing Mitch will draw ratings and be a bigger story line. You won’t get that same draw if Marner was the first pick, that’s a very predictable thing to happen.

You know the thread has bottomed out when something as dumb as what you replied to is offered.
Didn’t Kessel go last one year? He must be absolutely loathed league wide.

 

[Hellcat]

I really think they need to move Marner to 2C. He has all the tools and abilities to play centre and I think he would be way more valuable at 5 on 5 in that position.

He is an elite forward, has the defensive acumen, has the passing ability but not sure if I see Marner as a Center. Interesting idea though, it would solve the hole opened with JT moving on in a year... Domi in a very small sample size looks like he fits well with AM. Marner at center could at Cowan under wing (pun intended ) . Very interesting suggestion.

 

[Hellcat]

You know the thread has bottomed out when something as dumb as what you replied to is offered.
Didn’t Kessel go last one year? He must be absolutely loathed league wide.

TBH the standard that the Marner Lynch Mob has set is not very high.

(Great movie anyone know which one?)

 

[thewave]

I have concluded that the people defending a 12.5m+ Marner premise have either a relationship or vested interest in his success monitarily.

For those that love reality and for the last time before they make 66 pages of how awesome Mitch the dishes is.

Matthews slight overpay 500k - 1m
Nylander 2-2.5m overpay
Marner @12.5m 3m overpay

Matthews plays better with guys like Domi and Nylander than Marner.

Marner does not like physical playoff series. Can not seem to perform in high stakes

Marner seems to have a fragile ego as evidenced by his glove chucking and crying during game. Contrast guy like Roberts would be hunting numbers and getting his bench going.

So he has no real leadership value. William Nylander has more just by way of being clutch.

So concludes me in the Ditch Mitch Marner thread.

 

[Nineteen67]

Maybe one year Matty will score 69 goals. Maybe Mitch will have two season in a row where he scores 99 points or have a pace at 99 points or greater... until then we can only wait....

Did you know that Mitch first 8 years has Similarity score comparable to HOFer's Peter Stastny, Dale Hawerchuk, Cy Denneny, Peter Forsberg, Luc Robitaille, Marcel Dionne, when you are mentioned in the same breath as those players.. WOW he must be doing something right.. lots of numbers here but I think we can all agree, Mitch is a great player, we are lucky to have him.

without using a number, how would summarize his performance in the playoffs?

I have concluded that the people defending a 12.5m+ Marner premise have either a relationship or vested interest in his success monitarily.

For those that love reality and for the last time before they make 66 pages of how awesome Mitch the dishes is.

Matthews slight overpay
Nylander 2-2.5m overpay
Marner @12.5m 3m overpay

Matthews plays better with guys like Domi and Nylander than Marner.

Marner does not like physical playoff series. Can not seem to perform in high stakes

Marner seems to have a fragile ego as evidenced by his glove chucking and crying during game. Contrast guy like Roberts would be hunting numbers and getting his bench going.

So he has no real leadership value. William Nylander has more just by way of being clutch.

So conclude me in the Ditch Mitch Marner thread.

No. They either played in the NHL and scored more goals than Ray Ferraro or have managed a Cup winning team. Otherwise their opinion would be useless.

 

[thewave]

without using a number, how would summarize his performance in the playoffs?


No. They either played in the NHL and scored more goals than Ray Ferraro or have managed a Cup winning team. Otherwise their opinion would be useless.

Basic logic and common sense has told all of us that Dubas overpaid everyone(this means key highly paid players because I know they will mock me). We all knew from the start. The media said plan the parade. They left out that that they meant the parade would be for RD1 success against Tampa.

Marner has a body of work that is really simple to analyze. I mean basically the zombie nation supporters here are saying our ecosystem (total swamp) overpays therefore Mitch deserves more money and success will just come. Essentially ignore the cap. Let the failure happen and make different excuses. Thats shilling

 

[Confucius]

So how many years of playoff failure do we attribute to this "bad luck"?

I attribute it to poor leadership (coaching), I guess we will see this year to be certain.

 

[francis246]

You’re probably right, but wouldn’t it have been even more entertaining if the other 3 captains had done the same thing? Guess the TV producers didn’t think that would help improve the ratings.

The other 3 captains didn’t have 3 teammates. I’m not sure the point you’re making. You think Matthews picked Marner last because he likes him the least? In the post draft interview Matthews and Rielly said they did it to make Marner sweat a little bit. It was a prank, good for TV moment.

 

[francis246]

You know the thread has bottomed out when something as dumb as what you replied to is offered.
Didn’t Kessel go last one year? He must be absolutely loathed league wide.

Yup, might be at the top of the list of just asinine suggestions tbh. Anyone that takes what happens in an allstar draft as an indication of how players feel about each other, probably doesn’t understand how TV works or understand the entertainment business.

 

[Hellcat]

I have concluded that the people defending a 12.5m+ Marner premise have either a relationship or vested interest in his success monitarily.

For those that love reality and for the last time before they make 66 pages of how awesome Mitch the dishes is.

Matthews slight overpay 500k - 1m
Nylander 2-2.5m overpay
Marner @12.5m 3m overpay

Matthews plays better with guys like Domi and Nylander than Marner.

Marner does not like physical playoff series. Can not seem to perform in high stakes

Marner seems to have a fragile ego as evidenced by his glove chucking and crying during game. Contrast guy like Roberts would be hunting numbers and getting his bench going.

So he has no real leadership value. William Nylander has more just by way of being clutch.

So concludes me in the Ditch Mitch Marner thread.

Thank god you are not in an important job like a Doctor ... thinking in a binary approach is not intelligent.