Player Discussion Mitch Marner - On Hiatus

[Trapper]

Did he say why he he got it wrong?

Abbreviated:

He never said he got it wrong. He backtracked saying it was one of 3 possibilities.
1. Talking extension.
2. Trade.
3. Play out the year.

He went on to say don’t you have to do your due diligence and find out what that contract extension would look like? But he ended with I don’t think it’s anywhere near that yet.

So take it for whatever that’s worth.

 

[Ports]

Yea, to say the want marner gone crowd are only in hf is silly. Tsn just put out their poll on whether to extend Marner and 70% said no. Every single podcast/mainstream talk shows are all talking about the same thing and its pretty clear its not just the 1-5 % that reside in the HF forums. The number is much higher.


Do you think the fans had anything to do with running Murphy out of town? If theres enough backlash from the fans there is no way the higher ups don't take notice.

Murphy was terrible as a Leaf. He wasn’t suited to the expectations they had for him. That why he got traded. If he had played well, they wouldn’t have traded him no matter what the fans thought about him.

I'd say you're right in that what the fans think doesn't matter much, at least as long as they keep buying tickets, jerseys etc.

I think you're wrong about the rest though. You say "they are moving him", there's nothing I'm aware of that makes this a certainty. And when I broached the idea of moving Marner after losing to Montreal, most people reacted negatively to that idea so if it was up to the fans, I would have been outvoted. Most people were also on board with moving Kadri and letting Hyman walk. Not everyone 100%, but a strong majority in Kadri's case, and an overwhelming majority in the case of Hyman, at least that's the way I remember it.

I would only add that while I agree that what fans think is almost always a non-factor, in Marner's case it could become a factor at some point depending on how things play out, we'll see.

Those two examples show how little most fans know about playing the game and what’s needed to win.

 

[Ports]

Shanahan’s biggest weakness is he lost the critical eye for his own build and invested too much time, too many assets and too many kicks at the can for a group that doesn’t deserve more opportunities and a waste of time for this fanbase to invest hope in. The Leafs are an entertainment product that is becoming increasingly stale too.

I agree and other teams didn’t value the Leafs core players as highly as Leafs management and any trade discussions for Marner, Nylander or Rielly didn’t give them the return they hoped for.

 

[colchar]

People assume that trading Mitch suddenly makes the Leafs a better team.

No, they think that trading him removes a problem and frees up cap space that can be used to address other glaring needs.

If fans think , we trade Mitch and all of a sudden we are on par with Florida/Boston and other elite teams in the East they are fooling themselves.

Literally nobody is saying that, except you.

 

[ACC1224]

Abbreviated:

He never said he got it wrong. He backtracked saying it was one of 3 possibilities.
1. Talking extension.
2. Trade.
3. Play out the year.

He went on to say don’t you have to do your due diligence and find out what that contract extension would look like? But he ended with I don’t think it’s anywhere near that yet.

So take it for whatever that’s worth.

Sounds like a bunch of nothing

 

[nuck]

Dreger just backtracked.no extension talk in place

I think all he ever said was he didn't believe Tre wasn't interested in discussing an extension. He is a Marner fan and his view will always be from the perspective of wanting MM back. A whole bunch of subsequent reporting from others (not the usual few that feed SN and TSN) referred back to Dregers take as though it was insider news and not just one guys opinion.

The NM is a thing but people get dealt with them. It isn't a promise to the player never to ask them to move, its just more leverage for that player.

 

[rumman]

Abbreviated:

He never said he got it wrong. He backtracked saying it was one of 3 possibilities.
1. Talking extension.
2. Trade.
3. Play out the year.

He went on to say don’t you have to do your due diligence and find out what that contract extension would look like? But he ended with I don’t think it’s anywhere near that yet.

So take it for whatever that’s worth.

Dreger’s a piece of s**t, no morals, no code………

 

[colchar]

I really hate defending Marner, but, the comments against him are just looney.

They really aren't.

I have a clear vision of a shift on game 7, where he gained the zone and was circling in the zone looking for a F to pass to (Domi or Bert at that point) and both were engaging in stupidity, and neither looking to go to open ice, or a passing position. ...then Marner got clobbered and lost the puck.
Now, it looked bad on Marner, but, whose fault was is really??

And I have a clear vision of him going to the boards after a puck and looking over his shoulder to see who was coming at him. When he saw a Bruin behind him he pulled up short of the boards because he was scared of being hit, and didn't come away with a puck he could have had had he not pulled up short.

I really hope we do not resign Bertuzzi!!

Agreed.

 

[Ports]

Not the right thread for this discussion but the overall skill in the league now is far better than Gretzky days, not even close.
Gretzky was no doubt far and away the best player of his generation, same with McDavid.

Same with Orr whose probably the best defenseman to ever play the game in any era. Having said that, comparing eras doesn’t make sense. Player’s size, speed, training methods, coaching, equipment improvements , rule changes make it too difficult to compare.

 

[colchar]

It’s fake.

You hope.

 

[rumman]

Shanahan’s biggest weakness is he lost the critical eye for his own build and invested too much time, too many assets and too many kicks at the can for a group that doesn’t deserve more opportunities and a waste of time for this fanbase to invest hope in. The Leafs are an entertainment product that is becoming increasingly stale too.

Dubas got him hooked on pie charts and fancy graphs, then he thought he was Brad Pitt in Moneyball…………

 

[colchar]

I gave you "real" stats, it is not my fault if you can't read them.

'Expected' is not real, it is fantasy. Reality matters, nothing else. It is not my fault if you cannot grasp reality.

It'd be good if you read entire posts before responding to a single part of it, it makes you look foolish otherwise.

I read the entire post.

Also, xGF% are predictive stats

Predictive. So not based in reality then. Glad you finally figured that out. Maybe now you will start to realize that reality is all that matters.

There should be a section of this site where you can only use points as stats and the simpletons can stay there.

Oh yes, the geeks who spank off over spreadsheets are so much smarter than everyone else. Dubas proved that didn't he?

And I would wager that I am far more educated than you, so you might want to be careful about calling people simpletons.

So violent reaction then, got it.

Oh yes, not being a coddled millenial means one is violent. What an idiotic thing to say.

 

[Trapper]

Sounds like a bunch of nothing

Classic I can’t be wrong reporting.
I give you the only 3 scenarios and dress it up like insider information.

If the Leafs do talk extension with Marner he can stand up and say, there you go.

If they do trade Marner, everyone will be so focused on the return they won’t care what he said.

 

[colchar]

Abbreviated:

He never said he got it wrong. He backtracked saying it was one of 3 possibilities.
1. Talking extension.
2. Trade.
3. Play out the year.

Well that's a hell of an analysis! He gets paid to name the three possible outcomes?

 

[Trapper]

Well that's a hell of an analysis! He gets paid to name the three possible outcomes?

And like suckers, we do it here for free.

 

[colchar]

Dubas got him hooked on pie charts and fancy graphs, then he thought he was Brad Pitt in Moneyball…………

If he thinks he's Brad, can the Leafs start copying Angelina?

 

[Ports]

At least he's a friendly ghost eh?

I'll say it again:

Regular season Marner >>> Regular season Hyman.
Playoff Hyman >>> Playoff Marner.

And Hyman had a much more impactful regular season than Marner did this past season. Everybody says McDavid makes him but guess who goes in the corner and gets the puck to McDavid and Draisaitl.

Playoff Marner >>> Playoff Hyman without McDavid

Unfortunately, we saw how bad that version could be here.

Nonsense. Matthews and Marner couldn’t score either. And they still can’t. Hyman was paid to get them the puck not the other way around.

 

[Ports]

Playoff Marner >>> Playoff Hyman without McDavid

Unfortunately, we saw how bad that version could be here.

Nonsense. Matthews and Marner couldn’t score either. And they still can’t. Hyman was paid to get them the puck not the other way around.

Matthews has been injured for multiple years which drags down Marner's #s both at ES and the PP.

Also, Marner played with an injured Hyman apparently which also drags down his #s.

Marner is actually a great playoff performer but he has played with injured players, I am sure you are aware of this.

Does this work both ways or no?

Check out Marner’s stats in games 5-7 of the playoffs or on the PP. He’s been a ghost when it counts.

 

[DarkKnight]

Only a child can't take criticism of their heroes. Jus' sayin'.

And that's why I've engaged repeatedly with many respected posters here about Marner criticisms and I've done so myself. It's the children like you that aren't worth it. You're lost dude, go enjoy your summer instead of this esoteric circle jerk with the other trash. It's so laughable this crew.

 

[Ports]

I'm asking if the same excuses being used for Hyman can apply to the people who had to play with him... reading comprehension hard?

You mean the Hyman who was paid 20% of what Marner was making at the time. And you blame Hyman for them losing playoff series. Really ?

 

[Notsince67]

Dreger’s a piece of s**t, no morals, no code………

You've described most of hockey insiders

 

[myleafs]

People assume that trading Mitch suddenly makes the Leafs a better team.

1) Tre would have to hit a win in the trade. How many trades did he win in Calgary?
2) The team has to replace Mitch's 90 points through better defence or through like for like offence.
3) JT is no spring chicken his production will start to decline.
4) We need a 1A goalie to compete with perennial Veznia candidates Swayman, Vas, Bob
5) Our Defence is garbage we need to improve our D significantly, dressing Rielly up as a 1 when at best he is a 2 wont work any more.
6) We need some of our prospects to hit and stick and become impact players.
7) We need to improve team speed, we move the puck slow, we skate slow.
8) The bottom of our forward groups are useless anchors, Gregor, Dewar, Holmberg, Reaves, Jarnkrok, Kampft --- what do they do exactly to help this team win?
9) Berube's system in Toronto is yet to be proven effective, some say he was in the right place at the right time, some say he is the next coming of Bowman and is going to bring us to the promised land.

If fans think , we trade Mitch and all of a sudden we are on par with Florida/Boston and other elite teams in the East they are fooling themselves.

It works both ways...some people assume that trading Marner suddenly makes us a worse team. I don't believe that myself. If we spend Marners money wisely I think it makes the team better. If we don't spend it wisely then maybe we are worse. I dont think we miss the playoffs so what is considered worse? We can't do much less in the playoffs with other pieces instead of Marner so for me do it and if it turns out 34 and 88 can't up their game then they can go too...The leafs gave these guys about as good of a try to get it done as you could hope for and they couldn't and can't so....time to move on and try something else.

 

[myleafs]

Go with a proven formula. Run it back, extend him, sign an aged bottom 4 D, and a reclamation goalie and sell some shirts.

Next we will hear that Brodie and Gio are coming back on team friendly deals.....and that Murray is coming back and be reminded how good he was 8 yrs ago....

 

[Ports]

What if the Leafs don't receive any offers they like?

He'll do jack if Tre wants to extend Marner. I'm not even convinced Pelley has the power to fire anyone unless the board tells him to.

Paying a player $100M like Marner wants would definitely require higher approval than Treliving. Pelley would have to approve it or possibly take it to the Board. All this extension talk is just posturing by the Leafs through the media because they’re getting low balled in any trade talks. The bigger issue might be other teams won’t pay Marner what he wants. Neither are a valid reason to re-sign him though and Treliving knows that. Leafs need two top four dman and a goalie and the $12M Marner will want is needed to go towards that bigger need.

 

[HolyCrap]

If he thinks he's Brad, can the Leafs start copying Angelina?

She probably has a bigger pair of nuts than some of our players.