Player Discussion Mitch Marner - On Hiatus

[Nineteen67]

People assume that trading Mitch suddenly makes the Leafs a better team.

1) Tre would have to hit a win in the trade. How many trades did he win in Calgary?
2) The team has to replace Mitch's 90 points through better defence or through like for like offence.
3) JT is no spring chicken his production will start to decline.
4) We need a 1A goalie to compete with perennial Veznia candidates Swayman, Vas, Bob
5) Our Defence is garbage we need to improve our D significantly, dressing Rielly up as a 1 when at best he is a 2 wont work any more.
6) We need some of our prospects to hit and stick and become impact players.
7) We need to improve team speed, we move the puck slow, we skate slow.
8) The bottom of our forward groups are useless anchors, Gregor, Dewar, Holmberg, Reaves, Jarnkrok, Kampft --- what do they do exactly to help this team win?
9) Berube's system in Toronto is yet to be proven effective, some say he was in the right place at the right time, some say he is the next coming of Bowman is going to bring us to the promised land.

If fans think , we trade Mitch and all of a sudden we are on par with Florida/Boston and other elite teams in the East they are fooling themselves.

You could have written this list 6 yrs ago.

 

[Nineteen67]

It isn't hard to fill at all when you jettison the low hanging fruit. Harder to do it when you cut into bone


It specious to suggest they don't want to win and will is meaningless without execution. Judging by the icetime given out, it appears as if Marner did most of what Keefe wanted and more.

What’s the low hanging fruit?

 

[Ports]

having a cannon on the point (that can hit the net) would be a good start in your search for a reason on why the PP results are SO different and until the last game they were shooting blanks too.

Marner has the BEST ppg in the playoffs, so, least effective is quite subjective, obviously we all expect more from him and want to see Memorial Cup Marner, but, playing for Hunter isnt the same as playing for Keefe now is it as they treat players very differently and have much different expectations/standards for their top players.

Iook, I wanted Marner traded before he signed his last contract, and dont care if he's dealt, but, only IF the Leafs get a huge haul for him.
If they cant get a package that would be considered a 'steal' then, i'd rather keep him and see how things go with a coach who has a clue on how to coach in the playoffs.

He’s still 165 lbs. soaking wet and afraid of his own shadow. Berube can’t change that.

 

[Notsince67]

What’s the low hanging fruit?

Filling in the 18.8mm of cap space they currently have

 

[Trapper]

What’s the low hanging fruit?

So many jokes, so little time…

 

[Nineteen67]

Love Sammy McKee's trade proposals yesterday:

Marner + Minten to Nashville for Saros + Fabro + Scissions + 1st
Marner to Utah for Ingram + Keller + Crouse
Marner + Kampf + Timmons + Minten to Vegas for Theodore + Roy + Whitecloud + McNabb
Marner to Calgary for Andersson + Kadri (Bourne counters remove Kadri and give me the $7mM cap space)
Marner to Ottawa for Brady (Bourne says add Minten because he knows Sens never make that deal 1 for 1)

I heard those.
Nashville after the signing bonus is paid but they wouldn’t want to resign him. Saros is about to re-sign anyway.
Vegas doesn’t usually take themselves out of contention in June/July.

 

[rumman]

Imagine if I got a pony!

Simple Jack

 

[Ports]

I woke up this morning to an epiphany (an intuitive grasp of reality through something (such as an event) usually simple and striking.)

Question: What is the difference between Marner playing hardball and not waving his NMC and playing out the year, & then walking away as a UFA after next season?
Answer: Nothing as far as his LEAFS future goes beyond this current contract.

So with that thought enlightenment I have changed course 180 degrees and believe Treliving should extend Marner 100% at his earliest convenience after July 1st, to a term and rate at which Marner would agree and is reasonable. However with one special exception his new contract while on his financial terms comes with the caveat NO protection clauses included (either NTC or NMC). Those are optional and given out by the GM as bargaining chips, and often handed out to players you want to stay with the organization anyways, not ones you want to move on from.

So now I'll repeat the question now with a newly re-signed Marner.

Question: What is the difference between Marner playing hardball and not waving his NMC, playing out the year, & then getting traded away July 1st 2025 once his current deal expires?
Answer: Nothing as far as his LEAFS future goes beyond this current contract.

For Marner the outcome in both cases is identical ... Play out the year and then move on.

However for the Leafs a whole lot, because rather than having a pending walk-away UFA situation leaving the Leafs with nothing but recaputured cap space, now GM BT has essentially pulled off a sign and trade (on a 1 year delayed basis) instead of July 1st 2024 its now 2025 & and Leafs get as much as they can bargain in a succesful and competed trade. If Marner refuses to re-sign in TO without a NTC/NMC then he is right back to Step 1 above.

Now I'll ask the question one last time with the answer to the question included in the questiion itself.

Question: What is the difference between Leafs having traded Marner last year before his NMC kicked in, or him playing hardball and not waving his NMC, playing out the year, & then getting traded away July 1st 2025 once his current deal expires?
Answer: TIME (traded last year, this year or a year from now) is all about timing,

The sooner Marner gets on board the better for everyone.

Marner ain’t signing a contract without a NMC with the Leafs or anyone else. They’re handed out like candy these days and his next contract will be no different. Maybe a limited NTC in the last couple of years of the contract. Besides to get Marner to sign in Toronto they will have to give him Nylander money or more which means they would have to eat some of his cap hit to move him anyway. My guess is they’re not being offered enough right now for him and other teams they’re talking trade with won’t pay him what he wants anyway.

 

[Notsince67]

So many jokes, so little time…

?

 

[rumman]

Love Sammy McKee's trade proposals yesterday:

Marner + Minten to Nashville for Saros + Fabro + Scissions + 1st
Marner to Utah for Ingram + Keller + Crouse
Marner + Kampf + Timmons + Minten to Vegas for Theodore + Roy + Whitecloud + McNabb
Marner to Calgary for Andersson + Kadri (Bourne counters remove Kadri and give me the $7mM cap space)
Marner to Ottawa for Brady (Bourne says add Minten because he knows Sens never make that deal 1 for 1)

Nothing there not to like imo………

 

[57 Years No Cup]

Marner ain’t signing a contract without a NMC with the Leafs or anyone else. They’re handed out like candy these days and his next contract will be no different. Maybe a limited NTC in the last couple of years of the contract. Besides to get Marner to sign in Toronto they will have to give him Nylander money or more which means they would have to eat some of his cap hit to move him anyway. My guess is they’re not being offered enough right now for him and other teams they’re talking trade with won’t pay him what he wants anyway.

The bolded is truth.

 

[Nineteen67]

Filling in the 18.8mm of cap space they currently have

I don’t see a lot of available players that fit their most pressing needs.

 

[Notsince67]

I’m in the trade Marner if they can camp but why would anybody expect him to take a team discount when none of his teammates have ? If they can’t trade him he will find out his market value is lower everywhere else but he’ll also likely pay less in taxes too.

Just because I can't trade your car doesn't mean it's market value is lower. It means that most people require an ownership

I don’t see a lot of available players that fit their most pressing needs.

That goes with the free agent market as well.

 

[Leaf Fans]

Ya actual fans of the team, not just certain players and GM will be disappointed. Some of us really want a winning team and 7 more years of running the same crap over again just won’t get it done

I really want a winning team!

 

[Trapper]

I really want a winning team!

 

[Leaf Fans]

Imagine if I got a pony!

You can get a pony if you want one.

View attachment 885110

I will definitely enjoy the games. The more, the better.

 

[Mess]

Retaining salary for 7-8 years?

Not ideal but Marner already has a butt ugly contract as his current one, and I'm afraid there will be very little interest around the league to give him a raise from current.

We might need 2 teams carrying a portion of his contract just to make it stomachable.

Look at a player like Nikita Kucherov the best winger in the game.

Kucherov has 4 X had over 100 points in a season. Last year he had 100 assists alone .. Marner has never recorded 100 pts yet,

Kucherov lead his team to 2 X Stanley Cups and nearly 3 in a row while leading the playoffs in scoring. Heck Kucherov has scored 53 playoff goals, while Marner has 50 playoff points total after 8 seasons.

Kucherov makes $9.5 mil AAV while Marner already makes $10.9 mil. Marner already has one of the WORST NHL contracts when returning value for cost.

Now name a team GM out there that might be willing to play Marner +$12 mil and also send quality assets Leafs way?

 

[Mess]

Marner ain’t signing a contract without a NMC with the Leafs or anyone else. They’re handed out like candy these days and his next contract will be no different. Maybe a limited NTC in the last couple of years of the contract. Besides to get Marner to sign in Toronto they will have to give him Nylander money or more which means they would have to eat some of his cap hit to move him anyway. My guess is they’re not being offered enough right now for him and other teams they’re talking trade with won’t pay him what he wants anyway.

The key to my post being getting Marner off of his full NMC and into a contract even with a limited NTC (10 team list etc) returns control to the Leafs and makes him tradeable without consent.

If Marner is not signing such a deal perhaps its best he test free agency and see what other teams are offer then.

 

[Notsince67]

Not ideal but Marner already has a butt ugly contract as his current one, and I'm afraid their will be very little interest around the league to give him a raise from current.

We might need 2 teams carrying a portion of his contract just to make it stomachable.

Look at a player like Nikita Kucherov the best winger in the game.

View attachment 885111

Kucherov has 4 X had over 100 points in a season. Last year he had 100 assists alone .. Marner has never recorded 100 pts yet,

Kucherov lead his team to 2 X Stanley Cups and nearly 3 in a row while leading the playoffs in scoring. Heck Kucherov had 53 playoff goals while Marner has 50 playoff points after 8 seasons.

Kucherov makes $9.5 mil AAV while Marner already makes $10.9 mil. Marner already has one of the WORST NHL contracts when returning value for cost.

Now name a team GM out there that might be willing to play Marner +$12 mil and also send quality assets Leafs way?

Who wouldnt pay Kuch a lot more money?

 

[Nineteen67]

Just because I can't trade your car doesn't mean it's market value is lower. It means that most people require an ownership


That goes with the free agent market as well.

How else do they use 18 million in cap space?

 

[Hellcat]

Yeah literally nobody thinks this, keep talking to air.


So we're praising players for simply blocking shots now?

Boy the f***ing standards around here sink everyday.

Really? Have you ever watched Overdrive? Have you ever been on Twitter? Maybe you need to get out more? Unless you've had your head buried in the sand for the last two months, not sure how you can state that with sincerity.

 

[Punch Drunk Loov]

Marner will bet on himself and when he puts up 0G 2 assists in game 4-7 his fans will say he was one of our best players and deserves more money than the Conn Smythe winner

 

[Hellcat]

Who wouldnt pay Kuch a lot more money?

There is talk Reinhart is willing to take between $8.5 to $10 mil to stay in Florida , 57 goal scorer at less than $10 mil and we gotta pay $11.5 to keep Willie here.... The league wants a cap to make parity in the league a thing but has teams who sponge off rich teams to stay afloat or they have such a favourable tax environment players take pay cuts to go there, how is that establishing parity? Cap should be based on take home pay.

 

[Notsince67]

There is talk Reinhart is willing to take between $8.5 to $10 mil to stay in Florida , 57 goal scorer at less than $10 mil and we gotta pay $11.5 to keep Willie here.... The league wants a cap to make parity in the league a thing but has teams who sponge off rich teams to stay afloat or they have such a favourable tax environment players take pay cuts to go there, how is that establishing parity? Cap should be based on take home pay.

Maybe but as an aside...I wouldnt be singing the praises of a Kucherov as a selfless player when his take home would require a 12.5MM salary in Toronto.

 

[Petrus]

I’m pissed.
It’s time for a change


Excellent

If he returns he’s driving the third line and PP2

I am hoping this extension talk we are hearing is designed to create dialogue that will ever eventually lead to a trade. If not, I would be happy even if we let Marner walk to UFA. The worse thing to happen is an extension. At some point real change has to happen.