Player Discussion Mitch Marner - On Hiatus

[Ports]

What metric shows that games 5, 6, and 7 are harder? Something other than your feelings would be appreciated.

How much harder are they than games 1-4? A percentage will be fine.

Why does Kucherov has points in games 5 and 6, but 0 in game 7? Does this mean that game 7 is much harder than games 5 and 6?

Why don't players care during games 1-4? Wouldn't it make sense to play hard during all the game

Watching and playing pro hockey tells me all I need to know about it. Metrics is for people who’ve never done that and don’t even know what they’re watching.

 

[myleafs]

Marner will bet on himself and when he puts up 0G 2 assists in game 4-7 his fans will say he was one of our best players and deserves more money than the Conn Smythe winner

Forget about 2 assist in games 4-7. He had 3 pts in 7 games this year when he was expected to step up, especially with the issues 34 and 88 were having. He had a chance to show what he is made of and he did.....no thanks...byeeee.

 

[mydnyte]

And Hyman had a much more impactful regular season than Marner did this past season. Everybody says McDavid makes him but guess who goes in the corner and gets the puck to McDavid and Draisaitl.


Nonsense. Matthews and Marner couldn’t score either. And they still can’t. Hyman was paid to get them the puck not the other way around.

Hyman blocked multiple shots in the playoffs that Matthews took because he didnt know where it stand in front of the net, or how to get out of the way. ...he blocked an open net shot that would have won us a series too.
Hyman here was meh ...Hyman in Edmonton learned how to play.

Perhaps Keefe was the problem?

 

[myleafs]

Maybe but as an aside...I wouldnt be singing the praises of a Kucherov as a selfless player when his take home would require a 12.5MM salary in Toronto.

Still a deal in comparison to our best guys.

 

[notbias]

Hyman blocked multiple shots in the playoffs that Matthews took because he didnt know where it stand in front of the net, or how to get out of the way. ...he blocked an open net shot that would have won us a series too.
Hyman here was meh ...Hyman in Edmonton learned how to play.

Perhaps Keefe was the problem?

Or McDavid was the solution... They are bouncing pucks off of him now

 

[francis246]

You mean the Hyman who was paid 20% of what Marner was making at the time. And you blame Hyman for them losing playoff series. Really ?

What does Hyman’s cap hit have to do with anything? Hyman was on the top line. The top line against Montreal was abysmal. Hyman doesn’t get a pass because he makes less. You need all parts of your line to do their part

 

[mydnyte]

You say this….whilst not realizing both bertuzzi and domi were better than Marner.

Bertuzzi worked with nylander, Matthews and Tavares, I guess Marner couldn’t feed him. Domi worked with all of them, including Marner on the reg season, but I guess playoffs are a different breed.

If Marner can’t find a pass, find a shooting lane. Nylander spent game 4 and 5 setting up Tavares useless ass and Edmundson, and then he realized those guys f***ing blow, so he did it himself. Marners not that much worse a goal scorer when he actually stops playing RHD

This excuse is lazy and just not true

Bertuzzi was the worst player on the ice in every game and cost us the series, on the GWG and in every early loss with his selfish play of ignoring the game and going after Marchand.
Domi looked pretty good but actually did nothing of substance either, but take a few bad penalties

Marner was by no means 'good' but, those 2 were not better, especially Bertuzzi.
Without Bertuzzi we win the series, he directly cost us 3 games.

 

[Ports]

I would argue the Dubas is far more emotionally driven than analytical.

The JT pitch was a plea to emotion. Return of the hometown boy

He caved on the emotional blackmail from the Marner camp. He was fearful of a repeat of the Nylander contract holdout and said so repeatedly.

His insistence on trying to construct a team in a new way (top heavy and emphasis on skill) was an ego move, sure he used all sorts of rationalizing to justify it.

How many times did he double triple down on the plan by letting good players walk and trading picks to keep that plan alive? Far too many. It's called confirmation bias, it's not an analytical approach.

Hell how many times did we see him losing his shit in the press box. Swearing, visibly and angry getting into arguments with fans. Who does that? Not someone in control of their emotions cooly making decisions at the helm.

Had everyone convinced he was some genius boy wonder instead of the highly emotional decision maker he actually is.

Well that’s because he thought he’d found the cheat code and convinced Shanahan that small, skilled and soft could beat big, tough and physical in the playoffs. That reputation made him look like some boy wonder who had found numbers to construct a new type of team. And he’s overly emotional which makes things even worse.

What does Hyman’s cap hit have to do with anything? Hyman was on the top line. The top line against Montreal was abysmal. Hyman doesn’t get a pass because he makes less. You need all parts of your line to do their part

Because he wasn’t paid to be a scorer. He was paid $2M to be a checker.

 

[myleafs]

I really hate defending Marner, but, the comments against him are just looney.

I have a clear vision of a shift on game 7, where he gained the zone and was circling in the zone looking for a F to pass to (Domi or Bert at that point) and both were engaging in stupidity, and neither looking to go to open ice, or a passing position. ...then Marner got clobbered and lost the puck.
Now, it looked bad on Marner, but, whose fault was is really??

Marner is a playmaker/passer, not a goal scorer, so, when he has nobody open to pass to, he's kinda screwed.

He really needs to work on his shot more(though its better than it was before), and use it more, as he doesnt even come close to using it enough to become a shooting threat.

then there is the idiot Keefe who puts Marner and Domi together, a 85% pass first guy (Marner) and a 95% pass first guy (Domi) with Bert who just SUCKED and never got open and couldnt receive a pass even if he was open!!!

I really hope we do not resign Bertuzzi!

Bedard shot 100's of weighted pucks with one hand when he broke the other and he says it helped his overall shot a lot. Does Marner work on his shot? Sure doesn't look like it. We see the same thing over and over with him. Evolve or die as they say. He seems to be content with what he is and not really looking to improve. He got his, why do anything more than you have to seems to be his M.O. Blaming Bert and Domi who outpointed/out preformed him in the playoffs for a fraction of the cost...priceless.

I think I'm addicted and could never be done with the team. I know how you feel though and my enthusiasm for watching has been going down last couple of years. I think there will many night where the game will be on, but I'm not paying much attention.



Interesting comment. Does that mean you're going to cry if you don't get your way and Marner's playing for another team? Or are you the type that's more likely to react violently when you don't get your way?



I think you're misunderstanding what people think - I doubt anyone assumes that trading Mitch makes us a better team. What people think is that considering how badly Marner plays after the first couple of playoff games, spending a ton of cap space on him is not the path to playoff success so it makes sense to try something else. It's an uphill battle no matter what for reasons you've stated so it's hard to see us winning a cup before the next rebuild no matter what. But however slim the chances are, committing to Marner for another lengthy term seems like it guarantees we'll fail.

I think we would see shambles to the brain on a whole other level.

 

[notbias]

Well that’s because he thought he’d found the cheat code and convinced Shanahan that small, skilled and soft could beat big, tough and physical in the playoffs. That reputation made him look like some boy wonder who had found numbers to construct a new type of team. And he’s overly emotional which makes things even worse.

How did we acquire the most "playoff-type" players and have our worst season yet?

Did any big, tough, and physical playoff types help us?

The best acquisition was Lub, and it looked like he forgot how to check, he played a quiet game and focused on anything but hitting.

Domi was second best and he is a skilled player who sucker punches guys (I like Domi and want him back).

Because he wasn’t paid to be a scorer. He was paid $2M to be a checker.

You misspelled "choker".

That line was great at driving play but sucked at finishing, and Hyman was one of the worst of the bunch (if not the worst).

 

[francis246]

Well that’s because he thought he’d found the cheat code and convinced Shanahan that small, skilled and soft could beat big, tough and physical in the playoffs. That reputation made him look like some boy wonder who had found numbers to construct a new type of team. And he’s overly emotional which makes things even worse.


Because he wasn’t paid to be a scorer. He was paid $2M to be a checker.

Lol you and I both know that’s horse shit. It’s wild the lengths some of you go to defend Hyman now. If you’re on the top line, you’re there to provide offense and forecheck. You can’t be selective in the criticism.

 

[Ports]

Hyman blocked multiple shots in the playoffs that Matthews took because he didnt know where it stand in front of the net, or how to get out of the way. ...he blocked an open net shot that would have won us a series too.
Hyman here was meh ...Hyman in Edmonton learned how to play.

Perhaps Keefe was the problem?

Or players improve over time. If they’re smart they watch other players, learn what works for them and develop more skills. I could see that coming with Hyman who essentially became a thirty goal scorer who was elite in the corners. Where he’s really improved in Edmonton is around the net front.

 

[myleafs]

Dreger just backtracked.no extension talk in place

So marners team told Dreger to spill extension talks to the public to guage the reaction and he pulled it back?....lol

This Seravelli guy knows as much as we do.

Wouldn't surprise me if he just comes to this site for his next article. I've become convinced this site is mined by the media and journalists for feeds. I can't even count the number of times I've read articles that looked like they just reworded a page from one of these threads.

If it looks familiar there's probably a good reason why.

It is a treasure trove of ideas and opinions in here. No doubt some of them are lurking, looking for new angles and such for their podcasts etc.

 

[Ports]

How did we acquire the most "playoff-type" players and have our worst season yet?

Did any big, tough, and physical playoff types help us?

The best acquisition was Lub, and it looked like he forgot how to check, he played a quiet game and focused on anything but hitting.

Domi was second best and he is a skilled player who sucker punches guys (I like Domi and want him back).



You misspelled "choker".

That line was great at driving play but sucked at finishing, and Hyman was one of the worst of the bunch (if not the worst).

How did we acquire the most "playoff-type" players and have our worst season yet?

Did any big, tough, and physical playoff types help us?

The best acquisition was Lub, and it looked like he forgot how to check, he played a quiet game and focused on anything but hitting.

Domi was second best and he is a skilled player who sucker punches guys (I like Domi and want him back).



You misspelled "choker".

That line was great at driving play but sucked at finishing, and Hyman was one of the worst of the bunch (if not the worst).

Hyman scored one goal the same as Matthews and one more than Marner in that series. Yeah getting paid 80% less and scoring more goals than the $11M dud does matter.

 

[nuck]

That's true. I don't expect him to take a team discount, I hope they offer him a deal, he declines, and that gets floated to the market. It adds to the pressure for him to waive for a team that will extend him this summer. I think Utah, Seattle, Chicago all might go 8 x 12 for him. I hope so anyway.

I don't think they can make a reasonable offer. His pp82 in the last 5 years is like 100 with 30ish goals. Yes he was no hell in the playoffs but there really isn't an argument for paying Willie more based on 55 good games in his contract year. But they did, and even though external comps matter, they are both right wingers and Mitch has 100 more points in fewer games. I don't think he accepts Willie's deal so what do they offer him? I think they obviously listen to him but his resigning sailed with the Nylander deal IMO. For all we know its academic because Ferris may be pushing for some kind of Matthews type windfall so why even open the door?

In terms overpayment, almost any club can do it for 1 guy, just not 3 (again). He can get more than the Leafs can afford to offer him, and maybe even in a market with a better tax situation. The money should work itself out but there will be no massive return of assets. With two years left on a little lower AAV and without the NM they could expect a lot more but that was never going to happen. Too bad Kyle has no assets to spare.

 

[francis246]

Well you convinced me. Can’t believe I overlooked that one time where he almost made a play but didn’t. Marner is a great game 7 player and it’s Domi and Bertuzzi’s fault he’s sucked over the past 10 years.

Sign this guy ASAP.

10 years?! I don’t remember Marner being on the 2014/15 Toronto Maple Leafs!?

Hyman scored one goal the same as Matthews and one more than Marner in that series. Yeah getting paid 80% less and scoring more goals than the $11M dud does matter.

I’m pretty sure Hyman scored an empty net, but go off king! EDIT* went back and found the goal, tap in goal from Marner after Marner undressed Carey Price, almost turned over regained possession and got it in front for Hyman, what a sequence LOL

 

[Ports]

Who wouldnt pay Kuch a lot more money?

Dubas ?

 

[ToneDog]

Well that’s because he thought he’d found the cheat code and convinced Shanahan that small, skilled and soft could beat big, tough and physical in the playoffs. That reputation made him look like some boy wonder who had found numbers to construct a new type of team. And he’s overly emotional which makes things even worse.


Because he wasn’t paid to be a scorer. He was paid $2M to be a checker.

Hyman was coming back early from a knee injury he sustained late in the year from a cheap shot from Edler who was suspended for the hit. Against the Bruins two years earlier he was playing with a torn ligament in his knee.

Yeah let's blame the $2m checker while the $11 super elite forward is flipping pucks over the glass from the middle of the ice because he felt pressure from behind and put us 2 men down and turning over pucks in game #7 leading the the opening goal for the Habs which all but sealed their fate because they were never scoring a goal on Price unless the game was all but over.

 

[mydnyte]

Or players improve over time. If they’re smart they watch other players, learn what works for them and develop more skills. I could see that coming with Hyman who essentially became a thirty goal scorer who was elite in the corners. Where he’s really improved in Edmonton is around the net front.

Yes, developed in Edmonton ...while he was here, he wasnt as good as today, and he wasnt improving here either.
The best thing he did for his career is leave, as if he stayed here with Keefe, he'd possibly still be a 20 goal guy.

 

[myleafs]

I thought Mitch was everything wrong with this team? Freeing up cap space well that automatically means that Tre will make all the right moves with the 11 mil right?

If you think NOBODY is saying trading Mitch will fix this team, clearly you have not been paying attention, to twitter, TSN, SNET ... head in the sand is a good look ..., keep it there. Ignoring the 9 other point's to make a point... priceless.

Nobody is saying that ...ok maybe a few. Its a start to fixing this team, not the end of fixing it and most in here understand that whether you want to acknowledge that or not. And you know there is a chance it might not help at all but Im good with trying something somewhat drastic rather than the same old same old. Its a stale product. Something has to give.

 

[Ports]

Yes, developed in Edmonton ...while he was here, he wasnt as good as today, and he wasnt improving here either.
The best thing he did for his career is leave, as if he stayed here with Keefe, he'd possibly still be a 20 goal guy.

That’s just speculation. Nobody knows how he would have developed as a Leaf. They let him walk because they couldn’t pay him what he was worth or were worried about giving him no trade protection given his injury history. It’s worked out better for him and the Oilers than the Leafs that’s for sure.

 

[mydnyte]

Hyman was coming back early from a knee injury he sustained late in the year from a cheap shot from Edler who was suspended for the hit. Against the Bruins two years earlier he was playing with a torn ligament in his knee.

Yeah let's blame the $2m checker while the $11 super elite forward is flipping pucks over the glass from the middle of the ice because he felt pressure from behind and put us 2 men down and turning over pucks in game #7 leading the the opening goal for the Habs which all but sealed their fate because they were never scoring a goal on Price unless the game was all but over.

I'll blame the $2m checker when he blocks our shots in front of an empty net and costs us the series, or when he hangs onto the puck and tried to make plays for himself rather than feed a wide open Matthews who was calling for the puck over and over. shift after shift.
Hyman was a very selfish player as a leaf, some of his 'passes' were when the puck rolled off his stick, else he seldom did.

Matthews is a give an go player on zone entries, but, he'd pass to Hyman, and Hyman would just GO, and never pass back to Matthews.

Hyman on the Leafs top line was just 'bad' except, for a short time when he got moved to the 3rd line and he looked great, and even drove the line, but, Keefe kept putting him back on the top line with players he just didnt fit with.

 

[myleafs]

Lol you and I both know that’s horse shit. It’s wild the lengths some of you go to defend Hyman now. If you’re on the top line, you’re there to provide offense and forecheck. You can’t be selective in the criticism.

Your expectations are the same for 2milly Hyman and 11 milly Marner?

 

[Ports]

-they kind of are, with the misevaluation of his actual worth. much of the despise started because of the OT goal, and misperception that it was his man, except it wasn't, it was Bertuzzi's (who went for a line change on the GWG), then Rielly's after that. The lack of production is true, but, if he doesnt have anyone that can score to pass to (Matthews/Tavares/Nylander) he's not going to get many points.

-every player with a brain in his head checks behind for who is coming at them, and majority will pull up short, but, they should still try to win the puck. ...that part is not negotiable. Watch tonight's game and you will see it plenty of times where they look then stop short to not get

Hyman was coming back early from a knee injury he sustained late in the year from a cheap shot from Edler who was suspended for the hit. Against the Bruins two years earlier he was playing with a torn ligament in his knee.

Yeah let's blame the $2m checker while the $11 super elite forward is flipping pucks over the glass from the middle of the ice because he felt pressure from behind and put us 2 men down and turning over pucks in game #7 leading the the opening goal for the Habs which all but sealed their fate because they were never scoring a goal on Price unless the game was all but over.

Yeah there’s some strange blame game when it comes to Hyman.

 

[hullsy47]

Did he say why he he got it wrong?

He said all marner talk is premature .basucal

Dreger’s a piece of s**t, no morals, no code………

He backtracked.but to make it a so called "bombshell news "
Was ludicrous and he didn't do his
homework
Now let's see which talking g head comes out with a ferris number