Player Discussion Mitch Marner - On Hiatus

[myleafs]

I agree wholeheartedly. It can start with $11M start players not intentionally avoiding in contact/puck battles in the playoffs.

According to some, this is not a prerequisite and not required or expected of Marner. I mean you cant expect the prince to soil his hands and maybe get a booboo thus lowering his godlike status to that of a peasant.....blasphemy.

 

[notbias]

You mean the Hyman who was paid 20% of what Marner was making at the time. And you blame Hyman for them losing playoff series. Really ?

People are pulling out excuses for other players, no one is mentioning cap... why do people get so defensive when I ask if the same excuses apply for all players or just for the ones they cheer for?

Nonsense. Matthews and Marner couldn’t score either. And they still can’t. Hyman was paid to get them the puck not the other way around.

He didn't do a good job in that because pretty sure Matthews/Marner had more takeaways.

Check out Marner’s stats in games 5-7 of the playoffs or on the PP. He’s been a ghost when it counts.

Ah yes, the argument of "only games after game 4 count"... when you have to isolate stats, there is an issue.

 

[Aashir Mallik]

I really hate defending Marner, but, the comments against him are just looney.

I have a clear vision of a shift on game 7, where he gained the zone and was circling in the zone looking for a F to pass to (Domi or Bert at that point) and both were engaging in stupidity, and neither looking to go to open ice, or a passing position. ...then Marner got clobbered and lost the puck.
Now, it looked bad on Marner, but, whose fault was is really??

Marner is a playmaker/passer, not a goal scorer, so, when he has nobody open to pass to, he's kinda screwed.

He really needs to work on his shot more(though its better than it was before), and use it more, as he doesnt even come close to using it enough to become a shooting threat.

then there is the idiot Keefe who puts Marner and Domi together, a 85% pass first guy (Marner) and a 95% pass first guy (Domi) with Bert who just SUCKED and never got open and couldnt receive a pass even if he was open!!!

I really hope we do not resign Bertuzzi!!

You say this….whilst not realizing both bertuzzi and domi were better than Marner.

Bertuzzi worked with nylander, Matthews and Tavares, I guess Marner couldn’t feed him. Domi worked with all of them, including Marner on the reg season, but I guess playoffs are a different breed.

If Marner can’t find a pass, find a shooting lane. Nylander spent game 4 and 5 setting up Tavares useless ass and Edmundson, and then he realized those guys f***ing blow, so he did it himself. Marners not that much worse a goal scorer when he actually stops playing RHD

This excuse is lazy and just not true

 

[Ports]

People are pulling out excuses for other players, no one is mentioning cap... why do people get so defensive when I ask if the same excuses apply for all players or just for the ones they cheer for?



He didn't do a good job in that because pretty sure Matthews/Marner had more takeaways.



Ah yes, the argument of "only games after game 4 count"... when you have to isolate stats, there is an issue.

Nothing to see here.

 

[notbias]

'Expected' is not real, it is fantasy. Reality matters, nothing else. It is not my fault if you cannot grasp reality.

I gave you goals, not expected as well, he sucked there too. He hurt his team when he was on the ice.

I read the entire post.

Comprehending the post is the 2nd part after reading it, I don't think you did that.

Predictive. So not based in reality then. Glad you finally figured that out. Maybe now you will start to realize that reality is all that matters.

They are predictive based on real stats that indicate play driving and scoring chances, he sucks at those.

Next year, do you think his real stats where he shot 40% will dictate how well he will do (still hurt his team), or the stats where it showed he was spending most of the time getting hemmed in and shots against?

Oh yes, the geeks who spank off over spreadsheets are so much smarter than everyone else. Dubas proved that didn't he?

And I would wager that I am far more educated than you, so you might want to be careful about calling people simpletons.

All the teams that have won recently have been heavily invested in analytics, maybe our team should be full of more geeks.

This is a myth that Dubas was more analytically driven than other GMs.

Congrats on potentially being far more educated, education is not an indication of intelligence, your post is a good example.

 

[TorMapleJays]

McDavid in the last two games has 8 pts for context.

 

[Hellcat]

No, they think that trading him removes a problem and frees up cap space that can be used to address other glaring needs.




Literally nobody is saying that, except you.

I thought Mitch was everything that was wrong with this team? Freeing up cap space well that automatically means that Tre will make all the right moves with the 11 mil right?

If you think NOBODY is saying trading Mitch will fix this team, clearly you have not been paying attention, to twitter, TSN, SNET ... head in the sand is a good look ..., keep it there. Ignoring the 9 other point's to make a point... priceless.

 

[notbias]

View attachment 885224

Can you post the graphic for games 1-4?

You have to win at least one of those games to reach 5, 6, and 7.

I see some people are selectively picking games 5, 6, and 7 because they dislike specific players, but shockingly, it doesn't matter which games you win, you only need to win 4 games.

 

[Ports]

So here’s a question… what happened to the Marner that blocked those 2 or 4 shots at the end of the playoff game on his ELC deal to the guy that was a step away from the puck and skated away from it against McAvoy this year.

If the dollars made that significant of a change and his head ballooned to the point where he can’t fit the ego in the door then a change of scenery is needed for the sake of the dressing room.

Mitch has created this divide or image with the way he’s acted and not being a mature adult.

He’s taken a lot of pounding in the playoffs since then. Other teams run him and push him around. Now he hears footsteps and won’t go near the net. I could see this coming five years ago when Chara and the Bruins were targeting him. He’s 165 lbs. soaking wet and can’t handle physical, playoff hockey.

 

[TorMapleJays]

Can you post the graphic for games 1-4?

You have to win at least one of those games to reach 5, 6, and 7.

I see some people are selectively picking games 5, 6, and 7 because they dislike specific players, but shockingly, it doesn't matter which games you win, you only need to win 4 games.

I don’t because I stole it from twitter but if you take total points and subtract from this photo it should give you an accurate number.

 

[Ports]

Matthews is a bigger question mark than Marner, imo.

In what way ?

 

[TorMapleJays]

In what way ?

Well… he should be producing like McDavid.. it would be nice to have some more offensive production and if just one of them elevated their game to a …. What’s his face who eliminated us with a two goal game … Logan Paul or something… he’s done nothing since.

I remember lots of people wanted to sign him to a contract after that one game….

No.

 

[myleafs]

It isn't hard to fill at all when you jettison the low hanging fruit. Harder to do it when you cut into bone


It specious to suggest they don't want to win and will is meaningless without execution. Judging by the icetime given out, it appears as if Marner did most of what Keefe wanted and more.

Hasn't that been the formula since the core 4 were signed? Everything around them changed multiple times including 2 coaches.

I do agree that it was up to Keefe to do something about what was happening and if Marner was too scared of his shadow he should have sat him for a player that wasn't. Now in saying that you would think top 10 salaried players would have their own expectations on how they play and what effort/sacrifice they need to make....At least the non paper tiger stars do anyway.

 

[Ports]

Can you post the graphic for games 1-4?

You have to win at least one of those games to reach 5, 6, and 7.

I see some people are selectively picking games 5, 6, and 7 because they dislike specific players, but shockingly, it doesn't matter which games you win, you only need to win 4 games.

Because in games 5,6 and 7 the games get harder to play. Other teams have time to game plan and shut down their opponents star players and expose their weaknesses. In Marner’s case, he’s small, weak and scared to get hit so they cover his outlet passes and let him shoot his muffin from 40 feet out or make high risk passes that get picked off and turned into scoring chances the other way.

 

[myleafs]

?
View attachment 885106

I was sure my wife had them in her purse but good to know they are still intact.

 

[ToneDog]

Can you post the graphic for games 1-4?

You have to win at least one of those games to reach 5, 6, and 7.

I see some people are selectively picking games 5, 6, and 7 because they dislike specific players, but shockingly, it doesn't matter which games you win, you only need to win 4 games.

1 for 9 in first to 4 wins series. Is that good ? The bottom line is this core sucks in the playoffs and enough is enough. Change is needed. Fans have been calling for change since they choked against the lowly Habs who sold at the deadline that year.

 

[notbias]

Because in games 5,6 and 7 the games get harder to play. Other teams have time to game plan and shut down their opponents star players and expose their weaknesses. In Marner’s case, he’s small, weak and scared to get hit so they cover his outlet passes and let him shoot his muffin from 40 feet out or make high risk passes that get picked off and turned into scoring chances the other way.

What metric shows that games 5, 6, and 7 are harder? Something other than your feelings would be appreciated.

How much harder are they than games 1-4? A percentage will be fine.

Why does Kucherov has points in games 5 and 6, but 0 in game 7? Does this mean that game 7 is much harder than games 5 and 6?

Why don't players care during games 1-4? Wouldn't it make sense to play hard during all the games?

 

[myleafs]

Marner ain’t signing a contract without a NMC with the Leafs or anyone else. They’re handed out like candy these days and his next contract will be no different. Maybe a limited NTC in the last couple of years of the contract. Besides to get Marner to sign in Toronto they will have to give him Nylander money or more which means they would have to eat some of his cap hit to move him anyway. My guess is they’re not being offered enough right now for him and other teams they’re talking trade with won’t pay him what he wants anyway.

Thats the thing....we dont want him and don't think we can win with him but we want to get a large haul for him, otherwise we will just re-sign him. Madness.

 

[conFABulator]

I’m in the trade Marner if they can camp but why would anybody expect him to take a team discount when none of his teammates have ? If they can’t trade him he will find out his market value is lower everywhere else but he’ll also likely pay less in taxes too.

That's true. I don't expect him to take a team discount, I hope they offer him a deal, he declines, and that gets floated to the market. It adds to the pressure for him to waive for a team that will extend him this summer. I think Utah, Seattle, Chicago all might go 8 x 12 for him. I hope so anyway.

 

[notbias]

1 for 9. Is that good ? The bottom line is this core sucks in the playoffs and enough is enough. Change is needed. Fans have been calling for change since they choked against the lowly Habs who sold at the deadline that year.

No one is defending the core, I am just seeing dumb arguments.

The supporting cast has sucked every year too, it isn't just the core.

Last year, all the great acquisitions who are built for the playoffs were duds as well.

 

[Ports]

Well… he should be producing like McDavid.. it would be nice to have some more offensive production and if just one of them elevated their game to a …. What’s his face who eliminated us with a two goal game … Logan Paul or something… he’s done nothing since.

I remember lots of people wanted to sign him to a contract after that one game….

No.

There’s nobody close to how dominant Connor McDavid is in recent memory. Matthews is a great player but not in McDavid’s orbit. Matthews needs to produce more than he has in the playoffs but I’ll take his size and shot over Marner’s any day of the week. Matthews was voted on as one of the three finalists for the Ted Lindsay award again by the players. That says a lot by how he’s viewed by his opponents. Now he needs to step up his physical game to make himself more effective in the playoffs.

That's true. I don't expect him to take a team discount, I hope they offer him a deal, he declines, and that gets floated to the market. It adds to the pressure for him to waive for a team that will extend him this summer. I think Utah, Seattle, Chicago all might go 8 x 12 for him. I hope so anyway.

That would be great. I hope so too.

Thats the thing....we dont want him and don't think we can win with him but we want to get a large haul for him, otherwise we will just re-sign him. Madness.

They’re in a tough spot but whether they can trade him or not his expected $12M is better used elsewhere and that’s the worst case scenario if they let him walk.

 

[myleafs]

I really want a winning team!

I want that too but what I really want is a team I can feel good about cheering for. If everything is left out on the ice and its obvious to all that is what happened, I can live with the losses. Don't get me wrong, I want to win, but I want to see a team I can be proud of win or lose.

 

[mydnyte]

They really aren't.




And I have a clear vision of him going to the boards after a puck and looking over his shoulder to see who was coming at him. When he saw a Bruin behind him he pulled up short of the boards because he was scared of being hit, and didn't come away with a puck he could have had had he not pulled up short.





Agreed.

-they kind of are, with the misevaluation of his actual worth. much of the despise started because of the OT goal, and misperception that it was his man, except it wasn't, it was Bertuzzi's (who went for a line change on the GWG), then Rielly's after that. The lack of production is true, but, if he doesnt have anyone that can score to pass to (Matthews/Tavares/Nylander) he's not going to get many points.

-every player with a brain in his head checks behind for who is coming at them, and majority will pull up short, but, they should still try to win the puck. ...that part is not negotiable. Watch tonight's game and you will see it plenty of times where they look then stop short to not get scrunched.

 

[Kazparov]

.

This is a myth that Dubas was more analytically driven than other GMs.
.

I would argue the Dubas is far more emotionally driven than analytical.

The JT pitch was a plea to emotion. Return of the hometown boy

He caved on the emotional blackmail from the Marner camp. He was fearful of a repeat of the Nylander contract holdout and said so repeatedly.

His insistence on trying to construct a team in a new way (top heavy and emphasis on skill) was an ego move, sure he used all sorts of rationalizing to justify it.

How many times did he double triple down on the plan by letting good players walk and trading picks to keep that plan alive? Far too many. It's called confirmation bias, it's not an analytical approach.

Hell how many times did we see him losing his shit in the press box. Swearing, visibly and angry getting into arguments with fans. Who does that? Not someone in control of their emotions cooly making decisions at the helm.

Had everyone convinced he was some genius boy wonder instead of the highly emotional decision maker he actually is.

 

[rumman]

If he thinks he's Brad, can the Leafs start copying Angelina?

She ain’t pretty she just looks that way……..