Player Discussion Mitch Marner - On Hiatus

[Menzinger]

Doubt any owner wants to pay that fat $7+m bonus due on July 1st.

7 mil isn't that big of a bonus in the grand scheme of things. Probably only a few of the absolute cheapest teams wouldn't want to pay that, and Marner likely wouldn't wave to go to those to begin with

 

[TMLBlueandWhite]

They need to get the trade in place first.

This way if he doesn't agree to waive they can sit him. They shouldn't be too fussy with the return either. If all they can get is a package of futures that's great.

Take all those goodies you expect to get back in a Marner trade, anything your heart desires, and add it to whatever the Leafs already have and they can go bananas trading for the best they can get for the positions of most need.

Nothing against Marner. This isn't personal. The fact he's a greedy coward hiding behind his security while taking shots at his teammates has nothing to do with the fact fans don't want him here.

It has everything to do with his performance in the playoffs.

Most players get traded at least once in their career. Marner can take comfort in knowing he's seen other star players leave this team and have success elsewhere. And if he insists on trying to remain a member of the team, knowing there is a trade in place, then it shouldn't be a surprise when the Leafs play hardball back and don't dress him.

They don't want him to get hurt before they can unload him on the sucker dumb enough to trade premium assets for him.

 

[ToneDog]

7 mil isn't that big of a bonus in the grand scheme of things. Probably only a few of the absolute cheapest teams wouldn't want to pay that, and Marner likely wouldn't wave to go to those to begin with

If they pay it, it will reduce the return. As it stands, it is likely difficult to find a trade partner that:

1. Has assets to satisfy the Leafs in a trade
2. Is winning to extend Marner
3. Can fit in the cap hit
4. Marner agrees to waive to said team

Add playing $7m and it will reduce the field further IMO.

 

[Kurtz]

They need to get the trade in place first.

This way if he doesn't agree to waive they can sit him. They shouldn't be too fussy with the return either. If all they can get is a package of futures that's great.

Take all those goodies you expect to get back in a Marner trade, anything your heart desires, and add it to whatever the Leafs already have and they can go bananas trading for the best they can get for the positions of most need.

Nothing against Marner. This isn't personal. The fact he's a greedy coward hiding behind his security while taking shots at his teammates has nothing to do with the fact fans don't want him here.

It has everything to do with his performance in the playoffs.

Most players get traded at least once in their career. Marner can take comfort in knowing he's seen other star players leave this team and have success elsewhere. And if he insists on trying to remain a member of the team, knowing there is a trade in place, then it shouldn't be a surprise when the Leafs play hardball back and don't dress him.

They don't want him to get hurt before they can unload him on the sucker dumb enough to trade premium assets for him.

Obviously, they're not going to sit him.

But if Domi's back, there are valid hockey reasons to take Mitch off PP1 and play him on the 3rd line.

Let's see if his scumbag agent is still eager to take him to UFA after a year of that deployment.

 

[Gary Nylund]

Rate? Relative to what? Why are you only including Florida last year and not adding the whole playoffs that include Tampa? It kind of tips your hand. You are looking for subjective commentary that includes feelings and opinions but clearly want to avoid objective discussion by forgetting stats "for a moment". From that perspective, why rate against anything at all? Its just and eristic exercise that doesnt care to sacrifice the truth.

You ask relative to what - compare to whatever and whoever you think is appropriate.

I'm asking about those two playoff series because in my opinion, he played poorly in both of them and I was curious to see if you were in agreement. I'm just asking for your opinion that's all, what's the big deal?

Objective discussion is always my goal. Why do you think offering an opinion means sacrificing the truth? You seem to be a huge fan of the way Marner plays and often justify your POV with stats. I think stats never tell the whole story, I believe that in Marner's case that's absolutely the case which is why I'm just asking you to give an honest opinion without hiding behind stats. Like I said you watch the games, surely you don't need to look at a spreadsheet to form an opinion.

If you don't want to give us your honest opinion then that's fine. Just understand that to use your own words, that "kind of tips your hand".

 

[ULF_55]

7 mil isn't that big of a bonus in the grand scheme of things. Probably only a few of the absolute cheapest teams wouldn't want to pay that, and Marner likely wouldn't wave to go to those to begin with

Total is $8,025,000.

So paying $8mm for the year, not $11mm.
Leafs paid more upfront, so whether signing bonus or paid over the next 9 months, same amount.

I think the Signing bonus is a red herring.

 

[hullsy47]

If they pay it, it will reduce the return. As it stands, it is likely difficult to find a trade partner that:

1. Has assets to satisfy the Leafs in a trade
2. Is winning to extend Marner
3. Can fit in the cap hit
4. Marner agrees to waive to said team

Add playing $7m and it will reduce the field further IMO.

Nobody paying marner more than willy ot pasta
The way ferris thinks he ll want draisatl money
Its reality .mitch should take a extension of his current deal or waive his no moce

 

[ToneDog]

Nobody paying marner more than willy ot pasta
The way ferris thinks he ll want draisatl money
Its reality .mitch should take a extension of his current deal or waive his no moce

I'm not sure I want to remain in cap hell for another season but if Mitch took the same money, it could buy his some goodwill from the fan base. Then again, running it back is insanity.

 

[Nineteen67]

Rate? Relative to what? Why are you only including Florida last year and not adding the whole playoffs that include Tampa? It kind of tips your hand. You are looking for subjective commentary that includes feelings and opinions but clearly want to avoid objective discussion by forgetting stats "for a moment". From that perspective, why rate against anything at all? Its just and eristic exercise that doesnt care to sacrifice the truth.

I predicted the Leafs would beat TB in 6 because I felt Marner was going to be the best player in the series. He was far from it and they only won because of some shoddy goaltending. Somehow he was even worse against Florida.

This playoff he had one last a chance at redemption and once again he was a no show. We don’t know if he was disinterested or is just a not a good enough player, but neither is acceptable.

 

[mikeyz]

Marner fans logic:

Collecting a large amount of points during the garbage time in game 1 to 4 means he is a playoff warrior.

A complete MIA during game 5 to 7? Nah these games don't matter, it's a team issue, coaching issue.

Imagine actually believing that games 5-7 in a playoff series mean less then games 1-4? Lol.

Rate? Relative to what? Why are you only including Florida last year and not adding the whole playoffs that include Tampa? It kind of tips your hand. You are looking for subjective commentary that includes feelings and opinions but clearly want to avoid objective discussion by forgetting stats "for a moment". From that perspective, why rate against anything at all? Its just and eristic exercise that doesnt care to sacrifice the truth.

You backpedal any faster, you’re going to moon walk right through the wall behind you.

Way to avoid answering his question BTW.

 

[MSZ]

I predicted the Leafs would beat TB in 6 because I felt Marner was going to be the best player in the series. He was far from it and they only won because of some shoddy goaltending. Somehow he was even worse against Florida.

This playoff he had one last a chance at redemption and once again he was a no show. We don’t know if he was disinterested or is just a not a good enough player, but neither is acceptable.

He has zero muscles, if I was him I wouldn't have wanted to go into the traffic in a playoff game too.

 

[Notsince67]

Imagine actually believing that games 5-7 in a playoff series mean less then games 1-4? Lol.


You backpedal any faster, you’re going to moon walk right through the wall behind you.

Way to avoid answering his question BTW.

If a question is asked properly with accepted presuppositions and context, I have no problem answering a question. Questions that are leading are disingenuous. The team lost. It wasnt good enough. Everyone needs to take responsibility for it. I want the team to be better. This includes Marner. There is little to separate the output of Marner vs the rest of the team other than the.fact he is deployed in every situation.

 

[HamiltonNHL]

He has zero muscles

Our PP will be our enforcer

 

[TimeZone]

I don't accept the presupposition that he doesn't have a shot nor cant play is a physical series. Compared to what?
I am 99.9% sure that he could do both of those things to a far greater extent than yourself. Who or what are you comparing him to and why?

Likely peers around the league making a similar salary, not necessarily fans on a message board who are not paid to play professional hockey.

Really lowering the bar here

 

[PromisedLand]

So JT has a better ppg than the 2nd best player in the world when it really matters? Interesting.

Marner was dragging him down

 

[rocketman588]

Marner putting on a clinic of how to best piss off your fan base through the media.

Goat in that regard. Thanks for the two years of NMCs Dubas

If we can off load him for Soros that's a massive win. Just get him off the team and at least some sort of a viable piece

 

[PromisedLand]

They all share blame, but the biggest culprit is Matthews. He’s supposed to be a franchise level superstar and he has yet to lead the team to any success. As far playoffs go, he's most known for smirking while getting rag- dolled.

I don't disagree with you that we need more out of Matthews but quite frankly he does show up in games 5 to 7

IMHO if he wasn't saddled with the dead weight that is Marner I think Matthews would have done more. He does play heavy, wins board battles, lays body; but when he makes the play Marner is just figure skating and turnsover the puck all the time in the o-zone.

If Matthews is always supposed to be a shooter it is easier to defend him; but when Matthews makes the play nobody on his line would take the shot and Marner would ruin any offensive momentum in the o-zone.

I'd like to see Matthews without Marner for extended period of time. He was pretty good in Gm 2 this season; then he got sick which sucks. And he is the one that set up the goal in Gm7 for Willy; and wasn't on ice for goal against even though he wasn't 100%.

I do agree that given Matthews' AAV, his output must be more and he must make his linemates better. But for that we must see Matthews without Marner. I think Domi-Matthews-Bert line was pretty good!

 

[Apex Predator]

I don't disagree with you that we need more out of Matthews but quite frankly he does show up in games 5 to 7

IMHO if he wasn't saddled with the dead weight that is Marner I think Matthews would have done more. He does play heavy, wins board battles, lays body; but when he makes the play Marner is just figure skating and turnsover the puck all the time in the o-zone.

If Matthews is always supposed to be a shooter it is easier to defend him; but when Matthews makes the play nobody on his line would take the shot and Marner would ruin any offensive momentum in the o-zone.

I'd like to see Matthews without Marner for extended period of time. He was pretty good in Gm 2 this season; then he got sick which sucks. And he is the one that set up the goal in Gm7 for Willy; and wasn't on ice for goal against even though he wasn't 100%.

I do agree that given Matthews' AAV, his output must be more and he must make his linemates better. But for that we must see Matthews without Marner. I think Domi-Matthews-Bert line was pretty good!

It’s been a while since Matthews and Nylander were together on a line but i would love to see them with Domi. Domi the playmaker with a couple shotters should keep the other team honest as they can’t focus on shutting down only Matthews.

 

[PromisedLand]

I don't know the specific timeline but if I'm running things Marner and Tavares are gone no later than end of next season. I also think Bertuzzi should be a cap casualty if he doesn't take less money. That will definitely open the possibility of adding another top end forward IMO. And I think our top playoff needs are more scoring and better goaltending. If it's between Guentzel at $8 million and Bertuzzi at $6 million, I'm taking Guentzel and the extra $2 million all day long. I'm not sure yet what we have in Woll, and the free agent goalie market looks better next off-season.

If we can dump Marner and get Guentzel at 8 AAV I wouldn't mind that but that wouldn't be my first go to move.

We can't just sign Guentzel while having 11AAV+ forwards (four of them) on the roster already. Guentzel for me is a swap for Marner straight up and we gain 3AAV in cap space that can be put to better use immediately! Also lets not forget Guentzel played with freakin' Crosby. Crosby is a different beast. Guentzel is 29 years old, he already has 2 cups I think he is just looking for a payday now.

If Guentzel's ask is more than 8 AAV (I've seen Daily Faceoff's projection of 8 AAV); I'd rather go a different route.

For me the first thing Leafs MUST do is get Marner off the cap; then wait out Tavares' last year. Meanwhile, make moves that do not hinder Leafs significantly capwise and at the same time let the young guys develop into prominent roles (Knies, McMann, Holmberg, Robertson, Cowan, Minten, etc...).

IMHO there is no rush to sign a player like Guentzel right now; its not an immediate need. Our scoring issue stems from having Marner logging big minutes and laying a freakin' EGG when it comes to production especially during crunch time (Gm 5 to Gm 7). I would like to see if others get that ice-time can they produce especially the youngsters; because if they can then we can save the cap space and get better elsewhere instead of giving it to Guentzel.

 

[ULF_55]

Nobody paying marner more than willy ot pasta
The way ferris thinks he ll want draisatl money
Its reality .mitch should take a extension of his current deal or waive his no moce

I've thought about Draisaitl and marner contracts, but just never got to A > B in my head.

You could be very correct in that marner is not signing before he knows how much others are getting.

 

[keonsbitterness]

July 1st is only a benchmark for re-signing ..

Today June 7th and any day forward (including the entry draft) is a potential day to trade him away, blocked only by a current NMC (which is negotiable).

July 1st only important date in that regard is that Marner receives a massive bonus .. For the 2024-25 season, his salary is comprised of $7,250,000 in signing bonuses and $775,000 in base salary. That is an important fact that all interested trade partners no doubt might consider here.

Who is this mystery team(s) willing to pay the 7m bonus AND give us good trade value pre-July 1?

 

[PromisedLand]

I'm not sure I want to remain in cap hell for another season but if Mitch took the same money, it could buy his some goodwill from the fan base. Then again, running it back is insanity.

I don't even want Marner at 6 AAV on the Leafs. He is a freakin' LOSER! and a Pillsbury soft baked cookie kinda player. He MUST NOT be a Leaf any longer. There is 8 years of evidence of it ffs. COME ON!

 

[notDatsyuk]

Marner could be a Pittsburgh Penguin by end of business today, no one preventing that possibility but Mitch to be re-united with his former GM and his new big fat contract discussions to begin.

That is what I said..

July 1st only relevant then to when Pens can make that extension official. If Marner accepts a trade now he qualifies for a full 8 year extension with his new team.

The other difference is that if the trade date is after July 1 we are out the cash for his bonus.

 

[notDatsyuk]

It’s been a while since Matthews and Nylander were together on a line but i would love to see them with Domi. Domi the playmaker with a couple shotters should keep the other team honest as they can’t focus on shutting down only Matthews.

I'd rather see us do it similar to Edmonton: Willy as 2C, and stack Matty and Willy when necessary.

 

[ULF_55]

I don't disagree with you that we need more out of Matthews but quite frankly he does show up in games 5 to 7

IMHO if he wasn't saddled with the dead weight that is Marner I think Matthews would have done more. He does play heavy, wins board battles, lays body; but when he makes the play Marner is just figure skating and turnsover the puck all the time in the o-zone.

If Matthews is always supposed to be a shooter it is easier to defend him; but when Matthews makes the play nobody on his line would take the shot and Marner would ruin any offensive momentum in the o-zone.

I'd like to see Matthews without Marner for extended period of time. He was pretty good in Gm 2 this season; then he got sick which sucks. And he is the one that set up the goal in Gm7 for Willy; and wasn't on ice for goal against even though he wasn't 100%.

I do agree that given Matthews' AAV, his output must be more and he must make his linemates better. But for that we must see Matthews without Marner. I think Domi-Matthews-Bert line was pretty good!

Is it that marner just get wore out over time in the playoffs?
Could it be coaching, with him getting too many minutes early and running out of steam?

If we can believe the stats:

6', 180 lb.
6', 202 lb.
6'1", 211 lb.
6'3". 215 lb.