Player Discussion Mitch Marner - On Hiatus

[Punch Drunk Loov]

Is it that marner just get wore out over time in the playoffs?
Could it be coaching, with him getting too many minutes early and running out of steam?

If we can believe the stats:

6', 180 lb.
6', 202 lb.
6'1", 211 lb.
6'3". 215 lb.

He's worn out in round 1? In his early to mid 20s?

 

[ULF_55]

He's worn out in round 1? In his early to mid 20s?

Doesn't it look statistically like the longer a series goes the less effective he becomes?

It isn't like he's an unknown player, and teams are unaware of how he plays in games 1-4.

 

[Antropovsky]

Is it that marner just get wore out over time in the playoffs?
Could it be coaching, with him getting too many minutes early and running out of steam?

If we can believe the stats:

6', 180 lb.
6', 202 lb.
6'1", 211 lb.
6'3". 215 lb.

.... it's not like he starts the season playing in the dirty areas and then suddenly stops... he never plays in those areas. He gets away from it in the season because there is more space, less speed, more complacency, lazyness etc but once the playoffs roll around, everyone for the most part, turns it up in those areas except him. And he actually fears it, so he begins treating the puck like a hot potato and going further from the net into areas with more space and he gets caught from behind with the puck because he doesn't play the game at a high speed.

 

[Notsince67]

Likely peers around the league making a similar salary, not necessarily fans on a message board who are not paid to play professional hockey.

Really lowering the bar here

Sure so lets talk specifics. Which players and are there qualities in a hockey player other than a shot and physical play accumen. It wasn't my proposition to defend so why would I attempt to blindly pick the constraints to an arbitrary attempt to smear?

 

[Antropovsky]

Sure so lets talk specifics. Which players and are there qualities in a hockey player other than a shot and physical play accumen. It wasn't my proposition to defend so why would I attempt to blindly pick the constraints to an arbitrary attempt to smear?

Or why don't you do the work to defend your argument instead of always asking others to.

What star players with playoff success have similar traits to Marner?

BTW add lack of speed as a major reason Marner struggles in the playoffs. No shot and scared of dirty areas also being big.

 

[Racer88]

Would only happen if they win the Cup

I would then expect all fans including myself would be ecstatic and give him a raise

 

[PromisedLand]

Is it that marner just get wore out over time in the playoffs?
Could it be coaching, with him getting too many minutes early and running out of steam?

If we can believe the stats:

6', 180 lb.
6', 202 lb.
6'1", 211 lb.
6'3". 215 lb.

I don't think so really.... in terms of "size".... Kucherov, Guentzel, Point, etc...) aren't that "big". As the saying goes.... its not the size of the dog in a fight, its the size of the fight in the dog that matters.

Coaching also not so much an issue. I mean how is it that other guys don't feel that "impact"?

Is the coach also telling marner to:
- Not go into corners? or give up on board battles?
- Play like an absolute MORON against CBJ?
- Put the puck out against the habs and given them 5 on 3?
- Turnover the puck in Game 7 against the habs at the offensive blue line when the game is 0-0?
- Turnover the puck in game 6 in OT against the bolts (first time around) and then play like a jackass when Point walks in to score the winner and then lay an absolute egg in game 7?
- Turnover the puck against Florida in gm 2 playing mickymouse hockey with matthews after Leafs had just scored a goal to give momentum right back to them? heck be a complete MORON in the entire series
- Play like a jackass against the bruins and throw a hissyfit on the bench like a petulant child
- and again in gm 7 in OT let pastrnak get an easy route for a dump-in puck bounce of the wall to score the series winner?


I could keep giving many examples. Its not coaching or size. Its the player who cannot play and put up offensive numbers when the going gets tough. Wants easy life and easy game where there is time and space. When time and space are not there i.e. PLAYOFFS especially from game 5 to game 7 as teams adjust; this player (i.e. Marner) ghosts out there.

11 AAV for such a player is downright abysmal heck i would call it a CRIME against Leafs fans in a cap world.

 

[ULF_55]

Who is this mystery team(s) willing to pay the 7m bonus AND give us good trade value pre-July 1?

Again I don't think the $7mm bonus is an issue.

It would be if it were like those front end signing bonuses.

ex. $15,200,000 signing bonus with a $11 Cap Hit.

It's actually the opposite.

If there was no signing bonus it could actually be $10.9mm real money, rather than $8.25mm real money.

The Team would actually getting a $11mm player for $8mm.

It would be a team who is willing to pay him $12mm per season otherwise they'd never trade for him.

 

[Gary Nylund]

If a question is asked properly with accepted presuppositions and context, I have no problem answering a question. Questions that are leading are disingenuous. The team lost. It wasnt good enough. Everyone needs to take responsibility for it. I want the team to be better. This includes Marner. There is little to separate the output of Marner vs the rest of the team other than the.fact he is deployed in every situation.

I asked for your opinion on how Marner played in our last 2 playoff series, period. It's a very simple question, not leading in any way and you can jump through all the hoops you want, the simple truth is that you're not answering the question. IMO there were 3 possible ways this could go:

1 - you admit that in you opinion, Marner played poorly
2 - you say that Marner played well (meaning you're either lying or you don't understand hockey)
3 - you deflect, refusing to answer the question

I figured the odds of #3 happening were about 99% and that's exactly what happened. Make all the excuse you want, give all the "reasons" you want but we all know it's bullshit. Marner played like crap, you know it, I know it, everyone else knows it and your intellectual dishonesty is preventing you from admitting it and as a result, what's left of your credibility takes a hit.

This is where you go on an insulting rant about how smart you are, and how stupid everyone is that doesn't fall for you bullshit.

Over to you.

 

[notDatsyuk]

Is it that marner just get wore out over time in the playoffs?
Could it be coaching, with him getting too many minutes early and running out of steam?

If we can believe the stats:

6', 180 lb.
6', 202 lb.
6'1", 211 lb.
6'3". 215 lb.

Since those aren't in the same order as the 'game 5, 6, 7' stats, you should be clear:

Mitch 6' 180
Willy 6' 202
JT - 6'1" 211
Matty - 6'3" 215

I know the playoffs are considered a battle of attrition, but if Marner gets that badly worn out or runs out of steam that easily in four games, we really don't want him around if we hope to play 16-28!

 

[LaPlante94]

Doesn't it look statistically like the longer a series goes the less effective he becomes?

It isn't like he's an unknown player, and teams are unaware of how he plays in games 1-4.

Early in the series for Round 1 the games are played wild and free as emotions and adrenaline are at their highest the entire playoffs which leads to higher scoring games or defensive structure not being what it is later in the rounds.

 

[Mess]

It would be a team who is willing to pay him $12mm per season otherwise they'd never trade for him.

Agreed

Any team that is willing to pay Marner his $12 mil long-term will not be put off by only being on the hook for $8 mil in 2024-25.

Its now up to Marner to decide which team he would like to sign that next contract with, because at present it doesn't appear its his current one that neither has much appetite to continue as is, nor willing to invest even more into a Core 4 that has proven unsuccessful and desiring change.

The roulette wheel of the current Core 4 seems to have landed on Marner the one to cut it down to 3 x $11 mil members for next year if management had their choice.

Marner will come to this conclusion in time that his best including financial interest is to play softball and play along with MLSE wishes and not hardball and face those consequences.

8 years @ $12 mil = $96 mil guaranteed is a lot of security as opposed to stubbornly playing out the year in TO because he has a NMC right to do so, and then risk potential injury during the regular season or playoffs on an expiring contract to hit UFA season with a great unknown... If I were his agent or his parents I know which option I would encourage he consider once it seems he as accepted his time with the Leafs is likely done.

 

[WTFMAN99]

Early in the series for Round 1 the games are played wild and free as emotions and adrenaline are at their highest the entire playoffs which leads to higher scoring games or defensive structure not being what it is later in the rounds.

Penalties per game drops by like 1.5 a series

It was on the screen the other day w hen I was working out.

By the time the SCF rolls around it's something like 3ish penalties per game are called.

First round? 6ish per game.

 

[Gary Nylund]

Early in the series for Round 1 the games are played wild and free as emotions and adrenaline are at their highest the entire playoffs which leads to higher scoring games or defensive structure not being what it is later in the rounds.

Yes, this makes a lot of sense.

 

[HamiltonNHL]

don't disagree with you that we need more out of Matthews but quite frankly he does show up in games 5 to 7

IMHO if he wasn't saddled with the dead weight that is Marner

Zero goals for Marner.

Horrible.

Frankly unbelievable.

Dubas is a loser.

So is Darren Ferris.

 

[LaPlante94]

Penalties per game drops by like 1.5 a series

It was on the screen the other day w hen I was working out.

By the time the SCF rolls around it's something like 3ish penalties per game are called.

First round? 6ish per game.

Can't really blame the players because after quite a few teams go so many months playing meaningless hockey to getting to play in front of better crowds and back to playing for something it pumps you up. Fans are probably the same way early in the series just watching.

 

[57 Years No Cup]

Or why don't you do the work to defend your argument instead of always asking others to.

What star players with playoff success have similar traits to Marner?

BTW add lack of speed as a major reason Marner struggles in the playoffs. No shot and scared of dirty areas also being big.

I don't know why you waste your time with him. It's OBVIOUS there's a business or personal relationship there.

 

[57 Years No Cup]

I don't think so really.... in terms of "size".... Kucherov, Guentzel, Point, etc...) aren't that "big". As the saying goes.... its not the size of the dog in a fight, its the size of the fight in the dog that matters.

Coaching also not so much an issue. I mean how is it that other guys don't feel that "impact"?

Is the coach also telling marner to:
- Not go into corners? or give up on board battles?
- Play like an absolute MORON against CBJ?
- Put the puck out against the habs and given them 5 on 3?
- Turnover the puck in Game 7 against the habs at the offensive blue line when the game is 0-0?
- Turnover the puck in game 6 in OT against the bolts (first time around) and then play like a jackass when Point walks in to score the winner and then lay an absolute egg in game 7?
- Turnover the puck against Florida in gm 2 playing mickymouse hockey with matthews after Leafs had just scored a goal to give momentum right back to them? heck be a complete MORON in the entire series
- Play like a jackass against the bruins and throw a hissyfit on the bench like a petulant child
- and again in gm 7 in OT let pastrnak get an easy route for a dump-in puck bounce of the wall to score the series winner?


I could keep giving many examples. Its not coaching or size. Its the player who cannot play and put up offensive numbers when the going gets tough. Wants easy life and easy game where there is time and space. When time and space are not there i.e. PLAYOFFS especially from game 5 to game 7 as teams adjust; this player (i.e. Marner) ghosts out there.

11 AAV for such a player is downright abysmal heck i would call it a CRIME against Leafs fans in a cap world.

Well done PL, WELL DONE! Expect to be harassed by Quartexx Management and Rocket Security lackeys shortly.

I asked for your opinion on how Marner played in our last 2 playoff series, period. It's a very simple question, not leading in any way and you can jump through all the hoops you want, the simple truth is that you're not answering the question. IMO there were 3 possible ways this could go:

1 - you admit that in you opinion, Marner played poorly
2 - you say that Marner played well (meaning you're either lying or you don't understand hockey)
3 - you deflect, refusing to answer the question

I figured the odds of #3 happening were about 99% and that's exactly what happened. Make all the excuse you want, give all the "reasons" you want but we all know it's bullshit. Marner played like crap, you know it, I know it, everyone else knows it and your intellectual dishonesty is preventing you from admitting it and as a result, what's left of your credibility takes a hit.

This is where you go on an insulting rant about how smart you are, and how stupid everyone is that doesn't fall for you bullshit.

Over to you.

BOOM!

 

[Kazparov]

Have you guys checked out the comments on his Instagram? It's a literal shit show of negativity

 

[thewave]

Since those aren't in the same order as the 'game 5, 6, 7' stats, you should be clear:

Mitch 6' 180
Willy 6' 202
JT - 6'1" 211
Matty - 6'3" 215

I know the playoffs are considered a battle of attrition, but if Marner gets that badly worn out or runs out of steam that easily in four games, we really don't want him around if we hope to play 16-28!

There is a pic of Nylander standing beside Marner on his instagram. Nylander has to lean down like 3 inches so I am calling bs on the 6ft claim

There is also a pic of him kissing a dog and his wife lifting him up and spinning him around in her wedding dress.

 

[Kazparov]

Are Marner defenders now claiming he hits in playoff games now? Dear lord

 

[QJo]

Shanny basically said without saying that moving on from Marner IS THE CHANGE.

Management WANT him gone.

They picked Nylander OVER Marner.

anyone, who thinks you can create a balanced with with two RWs making over 10 is incorrect.

Management will NOT do that.

They are moving on from Marner. If Marner won't waive, he's playing third line and PP2.




maybe in the Saudi 3 on 3 league. not the nhl.

Only a Sith deals in absolutes (Ignore the irony of course that that statement itself is an absolute).

 

[BrannigansLaw]

Have you guys checked out the comments on his Instagram? It's a literal shit show of negativity

Not sure why he still even wants to stay here given how fragile he is mentally.

He is one of the most pathetic players along the boards I have ever seen. The number of times he’s the first to a puck but bails out and lets the opposition get it while trying to angle his stupid body to block off the outlet is infuriating. It happened multiple times in Game 7 this year and it really pissed me off. You’ll never win with a guy like that as a core player. Maybe a complimentary piece sure but his salary is nowhere near complimentary.

He’s clearly worn out his welcome here and should just waive so we can all move on from this loser. Wish Tavares would do the same.

Penalties per game drops by like 1.5 a series

It was on the screen the other day w hen I was working out.

By the time the SCF rolls around it's something like 3ish penalties per game are called.

First round? 6ish per game.

Wouldn’t matter for us. We couldn’t score a PP goal even with 12 per game. We’d kill them all off skating around the perimeter and making stupid drop passes.

 

[TMLAM34]

Mitch’s agent can say whatever the hell he wants in the media, everyone already knows his games.

I get Marner’s from Toronto but with all the media hate and pressure on him, not sure how he even wants to return in the blue and white. He’s basically hated by the fan base and media right now and any bump in the road on the ice next season he’s going to hear it.

If I were Marner I’d be the one going to Treliving sooner than later and being like listen I’ll waive to these teams only, let me know when you have something worked out.

 

[Gary Nylund]

There is a pic of Nylander standing beside Marner on his instagram. Nylander has to lean down like 3 inches so I am calling bs on the 6ft claim

There is also a pic of him kissing a dog and his wife lifting him up and spinning him around in her wedding dress.

LOL. The only way this could be funnier if it was "his" wedding dress. LOL again.