Player Discussion Mitch Marner - On Hiatus

[thewave]

I don't accept the presupposition that he doesn't have a shot nor cant play is a physical series. Compared to what?
I am 99.9% sure that he could do both of those things to a far greater extent than yourself. Who or what are you comparing him to and why?

Ok so you are unsure of the odds of him being signed. That's fair.

In playoffs especially, why does he avoid virtually all contact? Even in a hard checking playoff series where time and space matters he gets out that way.

A) is it because he is physically fragile?
B) is he mentally afraid of contact
C) cares more about his health than risk
D) 2 or 3 of the above
E) your own answer here

 

[Mess]

I get the impression some feel there is some type of animosity between the team and player.
That seems to be more applying ones feelings to the situation than the reality of it.

A lot of this nonsense should be paused until July 1 when he becomes eligible to be re-signed.

July 1st is only a benchmark for re-signing ..

Today June 7th and any day forward (including the entry draft) is a potential day to trade him away, blocked only by a current NMC (which is negotiable).

July 1st only important date in that regard is that Marner receives a massive bonus .. For the 2024-25 season, his salary is comprised of $7,250,000 in signing bonuses and $775,000 in base salary. That is an important fact that all interested trade partners no doubt might consider here.

 

[Notsince67]

Ok so you are unsure of the odds of him being signed. That's fair.

In playoffs especially, why does he avoid virtually all contact? Even in a hard checking playoff series where time and space matters he checks out that way.

A) is it because he is physically fragile?
B) is he mentally afraid of contact
C) cares more about his health than risk
D) 2 or 3 of the above
E) your own answer here

A presupposition devoid of facts.
Explain career playoff hits

Marner 1.22/gm
Nylander .704/gm
Kuutcherov 1.22/gm
Pastrnak 1.5/gm
Marchand 1.24/gm

 

[thewave]

A presupposition devoid of facts.
Explain career playoff hits

Marner 1.22/gm
Nylander .704/gm
Kuutcherov 1.22/gm
Pastrnak 1.5/gm
Marchand 1.24/gm

Ok. That is one of the most puzzling thing's I have ever seen. It is so puzzling i would ask who is keeping track and what constitutes a check.

I have said plenty of times before he is a stat padder. Like a video gamer. Its fake like his random shots on net.. He does not hit. He bumps people.

He does not take a check to make a play or go into the corners.

The deeper you go with this guy the more you expose. We are on good track here though.

 

[ACC1224]

July 1st is only a benchmark for re-signing ..

Today June 7th and any day forward (including the entry draft) is a potential day to trade him away, blocked only by a current NMC (which is negotiable).

July 1st only important date in that regard is that Marner receives a massive bonus .. For the 2024-25 season, his salary is comprised of $7,250,000 in signing bonuses and $775,000 in base salary. That is an important fact that all interested trade partners no doubt might consider here.

Yes, July 1st is the important date, that's what I said.

 

[Gary Nylund]

Ok. That is one of the most puzzling thing's I have ever seen. It is so puzzling i would ask who is keeping track and what constitutes a check.

I have said plenty of times before he is a stat padder. Like a video gamer. Its fake like his random shots on net.. He does not hit. He bumps people.

He does not take a check to make a play or go into the corners.

The deeper you go with this guy the more you expose. We are on good track here though.

My understanding is that hit stats are worthless because what constitutes a check varies wildly from person to person.

 

[Nineteen67]

I don't accept the presupposition that he doesn't have a shot nor cant play is a physical series. Compared to what?
I am 99.9% sure that he could do both of those things to a far greater extent than yourself. Who or what are you comparing him to and why?

His shot may be better than @thewave , but it ain’t beatin’ no Zamboni driver.

 

[Notsince67]

Ok. That is one of the most puzzling thing's I have ever seen. It is so puzzling i would ask who is keeping track and what constitutes a check.

I have said plenty of times before he is a stat padder. Like a video gamer. Its fake like his random shots on net.. He does not hit. He bumps people.

He does not take a check to make a play or go into the corners.

The deeper you go with this guy the more you expose. We are on good track here though.

If you dispute the facts, bring new ones to demonstrate what you are saying is true. I am hardly able to comment on something that isn't supported by the official record.

 

[Gary Nylund]

A presupposition devoid of facts.
Explain career playoff hits

Marner 1.22/gm
Nylander .704/gm
Kuutcherov 1.22/gm
Pastrnak 1.5/gm
Marchand 1.24/gm

OK forget stats for a moment. You watch the guy play and you consider yourself to be knowledgeable on the subject right? So based on your eye test alone, I'm curious as to how you would answer these questions:

1 - Do you consider Marner to be a physical player? By physical, I mean someone who doesn't avoid contact and will take a hit to make a play.
2 - How would you rate Marner's play in the playoffs against Boston this year?
3 - How would you rate Marner's play in the playoffs last year against Florida?

 

[notDatsyuk]

So JT has a better ppg than the 2nd best player in the world when it really matters? Interesting.

He had the advantage of playing with Willy rather than Mitch?

 

[HamiltonNHL]

From the reports released so far for public consumption is that neither side is any hurry to talk contract extension.

That’s obviously lip service

 

[Punch Drunk Loov]

Those Marner hit checks are really high. I bet that's close to even guys like McCabe and Lyubushkin.

Nobody is mistaking Mitch for the physicality those defensemen have. That's a pretty easy argument to shoot down if we're saying that Mitch is actually a physical playoff grinder. No he's not.

Mitch finishing a check is him doing his job with the minutes he has.

I'm not mad at Marner for not being intimidating on the ice. It's not the style he brings.

I'll take a shot at Willy and Boucher while I'm at it. I saw one shift, Boucher was giving Nylander a pat on the back because he won a puck battle on the PK and cleared the puck. Winning a 50/50 sometimes should be a given for players making 11M. So should playing hard

 

[notDatsyuk]

I never said they werent. I wasnt the one throwing up cherry picked stats of the playoffs. I was merely pointing out that players that only show up on game 5,6 & 7 arent the heroes of the playoffs because there might not have been a need to get to these games had everyone been clicking

I think the issue is not "only show up on games 5, 6, and 7", but "disappear in games 5, 6, and 7".

 

[GoonieFace]

Ok. That is one of the most puzzling thing's I have ever seen. It is so puzzling i would ask who is keeping track and what constitutes a check.

I have said plenty of times before he is a stat padder. Like a video gamer. Its fake like his random shots on net.. He does not hit. He bumps people.

He does not take a check to make a play or go into the corners.

The deeper you go with this guy the more you expose. We are on good track here though.

He actually threw a nice hit in Game 1 or 2, can’t remember. That same game he got hit fairly hard and than disappeared for the remainder of the series.

 

[Mess]

Yes, July 1st is the important date, that's what I said.

Marner could be a Pittsburgh Penguin by end of business today, no one preventing that possibility but Mitch to be re-united with his former GM and his new big fat contract discussions to begin.

That is what I said..

July 1st only relevant then to when Pens can make that extension official. If Marner accepts a trade now he qualifies for a full 8 year extension with his new team.

 

[Antropovsky]

I think the issue is not "only show up on games 5, 6, and 7", but "disappear in games 5, 6, and 7".

Biggest issue is that he doesn't go to the dirty areas of the ice which prevents his linemates from offensive opportunities. "Pulling the chute" vs Montreal and Boston are both examples of him being first on the puck, but instead letting the opponent have it and subsequently them taking possession and his linemates being screwed out of an opportunity. Same goes for Marner not going to the front of the net... it prevents his linemates from screened goal scoring opportunity and rebound assists etc. Check out Marners few goals and even assists, his linemates often forechecked hard or were screening the goal, which enabled him the points. Without even trying I can think of many times this occured.

 

[mydnyte]

The last three games many not be more important but they are absolutely tougher. Why do you think Leafs have so much difficulty closing out teams?

100% Coaching
...for example, game 7 OT, Bertuzzi gets a shift and skates to the bench creating the game losing goal, while Matthews watches from the bench, not having a shift on OT.

Bloody hell, start your best players on the 1st shift, and overload it and go for the win, many OT games are won/lost in the first 2 mins.

 

[socko]

Guentzel is a good player but we what cap percentage allocation do we need to give Guentzel that we probably cannot achieve with youngsters filling out depth roles (Knies, McMann, Holmberg, Cowan, Minten, etc.).

Second, do we go after Guentzel while still having four forwards at 11+ AAV on the cap next season? that IMO is bad cap allocation. Unless the plan is to tank next season which IMO not a good idea as dubas traded the primary picks for the upcoming season.

In terms of defense; options:

Option 1 (ideal)
- Get an offensive minded D-man (UFA available: Montour) unless we wanna offersheet Sieder

Option 2 (tied with first option IMO)
- Trade Marner for offensive D-man (Werenski, Weegar) etc... Here is a list of D-men by points

NHL Stats

The official source for NHL Stats including skaters, goalies, teams stats and more.

www.nhl.com

Option 2 (2nd best option)
- Get a defensive minded D-man that can play tough minutes (UFA: Pesce, DeMelo)
- Free up Rielly to embrace fully offensive role (5 on 5)
- Give Lily fulltime #1 PP unit duties tell him he won't be taken off so there are no confidence issues and see what we really have in him

Rielly Pesce/DeMelo
McCabe Benoit
XXX Liljegren
XXX

I don't know the specific timeline but if I'm running things Marner and Tavares are gone no later than end of next season. I also think Bertuzzi should be a cap casualty if he doesn't take less money. That will definitely open the possibility of adding another top end forward IMO. And I think our top playoff needs are more scoring and better goaltending. If it's between Guentzel at $8 million and Bertuzzi at $6 million, I'm taking Guentzel and the extra $2 million all day long. I'm not sure yet what we have in Woll, and the free agent goalie market looks better next off-season.

 

[mydnyte]

I get the impression some feel there is some type of animosity between the team and player.
That seems to be more applying ones feelings to the situation than the reality of it.

A lot of this nonsense should be paused until July 1 when he becomes eligible to be re-signed.

I think the only real animosity is between the fans and their expectations

how some people want to resign Bertuzzi for example, who directly cost us the game 7 loss, and unload Marner instead is frightening. ...and this is coming from a guy who was on the trade Marner bandwagon BEFORE he signed his current deal.

 

[ACC1224]

Marner could be a Pittsburgh Penguin by end of business today, no one preventing that possibility but Mitch to be re-united with his former GM and his new big fat contract discussions to begin.

That is what I said..

July 1st only relevant then to when Pens can make that extension official. If Marner accepts a trade now he qualifies for a full 8 year extension with his new team.

Logic prevents it.

 

[Notsince67]

OK forget stats for a moment. You watch the guy play and you consider yourself to be knowledgeable on the subject right? So based on your eye test alone, I'm curious as to how you would answer these questions:

1 - Do you consider Marner to be a physical player? By physical, I mean someone who doesn't avoid contact and will take a hit to make a play.
2 - How would you rate Marner's play in the playoffs against Boston this year?
3 - How would you rate Marner's play in the playoffs last year against Florida?

Rate? Relative to what? Why are you only including Florida last year and not adding the whole playoffs that include Tampa? It kind of tips your hand. You are looking for subjective commentary that includes feelings and opinions but clearly want to avoid objective discussion by forgetting stats "for a moment". From that perspective, why rate against anything at all? Its just and eristic exercise that doesnt care to sacrifice the truth.

 

[mydnyte]

Logic prevents it.

and lack of quality assets too

 

[socko]

and lack of quality assets too

I'll take draft picks and retain salary for more/better draft picks.

 

[MSZ]

Marner fans logic:

Collecting a large amount of points during the garbage time in game 1 to 4 means he is a playoff warrior.

A complete MIA during game 5 to 7? Nah these games don't matter, it's a team issue, coaching issue.

 

[ToneDog]

Marner could be a Pittsburgh Penguin by end of business today, no one preventing that possibility but Mitch to be re-united with his former GM and his new big fat contract discussions to begin.

That is what I said..

July 1st only relevant then to when Pens can make that extension official. If Marner accepts a trade now he qualifies for a full 8 year extension with his new team.

Doubt any owner wants to pay that fat $7+m bonus due on July 1st.