Player Discussion Mitch Marner - On Hiatus

[arso40]

I think the fact that there is not a word of extension and from MM's camp, he wants to play out the contract... showed there were already discussions and the answer was NO.
Look at what Tre said last summer about Willie, always been we want to resign him, and from Willie-I will bet on myself...you can sense both sides want to sign but they can't agree on price.
Where as with MM now, it seems like both sides know this is the end.

I'm sure he was looking to trade willy but the returns weren't good enough but the tone with marner does sound completely different from the agent and our gm

 

[notDatsyuk]

If it’s anything but a sign and trade it will be a disaster for this organization for years to come.

If it's anything but a sign for $10+ with NMC it will have averted a disaster for this organization for years to come.

 

[Mess]

I'm wondering if Treliving has the balls to go to Marner and tell him he's not in their future plans and won't be re-signed, and that if he wants to maximize his earnings that takes him to retirement on an 8 year deal, to work out a sign-and-trade. That's what Tre should do this summer if he thinks the team should move away from Marner.

You don't go from Zero to 60 in 1 step.

Step 1). Meet with agent and inform him that a future contract not a high priority and in fact no contract talks take place other than that.. Marner's agent now gets the message and responds publicly with they have no interest in talking contract either any time soon. So now both sides know where the other stands.

- You need to allow time for the Marner camp come to grips with the situation and then accept the team would like to move on from him.

Step 2) Inform the NHL GMs that you're looking for change, and noting that "you're not going to make change for the sake of change, and Marner is a good player and not going to give him away". So in GM speak this is Marner is available but because he has a NMC there is no use bringing me low ball offers... BT is only going to take serious deals to Marner and his agent to see if they will waive?

- All interested teams are not going to make big offers without getting Marner extended on acceptable terms to team and player where all 3 sides now are happy with return and contract terms .

Step 3) Talk to Darren Farris again with the offer and that this new team really wants Mitch and is looking at a sign and trade deal that woud benefit them and Marner with an additional 8th year term deal, and even allow Farris permission to discuss new contract terms with interested team. If successful the waiving of the NMC to allow the trade to complete is just a formality at that point.

We're only at the very early stages here and have to watch as this unfolds slowly over the summer.. When the shock is over that Marner is accepting his Leafs career is likely over, and unless there is no other options available and Marner then begins to play out the year and BT has not burned any bridges where all options remain on the table. No need to play hardball out of the gate when you can get the end result you still want with patience and willingness to have all side come together.

PS. Treliving did a sign and trade deal with Tkachuk to Florida so has experience on completing one.

 

[Gabriel426]

For Marner who likely wanted to play his entire career as a Leaf then Willy's new shining 8 year and $92 mil totals ($11.5 mil AAV) contract must be looking really good to him and perhaps he might even be a little envious that it's not his.

His American teammate Austin is locked in, and his Swedish teammate Willy is locked in, and now the locally born GTA and Canadian kid Mitch is trending to on the way out.

Not the way one would have guessed this would have played out. IMO

Well, he had his chances. The thing is this is a get it done league and he just couldn't get it done.

If I am MM, I would start throwing videos and clips of him working out and bulking up, also working on his shots on social medias in order to at least show the fan bases that he is working on his weaknesses. Hopefully to gain some positive vibes.

 

[Superstar]

Local GTA kid grew up a Leafs fan and likely believed he might be able to play his entire career in Toronto after being drafted by his dream team.

I wonder if Marner now regrets he went for top dollar $$ on his last deal, and shorter term now that it looks like this might be his last year as a Leaf potentially as a result.

Had he gone for term and locked himself in for the full 8 years on this current contract, he would have 3 more years on this current deal and not going anywhere for a long time. Now due to circumstances he may have cut his own dream short in Toronto as a result.

He also decided to bet on himself and now that HE and the TEAM have come up short of expectations, that gamble failed. He also wanted to go last to the contract trough and use the leverage of his teammate contracts to his financial gain.

Marner now likely sees himself as the scapegoat and the one having to pay the price of organizational change of plan and direction. Now timing has his other 2 Amigo's locked up and locked in, (despite having the same playoff team record) and with the team wanting to go in a new direction now it likely comes at his expiring contract.

I'm speculating now with hindsight and retrospective analysis if Mitch had a do over, he would have done things differently. IMO

The irony is the Leafs offered him a 7 year deal that his side scoffed at, and they settled for a 6 year deal instead...had he signed the 7 year deal, Tavares' contract would end before his, so he would have still been around with JT off the books...karma is a funny thing.

 

[Gabriel426]

I'm sure he was looking to trade willy but the returns weren't good enough but the tone with marner does sound completely different from the agent and our gm

I am not denying they were looking to offload Willie but when you compare the tone or words from both sides a year ago to now, it is night and day.
Like I said, the question with Willie was always, the money of the contract rather than the offers wasn't good and thats why we ended up resigning him. Where as with MM is, lets get a deal done but only if it makes sense as both sides are happy to play it out with no words on resigning.

 

[ToneDog]

....won't happen, unless the Leafs weren't in a playoff position.

Why not trade him at the TDL if we still have no plans to resign him? It is not like he is going to suddenly dominate in April. Get something for him while you still can. He might waive if he did not in July.

Cap hit will be easier to fit in and he is owed very little in terms of real dollars.

 

[Trapper]

I am not denying they were looking to offload Willie but when you compare the tone or words from both sides a year ago to now, it is night and day.
Like I said, the question with Willie was always, the money of the contract rather than the offers wasn't good and thats why we ended up resigning him. Where as with MM is, lets get a deal done but only if it makes sense as both sides are happy to play it out with no words on resigning.

I don’t think they were shopping Nylander.
They might have listened, but they weren’t calling.
It seems strange to try and trade a player you turn around and sign for 8 years and state signing him was your only priority.

Marner on the other hand, they could be listening and calling. If they don’t like the deal or Marner doesn’t waive, it’s status quo. That doesn’t mean they will re-sign him.

 

[Trapper]

Why not trade him at the TDL if we still have no plans to resign him? It is not like he is going to suddenly dominate in April. Get something for him while you still can. He might waive if he did not in July.

Cap hit will be easier to fit in and he is owed very little in terms of real dollars.

People say Marner has all the power but he doesn’t. He just made a big mistake. He came out to the media and said how he doesn’t want leave, probably wants to retire a Leaf and are treated like Gods. The power is all ours.
Here’s your contract offer, it’s not 12+ million, it has a 10 team NTC and it’s under our conditions. If that’s not good, guess you don’t retire a Leaf.
Not that I would re-sign him, but the team has the power. You can walk, that’s all you can do.

 

[Nineteen67]

I'm wondering if Treliving has the balls to go to Marner and tell him he's not in their future plans and won't be re-signed, and that if he wants to maximize his earnings that takes him to retirement on an 8 year deal, to work out a sign-and-trade. That's what Tre should do this summer if he thinks the team should move away from Marner.

If they’re planning to move Marner, I’m sure they’ve had that conversation or the very least started it.

You have to get rid of more deadwood
What purpose does kampf of Jarnkrok
Have on this team
Neither one is a bonus to our team
Another 4.5 million saved


You sound like an idiot
He doesn’t have to play ball with anybody
Nothing to do with defiant
Maple leaf management gave him the NMC
They are the ones that have to honor it

What does honor it mean?

 

[Nineteen67]

Marner now likely sees himself as the scapegoat and the one having to pay the price of organizational change of plan and direction. Now timing has his other 2 Amigo's locked up and locked in, (despite having the same playoff team record) and with the team wanting to go in a new direction now it likely comes at his expiring contract.

I'm speculating now with hindsight and retrospective analysis if Mitch had a do over, he would have done things differently. IMO

Likely the scapegoat? The “leaders” had a concerted effort to use that exact term during locker clean out day.

 

[HamiltonNHL]

TRADE MARNER

Just getting in my daily rep, like this savage.

 

[Nineteen67]

Look at this and tell me its not effing embarassing to have four forwards with 11AAV+ next season with the laughable post season results. And biggest culprit of this is Marner

Ideally TRADE so we can get something back besides cap space. But worst comes to worst... let him walk as UFA if he doesn't waive to be traded. marner is not it as far as I am concerned. Leafs are not going to have any post-season success with marner and his cap hit (which will be higher if re-signed )

They all share blame, but the biggest culprit is Matthews. He’s supposed to be a franchise level superstar and he has yet to lead the team to any success. As far playoffs go, he's most known for smirking while getting rag- dolled.

 

[Notsince67]

We’re probably about to watch marners best season as a leaf.

As a fan of the team, that would make me happy.
As a fan of the team, what bugs me is history repeating intself with Marner signing for a lot more than was necessary. They could have locked him up for 8 years at 8.5mm the last time had Dubas weighed the cost risk of Marner killing it in his first year with Tavares. There is no team in the league that wants to be like the Islanders who lost a stud for nothing.
a. That is the worse case scenario.
b. The second worse case is the leafs sign Marner late for huge money and it doesn't work out. Even a voluntary move would be way more complicated. The team loses out moving him and potentially have to eat cap.
c.The third worse is they sign him this off season. If it doesn't work out, he will not be able to bear the scrutiny of the fans and media for 8 years and will agree to a trade. Given his current cap hit percentage and a projected cap of 92MM in 2025, his projected salary would be 12.3MM. 12.5MM might get it done. 1MM/year more than Willy is more than fair.

I don't give a shit that people are ok with losing him for nothing just as I don't care that people think a lot of stupid things.
He is an asset and brinkmanship is the strategy of fools.

 

[egd27]

I can’t see it at all.

Seems like it would be foolish to trade a 90+ point player as you are gearing up for the playoffs regardless of what you believe about his post season performances.

 

[egd27]

If you weren't convinced that Marner is an absolute JOKE in playoffs maybe this will convince you

So JT has a better ppg than the 2nd best player in the world when it really matters? Interesting.

 

[HamiltonNHL]

Marner NEVER lived up to his deal.

Tre will not sign Marner.
EVER.

Let's make sure EVERYONE knows that.

with that in mind, YOU HAVE to part ways with Marner July 1.

Marner is not equipped to handle the pressure if he steps on the ice next year with a Leaf jersey. It's not going to go well for him. In any likely scenario.

I believe Marner and his loser agent Ferris may be dumb enough to try it. I hope both their careers are ruined over it. Ferris is a shitty agent. He screwed Taylor Hall and many others. If he screws this up for Marner he will be seen as damaged goods.

 

[Notsince67]

So JT has a better ppg than the 2nd best player in the world when it really matters? Interesting.

What's interesting is that people believe the last 3 games of a series is more important than the first 4 given that the last 3 are conditional based on the performance of the first 4.

 

[mydnyte]

You don't go from Zero to 60 in 1 step.

Step 1). Meet with agent and inform him that a future contract not a high priority and in fact no contract talks take place other than that.. Marner's agent now gets the message and responds publicly with they have no interest in talking contract either any time soon. So now both sides know where the other stands.

- You need to allow time for the Marner camp come to grips with the situation and then accept the team would like to move on from him.

Step 2) Inform the NHL GMs that you're looking for change, and noting that "you're not going to make change for the sake of change, and Marner is a good player and not going to give him away". So in GM speak this is Marner is available but because he has a NMC there is no use bringing me low ball offers... BT is only going to take serious deals to Marner and his agent to see if they will waive?

- All interested teams are not going to make big offers without getting Marner extended on acceptable terms to team and player where all 3 sides now are happy with return and contract terms .

Step 3) Talk to Darren Farris again with the offer and that this new team really wants Mitch and is looking at a sign and trade deal that woud benefit them and Marner with an additional 8th year term deal, and even allow Farris permission to discuss new contract terms with interested team. If successful the waiving of the NMC to allow the trade to complete is just a formality at that point.

We're only at the very early stages here and have to watch as this unfolds slowly over the summer.. When the shock is over that Marner is accepting his Leafs career is likely over, and unless there is no other options available and Marner then begins to play out the year and BT has not burned any bridges where all options remain on the table. No need to play hardball out of the gate when you can get the end result you still want with patience and willingness to have all side come together.

PS. Treliving did a sign and trade deal with Tkachuk to Florida so has experience on completing one.

a more realistic Step 1) is 2 part
Part 1: Treliving meets with the agent, and finds out what type of salary and term Marner is looking for?
Part 2: then ask him, if a deal presents itself, what would be the conditions that Marner would consider it?

part 1 will obviously get an answer, though perhaps not a realistic one (i.e. 13.5x8 as a starting point)
but, its how the agent reacts to part 2 that will determine if Marner is open to a move or not.
If Marner is not open to a move, you work on part 1, because he is too good a talent to toss away, unless he is actually a 'cancer' in the locker room, but, from everything I heard, he's one of the most popular and liked players on the team, and is involved and friendly with everyone, but, if he has soured, then you tell him that he is no longer in the Leafs plans, and see if he'll move now, or at the deadline.

in your scenario, you burn your bridges with the player/agent before you have any idea of what you can get for Marner, and once you do that, the agent will 'leak' it around the league, and your step 2 will be nothing but lowball offers.
Treliving needs there to be no idea that he is not willing or wanting to resign Marner, and have GM's approach him, wherein Tre can ask if certain players would be on or off the table well before anyone knows his real intention is to deal him.
i.e. Buffalo calls because they really need to make the playoffs, so, you ask, if Power available (because I cant see Buffalo have Dahlin, Power and Byram ...Power straight up or you negotiate for Byram and Benson and then you would to talk to Ferris)
GM's can make hypotheticals to get a framework in place before they speak to the agent/player, as what happened with Markstrom, and Krug, you just need to hope the player is willing to waive, which Marner may not, but, if you PO the player and agent, you will lose him for nothing, and he still may have a career year, as he still needs a big $$ contract.

personally, I do not think the Leafs have any interest in trading Marner.

 

[ACC1224]

What's interesting is that people believe the last 3 games of a series is more important than the first 4 given that the last 3 are conditional based on the performance of the first 4.

All the games are important and the entire team and Coaching staff has underwhelmed.

 

[mydnyte]

People say Marner has all the power but he doesn’t. He just made a big mistake. He came out to the media and said how he doesn’t want leave, probably wants to retire a Leaf and are treated like Gods. The power is all ours.
Here’s your contract offer, it’s not 12+ million, it has a 10 team NTC and it’s under our conditions. If that’s not good, guess you don’t retire a Leaf.
Not that I would re-sign him, but the team has the power. You can walk, that’s all you can do.

the player always has the power, Sundin refused to waive, and said he wanted to retire a Leaf, then promptly left and signed elsewhere

 

[HamiltonNHL]

What's interesting is that people believe the last 3 games of a series is more important than the first 4 given that the last 3 are conditional based on the performance of the first 4.

they are more important.

your best players need to perform in key games.

@ACC1224 - do you think the Leafs may extend Marner ?

 

[Trapper]

the player always has the power, Sundin refused to waive, and said he wanted to retire a Leaf, then promptly left and signed elsewhere

That’s all he has though.
Play and leave. He doesn’t decide his linemates, ice time, deployment or even wear a letter as part of the leadership group.
If the Leafs don’t want to re-sign him, he gets to play out the year knowing he’s not part of the long term plan and walk. That’s all he has.

 

[mydnyte]

That’s all he has though.
Play and leave. He doesn’t decide his linemates, ice time, deployment or even wear a letter as part of the leadership group.
If the Leafs don’t want to re-sign him, he gets to play out the year knowing he’s not part of the long term plan and walk. That’s all he has.

and that does nothing for us, and he still gets to pick where he goes, and gets paid top dollar (more than we'd pay him for sure)

 

[Notsince67]

All the games are important and the entire team and Coaching staff has underwhelmed.

I never said they werent. I wasnt the one throwing up cherry picked stats of the playoffs. I was merely pointing out that players that only show up on game 5,6 & 7 arent the heroes of the playoffs because there might not have been a need to get to these games had everyone been clicking