Player Discussion Mitch Marner - On Hiatus

[Nineteen67]

I don't disagree with you that we need more out of Matthews but quite frankly he does show up in games 5 to 7

IMHO if he wasn't saddled with the dead weight that is Marner I think Matthews would have done more. He does play heavy, wins board battles, lays body; but when he makes the play Marner is just figure skating and turnsover the puck all the time in the o-zone.

If Matthews is always supposed to be a shooter it is easier to defend him; but when Matthews makes the play nobody on his line would take the shot and Marner would ruin any offensive momentum in the o-zone.

I'd like to see Matthews without Marner for extended period of time. He was pretty good in Gm 2 this season; then he got sick which sucks. And he is the one that set up the goal in Gm7 for Willy; and wasn't on ice for goal against even though he wasn't 100%.

I do agree that given Matthews' AAV, his output must be more and he must make his linemates better. But for that we must see Matthews without Marner. I think Domi-Matthews-Bert line was pretty good!

Has Matthews ever won anything worth mentioning?

 

[Menzinger]

If they pay it, it will reduce the return. As it stands, it is likely difficult to find a trade partner that:

1. Has assets to satisfy the Leafs in a trade
2. Is winning to extend Marner
3. Can fit in the cap hit
4. Marner agrees to waive to said team

Add playing $7m and it will reduce the field further IMO.

I don't think bonuses will reduce the return for good players. No team that's interested in Marner is going to walk away from a leaf ask over that amount imo

It anything getting a 90 point player for 8 mil real dollars will be an incentive than a constraint

 

[Arzak]

Inaugural Stanley Pup | tonight | NHL.com

Happy to see Mitch still playing !

 

[thewave]

Inaugural Stanley Pup | tonight | NHL.com

Happy to see Mitch still playing !

I hope doesn't lose an eye. They should really wear mitts.

 

[Punch Drunk Loov]

We had this kid jump from 800K to 10.9M. He has not lived up to his side of the bargain, it's over. Go enjoy head fakes and secondary assists on another team that doesn't care about making sacrifices. It's always excuses with this guy. I was in this thread praising him after game 6 because I thought he had a great game. But he just doesn't have that finishing ability like a Pasta, and he shouldn't be paid MORE than players he's below in skill, talent, heart, determination, ability, resilience.

 

[notDatsyuk]

I don't think bonuses will reduce the return for good players. No team that's interested in Marner is going to walk away from a leaf ask over that amount imo

It anything getting a 90 point player for 8 mil real dollars will be an incentive than a constraint

The incentive would be getting him for $700K rather than $8M, but that's only for the one season anyway, and it's only the cash amount. Cap is still $11M for that year, and cap and cash are whatever the extension calls for.

Some team willing to pay him around $100M isn't likely to be swayed by a difference of $7M.

 

[Havoc]

I understand where you are coming from but we gotta give Lily a try at #1PP unit IMO if we can't get a #1PP guy via UFA and/or trade (Marner)

Regular season: Lily 2nd after Mo in points production (total) based on ppg
View attachment 880063


In terms of PP points per 60 Lily also produced decently given that he was primarly on 2nd unit
View attachment 880064


I wonder how Lily would do if he was given full time #1PP unit duties. He was pretty good in teh short time when the PP was really HOT with Lily running the point. Its a very small sample but its still worth looking at IMO at a longer stretch if we can't get a stud #1 Dman via UFA/Trade

Valid. I'm just not sold on Liljegren being a core player. Full time PP1 QB lifts you into core player territory. I don't see a winner when I watch him play. I see a bandaid player who holds a spot until you can get someone better. The way he folds in the playoffs is especially sickening. I couldn't tell if Liljegren was interested in passing to his team mate, or if he was practicing how to skip rocks in water for the incoming long summer vacation his style of play was going to cause.

 

[Hoglund4MvP]

Wasting another year on a loser like Liljegren would make Treliving another loser GM like the previous ones. If it's not Rielly, the alternative currently is not on the roster. Sticking with Liljegren is the lazy way out.

You are not stanley cup ready if Liljegren is your pp1 quarter back and we have lost too much to sacrifice another year to give Liljegren a shot to prove himself.

What has Liljegren done for us to be given that importance. He's not more important than fixing our problems, he's let us down with low iq play after low iq player.


At least marner on other hand, we know he's conn smythe worthy if he has a good playoffs. players like liljegren, they're "good" might still just be average so he's not worth wasting another year on. Get rid of him.

 

[thewave]

We had this kid jump from 800K to 10.9M. He has not lived up to his side of the bargain, it's over. Go enjoy head fakes and secondary assists on another team that doesn't care about making sacrifices. It's always excuses with this guy. I was in this thread praising him after game 6 because I thought he had a great game. But he just doesn't have that finishing ability like a Pasta, and he shouldn't be paid MORE than players he's below in skill, talent, heart, determination, ability, resilience.

He is all about money. The Marners are using every angle to secure the most money and mitigate taxes. This isnt some passionate player that wants to win if he has to make sacrifices. He wants others to make sacrifices for him and to look good, win and make even more money.

Pretty much exactly as I read his personality off the hop. Just in interviews in Jr I disliked him, found him obnoxious and weasely.

Feels good calling a spade a spade but at the cost of my teams progress towards getting a cup kinda sucks.

 

[hullsy47]

I don't think bonuses will reduce the return for good players. No team that's interested in Marner is going to walk away from a leaf ask over that amount imo

It anything getting a 90 point player for 8 mil real dollars will be an incentive than a constraint

any 1 of anaheim chicago or columbus ,wont get a player with their first pick as good as marner
these 3 clubs wouldnt be doing their due dillegence to try and make a trade with the leafs at the draft
IMO chicago has to be in on this if indeed there is and momentum of a trade.
giving bedard prime time with marner would be electric for the fans .
hell even san jose would be crazy not to include celebrini in a trade

 

[HamiltonNHL]

Daily rep. Get outttaaaa heeeere

Thank you.

TRADE MARNER

Just getting in my daily rep, like this savage.

 

[ToneDog]

any 1 of anaheim chicago or columbus ,wont get a player with their first pick as good as marner
these 3 clubs wouldnt be doing their due dillegence to try and make a trade with the leafs at the draft
IMO chicago has to be in on this if indeed there is and momentum of a trade.
giving bedard prime time with marner would be electric for the fans .
hell even san jose would be crazy not to include celebrini in a trade

Trade for Marner or sign Guentzel for millions less or wait for a year and get another high pick?

 

[Arzak]

At least marner on other hand, we know he's conn smythe worthy if he has a good playoffs. players like liljegren, they're "good" might still just be average so he's not worth wasting another year on. Get rid of him.

I want what you are smoking.

WTF are you talking about? We know he's Conn Smythe worthy? You are killing me

We all know this loser can't play semi-decent playoff hockey. He must be one of the least likely hockey players on Earth to win it.

 

[Captain Crunch]

This is the only scenario that make any sense really . Why would he accept a deal now ? he gets paid out on July 1st all but 775k and most of the few teams that could absorb his opening night cap are bottom feeders performance wise and or cap floor teams money wise so he won't get a big number on a new deal from them . Come TDL there will be several major contenders playing the LTIR game with a legit shot at the cup looking for his elite skill set . Remember all the haters 3 and 4 years ago that insisted he had to be paired with Mathews for Mathews sake ? they are the same group most vocal here that he must be shipped out , it will be interesting to see what happens to Mathews numbers when he is gone ?
Welcome to the off-season in Toronto , this why we can't have nice things , lets gang up on the guy who leads the team in playoff PPG and is a whopping .005 PPG regular season behind Mathews .

He might lead the team in playoff PPG, but you might want to take a closer look at when he gets those points in the series. It has been proven that his scoring drops off significantly in games 5-7 of a playoff series. I want players who have proven that they can score in crunch time in the playoffs. Marner has proven that he is not one of those players.

 

[Gary Nylund]

He might lead the team in playoff PPG, but you might want to take a closer look at when he gets those points in the series. It has been proven that his scoring drops off significantly in games 5-7 of a playoff series. I want players who have proven that they can score in crunch time in the playoffs. Marner has proven that he is not one of those players.

When you're up 4-1 in the 3rd and you need someone to get an assist, Marner's your boy.

 

[Captain Crunch]

I do unless there is an offer no one can refuse. These things work out as a negotiation. Brinkmanship is always a losing proposition for all sides.

If that happens, and I don’t believe it will, then what Tre and Pelley said at the presser meant jackshit! But I believe they meant what they said, that the previous plan has not worked (6 years with this core has proven that), and major changes are needed, which will include not resigning Marner! Tre knows that a more balanced lineup is crucial, and by paying 4 forwards that much, this cannot be done.

When you're up 4-1 in the 3rd and you need someone to get an assist, Marner's your boy.

You get it!

 

[ACC1224]

He might lead the team in playoff PPG, but you might want to take a closer look at when he gets those points in the series. It has been proven that his scoring drops off significantly in games 5-7 of a playoff series. I want players who have proven that they can score in crunch time in the playoffs. Marner has proven that he is not one of those players.

Which proven players are you interested in?
Do they currently have any of these proven players?

 

[Dough72]

There is also a pic of him kissing a dog and his wife lifting him up and spinning him around in her wedding dress.

Good Lord this type of stuff is creepy. TRADE.

 

[57 Years No Cup]

Thank you.

TRADE MARNER

Just getting in my daily rep, like this savage.

 

[notdoneyet]

Has Matthews ever won anything worth mentioning?

Well he does score 69 goals in the regular season but we all know that regular season scoring and non playoff scoring only applies to marner.
None of matthews nylander marner or Tavares will ever lead us to a cup.
Not one of them has the intestinal fortitude to elevate their game to win a cup. They all every one of them bail when the going gets tough and while we single out marner the other three have done nothing to elevate their game in a seventh game.
Marner is not a goal scorer he is what he is a playmaker.
We have supposedly the best goal scorer in the world who can’t carry the team to a game seventh victory.

 

[57 Years No Cup]

Well he does score 69 goals in the regular season but we all know that regular season scoring and non playoff scoring only applies to marner.
None of matthews nylander marner or Tavares will ever lead us to a cup.
Not one of them has the intestinal fortitude to elevate their game to win a cup. They all every one of them bail when the going gets tough and while we single out marner the other three have done nothing to elevate their game in a seventh game.
Marner is not a goal scorer he is what he is a playmaker.
We have supposedly the best goal scorer in the world who can’t carry the team to a game seventh victory.

Sigh. The "singled out Marner" myth again. Look at the Matthews, Tavares, and Nylander threads.... or will that bust your bubble?

 

[Captain Crunch]

Which proven players are you interested in?

That’s the thing, most of these players aren’t available. Smart teams tend to keep them, but when they are available you need to have the cap space and/or the pieces required in order to get them.

My main point was that so much is made of all the playoff points Marner has, but how has that translated into playoff round wins? And yes, that is not all on Marner, but he is now the odd man out with Shanahan already having committed to Matthews and Nylander. Matthews is a legit #1 center, although he also hasn’t been able to be the difference maker in the playoffs, so it makes sense to retain him. As for Nylander, he has shown in the last few playoffs that he can be a difference maker.

Which proven players are you interested in?
Do they currently have any of these proven players?

Unfortunately, those proven players are rarely available as the smarter teams tend to hang onto them. And by proven playoff performers I mean those players who are willing to go into the dirty areas to get the puck, the players who will take the hit in order to make a play, who have that extra gear that's necessary in the playoffs, and who aren't afraid to engage in a scrum (but not to the point of taking an unnecessary penalty).

I believe that of our three, Matthews is the closest one to being that type of player (not counting the Stamkos encounter last playoffs), and Marner is the furthest. Bertuzzi and Domi are that type of player, but bvoth will probably be able to get more than we are willing to pay them, from another team. Both McCabe and Benoit are definitely that kind of player. Cowan may turn out to be that type as well. So we do have a few.

 

[PromisedLand]

Valid. I'm just not sold on Liljegren being a core player. Full time PP1 QB lifts you into core player territory. I don't see a winner when I watch him play. I see a bandaid player who holds a spot until you can get someone better. The way he folds in the playoffs is especially sickening. I couldn't tell if Liljegren was interested in passing to his team mate, or if he was practicing how to skip rocks in water for the incoming long summer vacation his style of play was going to cause.

Don’t disagree but Lily had all but one coach (i.e. Keefe) from AHL to NHL. He was drafted as an offensive D-Man. He was hardly given that opportunity to develop mistakes and all. Lily made one mistake and he was on the bench; meanwhile Sandin and Holl made a lot of mistakes but did t see their ice time diminish. I think Lily’s confidence was shot. But TBD of course

This is the last year for Lily at least for me. In the trajectory of things this is around the time Rielly broke out offensively. If Lily can’t do it this year then I will be with you 100%

 

[thewave]

Thank you.

TRADE MARNER

Just getting in my daily rep, like this savage.

Remember Snitch Marner ran himself out of town. Said Babsocks

 

[thewave]

Don’t disagree but Lily had all but one coach (i.e. Keefe) from AHL to NHL. He was drafted as an offensive D-Man. He was hardly given that opportunity to develop mistakes and all. Lily made one mistake and he was on the bench; meanwhile Sandin and Holl made a lot of mistakes but did t see their ice time diminish. I think Lily’s confidence was shot. But TBD of course

This is the last year for Lily at least for me. In the trajectory of things this is around the time Rielly broke out offensively. If Lily can’t do it this year then I will be with you 100%

I think with a good coach Lily is doing mighty fine right now. Keefe is a basketcase coach imho.

I would not trade Lily in a package with Marner unless it makes total sense.