Mitch Marner Offseason Continued

[Dekes For Days]

If "the team around them" is what made the difference, why are we paying half the cap to guys what don't?

They do, and they were both on their ELCs during what was being discussed anyway. Your question has nothing to do with my post.

 

[Dekes For Days]

And he Dekes around the question again! He can do this for Days folks.

I didn't deke around anything. Your question was based on a false premise that seemed to have entirely missed both the time period and the point of the discussion you were quoting, and I pointed that out. There is no actual answer to your question, because the question was designed to be inherently incorrect.

 

[Dreakmur]

I didn't deke around anything. Your question was based on a false premise that seemed to have entirely missed both the time period and the point of the discussion you were quoting, and I pointed that out. There is no actual answer to your question, because the question was designed to be inherently incorrect.

You can squirm around all you want, but it doesn’t change the truth.

 

[Notsince67]

You think he's going to Joe Thornton himself into the Hall? I suppose there is an outside chance of it.

Top 25 all time leaf point leader in over 100 years , top 14 career assists ...at only 24 years old and a career ppg+ player entering his prime. I'd guess there is more than an outside chance

 

[Gabriel426]

Top 25 all time leaf point leader in over 100 years , top 14 career assists ...at only 24 years old and a career ppg+ player entering his prime. I'd guess there is more than an outside chance

Agree with you, barring injury, I think there is a great chance Marner will be in the HOF.
Marner is a very good player, he is not some one season wonder. Having said that, he needs to do a lot more in the playoffs.

 

[keonsbitterness]

The team won more, but that wasn't the question. Your statement was making a claim about why they won, and illogically concluding that the individual who contributed less was the reason for winning more, instead of the obvious answer that the team around him was the difference.

Marner's first three series : 20 games, 5-12-17
Point's first three: 17 games, 7-9-16

Who contributed less?

 

[HamiltonNHL]

Prediction #6: Mitch Marner Will Have a Career Season in 2021-22

Stan notes that Mitch Marner’s a very smart player, with exceptional vision. He’s also a hard worker who’ll internalize the criticism he’s received during the past seasons and channel it into drive to make himself better. Stan believes he’ll play even better next season.

https://thehockeywriters.com/maple-leafs-eight-predictions-2021-22-season/

I hope Marner tipped this guy for this friendly prediction.

 

[Antropovsky]

Prediction #6: Mitch Marner Will Have a Career Season in 2021-22

Stan notes that Mitch Marner’s a very smart player, with exceptional vision. He’s also a hard worker who’ll internalize the criticism he’s received during the past seasons and channel it into drive to make himself better. Stan believes he’ll play even better next season.

https://thehockeywriters.com/maple-leafs-eight-predictions-2021-22-season/

I hope Marner tipped this guy for this friendly prediction.

..... uh huh Stan... did Marner channel the criticism from the year before this one into being a better player this year...? If so... then he will be older than Joe Thornton before he will be reasonably good out there.

 

[Arzak]

Prediction #6: Mitch Marner Will Have a Career Season in 2021-22

Stan notes that Mitch Marner’s a very smart player, with exceptional vision. He’s also a hard worker who’ll internalize the criticism he’s received during the past seasons and channel it into drive to make himself better. Stan believes he’ll play even better next season.

https://thehockeywriters.com/maple-leafs-eight-predictions-2021-22-season/

I hope Marner tipped this guy for this friendly prediction.

Not likely, you need to factor in playoffs are watched closely by all NHL players. Marner and non shot was exposed even more. Once D focuses on pass only his assists will decline.

 

[ShaneFalco]

Prediction #6: Mitch Marner Will Have a Career Season in 2021-22

Stan notes that Mitch Marner’s a very smart player, with exceptional vision. He’s also a hard worker who’ll internalize the criticism he’s received during the past seasons and channel it into drive to make himself better. Stan believes he’ll play even better next season.

https://thehockeywriters.com/maple-leafs-eight-predictions-2021-22-season/

I hope Marner tipped this guy for this friendly prediction.

Or he'll fold under the pressure of his contract as we've witnessed in the big games. He's awesome though in nothing games

 

[613Leafer]

Prediction #6: Mitch Marner Will Have a Career Season in 2021-22

Stan notes that Mitch Marner’s a very smart player, with exceptional vision. He’s also a hard worker who’ll internalize the criticism he’s received during the past seasons and channel it into drive to make himself better. Stan believes he’ll play even better next season.

https://thehockeywriters.com/maple-leafs-eight-predictions-2021-22-season/

I hope Marner tipped this guy for this friendly prediction.

If we don't win at absolute minimum one playoff round (likely need to win at minimum two), no one will care.

And if we lose in the playoffs, the stars will be blamed. If the stars disappear like this year, it's their fault. If the stars play well and we lose due to our depth players, it's still the stars contracts that are the reason our depth would suck.

 

[Dekes For Days]

Marner's first three series : 20 games

The discussion and your original statement was about the first 17 games of their playoff careers. You attributed the difference of those two series wins to the individual, based on nothing, and even though the individual contribution by that player was less.

 

[Gabriel426]

Prediction #6: Mitch Marner Will Have a Career Season in 2021-22

Stan notes that Mitch Marner’s a very smart player, with exceptional vision. He’s also a hard worker who’ll internalize the criticism he’s received during the past seasons and channel it into drive to make himself better. Stan believes he’ll play even better next season.

https://thehockeywriters.com/maple-leafs-eight-predictions-2021-22-season/

I hope Marner tipped this guy for this friendly prediction.

And he choked in playoffs AGAIN, lol.

It doesn't matter if he finished 1st in scoring or 61st in scoring. It depends in the playoffs.

 

[keonsbitterness]

The discussion and your original statement was about the first 17 games of their playoff careers. You attributed the difference of those two series wins to the individual, based on nothing, and even though the individual contribution by that player was less.

I'd say comparing series to series contributions is more logical. Stopping at 17 games also leaves out the elephant in the room that Marner was pointless in 2019 vs Boston in games 5-7.

 

[Gabriel426]

Marner hasnt been good in the playoffs for the past three seasons. Doesn't matter what he did in the past, he has not been performing lately.
Just like, we can't use Jumbo stats from 10 years ago and defend his play this past season.
I know there are some diehard Marner fans here but he just didn't perform the past few playoffs/playins. Stop justifying his plays with the coach didn't use him properly, or if only player X scores on those chances, or this or that.... He didn't play well and since he is a huge part of the team, he will get his share of criticisms. If anything, that should be a compliment in itself, b/c it means he is a big part in Leafs advancing or not.

 

[Stephen]

If you don't remember how conversations went, don't make false statements about those conversations and misrepresent people. What you probably remember me saying is that when discussing the quality of a player, surface results in small playoff samples do not take precedence over considerably larger samples that have much more situational similarity, and that remains true.

Nobody should be throwing away elite players because of emotional reactions to playoff wins and losses. That's the whole point. Tampa hadn't won anything, and Point hadn't shown anything at that point. It's a good thing they didn't take the route many here are suggesting.

You need context. And the sample is massively against your case.

Look at Tampa's playoff record during the course of the Yzerman regime. You'd realize they went to the conference finals in 2011, went to the Stanley Cup finals in 2015, and were in the conference finals again in 2016 and 2017. That's 9 playoff round victories leading up to the Columbus series, so they had won "something." There's no equivalence to the playoff failure that Toronto has experienced under the Shanaplan.

As far as Point vs Marner, Brayden Point also had a 16 point in 17 game rookie playoff debut in 2018. That's a 21 year old on an ELC punching well above his weight and proving big game abilities right away. It's what makes him special. The Columbus series was just a 4 game blip in a 50+ game resume that is sterling.

 

[Gabriel426]

This week they love you, next week they hate you, just make sure you get paid for both weeks.

Not sure did Connor McGregor really said that, but my friend sent me that meme.

 

[HamiltonNHL]

Marner makes more than Stamkos.

Dubas sucks

 

[hamzarocks]

Every player who is outperforming Marner in the playoffs has a strong shooting IQ, and is willing to go to the greasy areas.

Marner still likes holding onto the puck way to much and tries to control the play with it being on his stick. It is about time he realizes just looking internally, Nylander didn't score many goals where he held the puck for long. They were all being in a shooting area and capitalizing on the chance. He didn't try and wait out/deke out the defenders or look to bait the defense into thinking he will pass and then shoot.

Marner needs to come back a man next season, and leave the childish antics and play style behind. Time to grow up and show he's a mature prime superstar. Be more physical/heavy on the puck as Hyman won't be there to win battles for him or 34 anymore. He needs to be improving his wrist shot and one-timer to a decent level, with the time it takes for him to release the puck needing to improve.

If he can get harder to knock down when he has the puck and becomes a smarter shooter/positional shooter then I expect he can utilize his other great skills and talents to produce helping us win games.

He needs to change up the water dancing and trying to go east-west and looking to make predictable/covered passes.

Next year is a legacy-defining one for him. He either turns into a hero and delivers or he's going to be remembered worse than Kessel was when he got traded (who got unfair treatment as he produced come playoffs and was simply a bad defensive player)

 

[ToneDog]

You need context. And the sample is massively against your case.

Look at Tampa's playoff record during the course of the Yzerman regime. You'd realize they went to the conference finals in 2011, went to the Stanley Cup finals in 2015, and were in the conference finals again in 2016 and 2017. That's 9 playoff round victories leading up to the Columbus series, so they had won "something." There's no equivalence to the playoff failure that Toronto has experienced under the Shanaplan.

As far as Point vs Marner, Brayden Point also had a 16 point in 17 game rookie playoff debut in 2018. That's a 21 year old on an ELC punching well above his weight and proving big game abilities right away. It's what makes him special. The Columbus series was just a 4 game blip in a 50+ game resume that is sterling.

Bang you head against the wall a few hundred times. It will be less painful. How does one defend zero goals in his last 18 playoff games and zero PP goals in 2021? Cal f'n Clutterbuck scored his 4th of these playoffs tonight. How hard can it be?

 

[Dekes For Days]

You need context.

I've looked at quite a bit of context, including what you've left out.

Look at Tampa's playoff record during the course of the Yzerman regime. You'd realize they went to the conference finals in 2011, went to the Stanley Cup finals in 2015, and were in the conference finals again in 2016 and 2017.

Sounds like a whole lot of years of a competitive team not winning the cup. Leafs would be destroyed for that.

Brayden Point also had a 16 point in 17 game rookie playoff debut in 2018. That's a 21 year old on an ELC punching well above his weight and proving big game abilities right away. It's what makes him special.

It's already been pointed out that Marner had 17 points in his first 17 playoff games.

 

[Trapper]

I've looked at quite a bit of context, including what you've left out.

Sounds like a whole lot of years of a competitive team not winning the cup. Leafs would be destroyed for that.

It's already been pointed out that Marner had 17 points in his first 17 playoff games.

Marner has 5 goals in 32 games, 0 goals in the last 2 playoff series and has never scored a post season PP goal.
Don’t care what he does in the regular season, if this trend continues, can’t use him.
You need to score goals as a franchise paid winger. Not just regular season assists.

 

[Dreakmur]

It's already been pointed out that Marner had 17 points in his first 17 playoff games.

Always a lot easier to do with no pressure. Those 17 games were as an ELC contract, away from the primary checking match ups, on a team that wasn’t expected to win.

Now the pressure is on. These games matter. Now is when we actually need him to show up.

 

[Cleetus]

simply put Marner was a total disgrace when it mattered most, childish play, over the glass penalties scared to do the things you need to do, to win in the playoffs. not good enough...

 

[Jimmy Firecracker]

Top 25 all time leaf point leader in over 100 years , top 14 career assists ...at only 24 years old and a career ppg+ player entering his prime. I'd guess there is more than an outside chance

That says more about how garbage this franchise has been over the past 50 years than anything.