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Mitch Marner Offseason Continued

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keonsbitterness said:
If we're doing that direct comparison, for the record Point helped his team win two series in his first 17 playoff games.
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Series wins are team accomplishments.
socko said:
Did Kane play the perimeter, make junior moves, and have a muffin for a shot?
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That doesn't accurately describe Kane or Marner, though yes, Kane has improved quite a bit since his first 2 and a half years in the league.
Kane will be in HOF.
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Both Kane and Marner will be in the HOF, and Kane will be in there for things that happened after he signed his post-ELC contract.
 
socko said:
Did Kane play the perimeter, make junior moves, and have a muffin for a shot? I mean comparing Marner to Kane.... Have thee no shame? Kane will be in HOF. And yes it was obvious from the start he was going to be something special and not just a soft floater with a muffin.
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Marner will also be a hall of famer
 
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Dekes For Days said:
Series wins are team accomplishments.

That doesn't accurately describe Kane or Marner, though yes, Kane has improved quite a bit since his first 2 and a half years in the league.

Both Kane and Marner will be in the HOF, and Kane will be in there for things that happened after he signed his post-ELC contract.
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You think he's going to Joe Thornton himself into the Hall? I suppose there is an outside chance of it.
 
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keonsbitterness said:
That's a cop-out, and assumes that we should never assign credit/blame to players for series wins/losses, particularly star players as they have the most influence.
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How exactly did Point's 16 points in 17 games help his team win more than Marner's 17 points in 17 games?
 
Get rid of him and his father. Parents who live vicariously through their children end up ruining the kids. Just ask Britney. He's left a bad taste in too many Leaf fans that poor Mitch may not be able to overcome. Time to move on.
 
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Dekes For Days said:
But that's not actually based on anything, and contradicts direct quotes from the player himself and the people surrounding him, that are way more informed on the matter. You can see on the ice, and off the ice - he cares a lot.

That's just not true at all. I understand concerns around conversion and finishing (which have been wildly exaggerated in this thread), but he was far from invisible. He was putting in a lot of effort and generated a lot of chances and opportunities.
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I agree that the effort was there but why do you think he’s had 3 straight bad playoff performances? I think in the first two playoff series expectations were low but since then the pressure has been getting to him, he’s feeling the weight of the fans running out of patience for playoff success and he’s gripping his stick too tight. He looked like he was scared to make a mistake out there.
 
keonsbitterness said:
The answer is in your question: they won more games.
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That's not an answer. The team won more games. You're trying to attribute that team result to an individual, but you're refusing to explain how you concluded that a worse performance by an individual resulted in more success for their team, as a result of that particular individual and not the rest of the team.
Dreakmur said:
When did Marner put up 17 points in 17 playoff games?
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His first 17 playoff games - the specific sample that the other individual referenced.
 
Dekes For Days said:
That's not an answer. The team won more games. You're trying to attribute that team result to an individual, but you're refusing to explain how you concluded that a worse performance by an individual resulted in more success for their team, as a result of that particular individual and not the rest of the team.
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Because as an individual on that team, he and they actually did win more. Winning. Trumps. All.

You're looking for a complex answer that doesn't exist.
 
Marner is hurt by the big pressure on him, from himself/his dad(!?) or the contract or whatever. And he was hurting from it in the playoffs imo. Lacking confidece. His face just looked empty any time he was zoomed in. And the way he reacted to that penalty, it looked like Nylander was comforting him almost.. Great player but he has to grow as a person, the words he kept repeeting himself. Hope he does because I dont think he will be traded.
 
It is funny how some still believe that Marner is a better player than Point and keep comparing Marner to Kane.

Point is a much better player than Marner at this point of their careers. Not saying Marner is a bad player but Point is just better. It is the same as saying McDavid is a better player than Drai, does that make Drai sucks.

As for Kane. Kane is Kane b/c he won Cups. Marner had not done anything in playoffs yet. Same with McDavid and Gretzky or Mario or Sid, McDavid won nothing in playoffs.
 
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Gabriel426 said:
It is funny how some still believe that Marner is a better player than Point and keep comparing Marner to Kane.

Point is a much better player than Marner at this point of their careers. Not saying Marner is a bad player but Point is just better. It is the same as saying McDavid is a better player than Drai, does that make Drai sucks.

As for Kane. Kane is Kane b/c he won Cups. Marner had not done anything in playoffs yet. Same with McDavid and Gretzky or Mario or Sid, McDavid won nothing in playoffs.
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But, but, but Marner was top 5 in regular season points while Point wasn't anywhere close. :sarcasm:
 
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Farsailor said:
Marner is hurt by the big pressure on him, from himself/his dad(!?) or the contract or whatever. And he was hurting from it in the playoffs imo. Lacking confidece. His face just looked empty any time he was zoomed in. And the way he reacted to that penalty, it looked like Nylander was comforting him almost.. Great player but he has to grow as a person, the words he kept repeeting himself. Hope he does because I dont think he will be traded.
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None of them will get traded with Dubas in charge. Dubas is clearly emotionally attached to them. The one thing Shanahan got right in his year end presser is professional sports is a results based business. I think the 2 most likely outcomes of next year are miss the playoffs or lose in the 1st round. They better hope I'm wrong.
 
supermann_98 said:
But, but, but Marner was top 5 in regular season points while Point wasn't anywhere close. :sarcasm:
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But Point is top 5 is playoff points, lol. Actually, I have not check playoff individual points leader b/c I think winning the Cup is more important.
 
Will people leave the Leafs forum when and if Marner gets traded to another team. Kind of like what TWS did except, he left b.c Leafs signed JT
 
Marner put more effort into getting every penny possible from the Leafs than he did in the playoffs what an absolute joke of a player. Selfish, soft, no effort. Chokes under pressure. $11M winger.
 
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keonsbitterness said:
Because as an individual on that team, he and they actually did win more.
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The team won more, but that wasn't the question. Your statement was making a claim about why they won, and illogically concluding that the individual who contributed less was the reason for winning more, instead of the obvious answer that the team around him was the difference.
 
I don't know how you pull fans back into engagement with this core again. I guess we can tinker around them, but do they honestly think we can win like that?

There are so many good players making half this salary, it's beyond ridiculous
 
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Dekes For Days said:
The team won more, but that wasn't the question. Your statement was making a claim about why they won, and illogically concluding that the individual who contributed less was the reason for winning more, instead of the obvious answer that the team around him was the difference.
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If "the team around them" is what made the difference, why are we paying half the cap to guys what don't?
 
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