Mitch Marner Offseason Continued

[Racer88]

Now that you mention it, it's quite the paradox that someone with the moniker Notsince67 doesn't seem to be the least bit bothered by being a perennial playoff loser.

In all fairness he probably is bothered. He just seems to process it in a more calm and rational manner.

 

[Gary Nylund]

In all fairness he probably is bothered. He just seems to process it in a more calm and rational manner.

If you say so. I find his excuses for Marner to be anything but rational myself.

 

[Riellyfan04]

everyday I log into HF and hope I see a green highlighted text that says confirmed with link "Marner has been traded" and my disappointment continues

It won't happen and hope u take the green light and leave this fan base. We dont need ppl like u here.

 

[ACC1224]

If you say so. I find his excuses for Marner to be anything but rational myself.

Just a different view, IMO. Certainly sounder than the brain dead, ‘he’s scared’ , ‘he doesn’t care’ or the dumbest of all ‘he had a tee time booked’.

 

[Dekes For Days]

@Dekes For Days Is Marner still a better playoff performer than Point???

Not sure what comment of mine you're even referring to - Point has done quite well in the playoffs since the disaster that was 2019. That said, the fact that you're quoting a Steve Simmons tweet cherry-picking playoff goals and discussing contracts while ignoring term and situation, to make whatever point you think you have, pretty much says it all.

 

[Gary Nylund]

Just a different view, IMO. Certainly sounder than the brain dead, ‘he’s scared’ , ‘he doesn’t care’ or the dumbest of all ‘he had a tee time booked’.

If someone says something dumb, the fact that someone else has said something even dumber doesn't make what he said any less dumb.

 

[Trapper]

They’ll have enough trouble making the playoffs next year. Trading Marner and his 100 points will only make it more difficult.

When Crosby gets injured Malkin steps up.
They’ve played the season without Letang.

No Stamkos, no problem. No Kucherov, make the playoffs.

If this team can’t make the playoffs with just 3 of the 4, then it doesn’t matter. They aren’t going anywhere anyway until a new GM comes in and rebuilds.

I’m going to give you 2 top 10 centers, William Nylander, the current top 4 D and 11 million extra in cap. What do you mean they can’t make the playoffs? Does this not sound suspicious to anyone?

 

[Stephen]

Not sure what comment of mine you're even referring to - Point has done quite well in the playoffs since the disaster that was 2019. That said, the fact that you're quoting a Steve Simmons tweet cherry-picking playoff goals and discussing contracts while ignoring term and situation, to make whatever point you think you have, pretty much says it all.

Brayden Point has 32 playoff goals and 62 playoff points in 57 career games. To put that into context for you:

-That works out to a PPG of 1.12, which averages out to 91 points over 82 games.
-62 points in the playoffs is more than Matthews (24) and Marner (25) combined.
-62 points in the playoffs is more than Tavares (30) and Nylander (23) combined.
-He averages 0.56 GPG which averages 46 goals every 82 games.
-Of his 32 goals, 5 are game winners. Mitch Marner has 5 career playoff goals (for context).
-Again, you're talking about a career playoff goals difference of 32 and 5.
-Point has 19 more playoff goals than the generational goal scorer (Matthews).
-He has a Stanley Cup win.

Maybe there are just better players out there playing on better teams?

 

[Dekes For Days]

Brayden Point has 32 playoff goals and 62 playoff points in 57 career games.

Not sure what this, or anything else you wrote, has to do with anything I said. I already said Point has done quite well in his 2020/2021 playoffs, though many of your bullet points are very misleading. Good thing Tampa didn't throw Point away after 2019, like many here are suggesting for Marner.

 

[Mess]

Yeah but the brain trust around here would say that making the playoffs isnt important as long as you play well in them.

I believe Maple Leafs brain trust believes that as long as you make the playoffs "anything can happen".

By paying out these high salaries they feel they're getting a competitive edge on skill in the regular season, when the game is more wide open and skill wins out, and that buys $$ them a playoffs spot.

Leaf players do pile up a lot of regular season points and are among the top offensive teams, built for regular season success one could even go as far as saying. So they feel they're getting their money's worth even with 3 X $11 mil players to build around.

The minute this Leafs brain trust fails to make the playoffs they're all done and they know it. Now that they're at the end of their ropes because of past playoff failure, it also imperative they start showing playoff results when the game changes or they're also done.

So hedging your bets you cut your job self preservation ability into half as long as you keep producing regular season results that earns a playoff spot. Then cross your fingers and believe anything can happen.

 

[Atomos2]

I never thought Marner was worth 10.9 mil a year but in fairness he is a way better player than this thread is giving him credit for.

Then he should earn it, because playoffs will be what he’s judged on from here on out. And he earned that by his poor performance against the habs.

 

[bodechek]

Marner is slightly taller than the Habs' Brendan Gallagher, but Marner will only play the parameter because he is too afraid to go into traffic in the middle of the ice. He is not willing to change his play, but willing to change his pay (just because he believes he is on par with Matthews)

 

[ACC1224]

If someone says something dumb, the fact that someone else has said something even dumber doesn't make what he said any less dumb.

Agreed. I must have been lucky enough to have missed some of the dumb.

 

[Throw More Waffles]

Not sure what this, or anything else you wrote, has to do with anything I said. I already said Point has done quite well in his 2020/2021 playoffs, though many of your bullet points are very misleading. Good thing Tampa didn't throw Point away after 2019, like many here are suggesting for Marner.

If Point was just as bad again in 2020, and Tampa lost in the first round again, they likely would have. And it would be the smart thing to do.

 

[Dekes For Days]

If Point was just as bad again in 2020, and Tampa lost in the first round again, they likely would have.

No, they wouldn't have, because that would be a stupid, emotionally-based move that solves nothing.

 

[justashadowof]

If Matthews scores at the rate he scored in the regular season, the Leafs win that 1st round series against Montreal.

 

[Throw More Waffles]

No, they wouldn't have, because that would be a stupid, emotionally-based move that solves nothing.

If his caphit was (lol) 11 million, they most certainly would.

 

[Dekes For Days]

If his caphit was (lol) 11 million, they most certainly would.

Not a chance.

 

[socko]

If his caphit was (lol) 11 million, they most certainly would.

Emotionally based moves are when you become attached to players and factor in things like friendship, all of which a good GM would not do. Results are all that matter. And at this point for Toronto, that means results in the playoffs. You should be willing to trade the best friend you ever had for some jerk that is going to win you the Cup.

 

[Mess]

My boy Matty Barzal, whom I wanted my Leafs to draft instead of Marner on draft day, as best player available is simply a bigger, stronger, better skating, faster and more physical version of Mitch.

The fact that he makes only $7 mil AAV which is Nylander money/cap, and his 5 goals in his last 6 playoff games are as many as Marner has his entire 5 year playoff career to date only solidifies the point.

Besides since centres have more value then wingers, particularly small, soft, perimeter wingers not built to playoff style hockey, it should have been an easy choice.

Think of where our Leafs would be today had they drafted better and taken Barzal (the Calder trophy winner) instead, then combined him with Matthews (the Calder winner) the following year, and having Kadri, there as your top 3 centres right there.

No need to go and get Tavares at $11 mil and no need to be paying Marner $11 mil as neither of those players would be Leafs and Toronto would have $22 mil combined invested in $7 mil Barzal and $15 mil in free cap space to building around those 3 C + Nylander.

Even if you give Matthews his $11.5 mil X 8 years based off McDavid's $12.5 mil X 8 as a comparable, with Barzal and Nylander at $7 mil and Kadri at $4.5 mil think how vastly different Leafs top 4 (without any additions) salary structure would be today as opposed to 4 forwards making $40 mil and 1/2 your cap.

Hyman ($5 mil) --------- Matthews -------------- XXXX (Taylor Hall UFA $8 mil?)
Konecny ($5.5 mil) ---- Barzal ($7 mil) --------- Nylander
JVR ($6 mil) ------------- Kadri --------------------- C. Brown

 

[SeaOfBlue]

My boy Matty Barzal, whom I wanted my Leafs to draft instead of Marner on draft day, as best player available is simply a bigger, stronger, better skating, faster and more physical version of Mitch.

The fact that makes only $7 mil AAV which is Nylander money/cap, and his 5 goals in his last 6 playoff games are as many as Marner has his entire 5 year playoff career to date only solidifies the point.

Besides since centres have more value then wingers, particularly small, soft, perimeter wingers not built to playoff style hockey, it should have been an easy choice.

Think of where our Leafs would be today had they drafted better and taken Barzal (the Calder trophy winner) instead, then combined him with Matthews (the Calder winner) the following year, and having Kadri, there as your top 3 centres right there.

No need to go and get Tavares at $11 mil and no need to be paying Marner $11 mil as neither of those players would be Leafs and Toronto would have $22 mil combined invested in $7 mil Barzal and $15 mil in free cap space to building around those 3 C + Nylander.

Even if you give Matthews his $11.5 mil X 8 years based off McDavid's $12.5 mil X 8 as a comparable, with Barzal and Nylander at $7 mil and Kadri at $4.5 mil think how vastly different Leafs top 4 (without any additions) salary structure would be today as opposed to 4 forwards making $40 mil and 1/2 your cap.

Key context you are forgetting is that Barzal is on a bridge deal and Marner is not. Heavily drops his AAV but there are major consequences that the Islanders will have to face at the end of it. We will not have to face the same consequences with Marner.

 

[kevsh]

Contracts aside. Point is a better player than Marner.
Even if they are paid the same, it is still a fact that Point knows how to play in the playoffs

To be clear, I wasn't making any suggestion that Marner is as good as Point or is still good value for his contract, just that judging Marner vs. Point's contract is not an apples-to-apples comparison.

 

[ToneDog]

Key context you are forgetting is that Barzal is on a bridge deal and Marner is not. Heavily drops his AAV but there are major consequences that the Islanders will have to face at the end of it. We will not have to face the same consequences with Marner.

We are facing the consequences now with the Marner deal. Had they bridged him do you really think he gets as good or better deal than he has now? Absolutely 100% no way.

 

[ToneDog]

If Point was just as bad again in 2020, and Tampa lost in the first round again, they likely would have. And it would be the smart thing to do.

So many people using Tampa's loss to CBJ are forgetting that they were missing Kutcherov (suspension) and Hedman (injury).

 

[socko]

We are facing the consequences now with the Marner deal. Had they bridged him do you really think he gets as good or better deal than he has now? Absolutely 100% no way.

My offer would still be the same: 7 x $8. If I decide to completely cave then maybe I go up to 7 x $8.5. Or perhaps I cave by knocking a year or even two off, but the money is no higher than $8.5. And he's getting traded as soon as I get an offer I like, which might be today and might be a year from now, I would be in no rush.