Mitch Marner Offseason Continued

[JT AM da real deal]

If Stumpy is Mitchell Stephens, than u are in correct. Stephens was as explosive as it gets at minor midget level. Dylan Strome shouldnt be in this convo, a below average skater his whole life and continues to be. Mitch didnt have any linemates on Don Mills, he had Dunda i recall the big boy, Mitch dominated with hockey sense. I under estimated Marner's hockey sense until I saw him with St Mikes Buzzers.

Stumpy was blowing away Mitch still at BTNL 2 summers ago .. nothing has changed .. Mitch has great creativity and sense and always had it from time he was 4 .. my point was there are many many many 96 and 97 players who blew away Mitch in skating speed technique department (someone posted it was only McJesus and Barzal) .. sh*t even Dermy beats him easy in races

 

[nuck]

One of the most talented wingers we've had in a very long time. Sadly, at 10.9M it's hard to see us winning a cup for what he brings. That kind of pay means you don't need several years to figure out your confidence or how to win in the playoffs. That's proven winner cash. We took a gamble and lost and I really hope we move on.

They need to move on from whomever made the decision for skinny little Mitch to lead the whole league in regular season ice time. And the pk time WTF? Top heavy is a KD fantasy to me but however you construct a lineup, you need to give your players the best chance to succeed. Only one of the top 20 TOI forwards in the playoffs is still playing and that is Ranta, 16th at 21:22. He was 19:55 in the regular season and is also 6'4" and 215. Huge regular season minutes are the hallmark of clubs with no depth.

I posted earlier about Pat Kane only getting heavy regular season minutes in the years the Hawks never did anything in the playoffs, but they are playing the crap out of him now as the Hawks have no depth. A high of 20:03 playing on a contending Chicago team because that's how a 170lb player should be used. Its not complicated. When you wear a player down to below 165lbs and then crank his minutes UP in a physical 7 games series, is him losing a half a step actually unexpected?

If you have a "big 4" you play the four of them right? 30 year old JT doesn't need to be load managed but he was 69th in TOI for forwards. Willie was 141st?? I don't want who ever made these ice time decisions to go "Oh I see, that makes sense, we'll adjust" because that doesn't mean their other decision making is good, they just took care of one elephant in the room. They need to be replaced.

Big 4 was a gamble but assuming that doesn't change, how they are used needs to, or we will see similar results every year.

 

[Cams]

Marner interviews are cringe...sounds very inexperienced, says all the wrong things. Sounds like a kid trying to sound like a veteran.

One of my favorites:

Siegal: "What it's like trying to manage the pressure to produce as the series move along there..is it kind of alot."

Mitch: " I think Austin and I....and the other guys.. come playoffs you wanna be the guy to lead the team out of a series..."

First he talks about himself and Matthews...then includes the "other guys" ...then talks about wanting to individually be the guy to lead a team. Guess he hasn't heard the phrase "there is no I in team". Dubas sure messed up the team first identity Lou worked hard to implement.

I think you are misinterpreting what he is saying (possibly intentionally considering your last sentence). Every star play, heck even the non-stars on every team wants to be "the guy" to score the big goal, the series winner, etc., especially when the question was asked to him...he is just answering the question, and Matthews is his linemate, and the 2 players who have the most pressure on them, and justly so.

 

[VanW27]

They need to move on from whomever made the decision for skinny little Mitch to lead the whole league in regular season ice time. And the pk time WTF? Top heavy is a KD fantasy to me but however you construct a lineup, you need to give your players the best chance to succeed. Only one of the top 20 TOI forwards in the playoffs is still playing and that is Ranta, 16th at 21:22. He was 19:55 in the regular season and is also 6'4" and 215. Huge regular season minutes are the hallmark of clubs with no depth.

I posted earlier about Pat Kane only getting heavy regular season minutes in the years the Hawks never did anything in the playoffs, but they are playing the crap out of him now as the Hawks have no depth. A high of 20:03 playing on a contending Chicago team because that's how a 170lb player should be used. Its not complicated. When you wear a player down to below 165lbs and then crank his minutes UP in a physical 7 games series, is him losing a half a step actually unexpected?

If you have a "big 4" you play the four of them right? 30 year old JT doesn't need to be load managed but he was 69th in TOI for forwards. Willie was 141st?? I don't want who ever made these ice time decisions to go "Oh I see, that makes sense, we'll adjust" because that doesn't mean their other decision making is good, they just took care of one elephant in the room. They need to be replaced.

Big 4 was a gamble but assuming that doesn't change, how they are used needs to, or we will see similar results every year.

Absolutely, a big part of it is PK time as well and those are hard minutes. We filled our depth with has been or never were scorers (Thornton, Simmonds, Petan, Vesey, Boyd, Galchenyuk, Spezza - sorry to include you with these plugs Spezz) and had little choice but to play Marner big PK minutes.

Add some depth players that can actually PK, hell even guys who aren't PP specialists and complete defensive liabilities 5 on 5 would be start.

 

[Brobust]

Off the top of my head, here are the guys who play matchup minutes, play all situations, and put up a ton of points.

• Aleksander Barkov
• Brayden Point
• Mark Stone
• Mitch Marner

Go to the Lightning, Knights, and Panthers boards and ask what they think is a fair trade return for those players. Set that as a standard for Mitch Marner.

 

[Cams]

Stumpy was blowing away Mitch still at BTNL 2 summers ago .. nothing has changed .. Mitch has great creativity and sense and always had it from time he was 4 .. my point was there are many many many 96 and 97 players who blew away Mitch in skating speed technique department (someone posted it was only McJesus and Barzal) .. sh*t even Dermy beats him easy in races

Also, some athletes, and Marner may be one of them, just will no be able to get faster, or have elite edge work, or whatever aspect of their game. Some things, like vision/hockey sense, or in McDavid's case - speed, are just something they are born with, and can't be taught no matter what. Be it body type, muscle structure, whatever. I am pretty sure McDavid/Barzal have not been taught to skate like they do, it's just natural. Tweaked.....sure, but not everyone is the same, and it's not as black/white as some people think.

 

[Trapper]

Off the top of my head, here are the guys who play matchup minutes, play all situations, and put up a ton of points.

• Aleksander Barkov
• Brayden Point
• Mark Stone
• Mitch Marner

Go to the Lightning, Knights, and Panthers boards and ask what they think is a fair trade return for those players. Set that as a standard for Mitch Marner.

Well Mark Stone was already traded.

 

[Brobust]

Well Mark Stone was already traded.

Which is probably one of the worst moves Ottawa made, considering the fact that not player that is part of their rebuild will reach the level of Mark Stone.

 

[nuck]

Also, some athletes, and Marner may be one of them, just will no be able to get faster, or have elite edge work, or whatever aspect of their game. Some things, like vision/hockey sense, or in McDavid's case - speed, are just something they are born with, and can't be taught no matter what. Be it body type, muscle structure, whatever. I am pretty sure McDavid/Barzal have not been taught to skate like they do, it's just natural. Tweaked.....sure, but not everyone is the same, and it's not as black/white as some people think.

We don't actually know if Mitch has ever made a concerted effort to improve his skating do we? I do think he has mentioned wanting to get a bit stronger. When you have the vision and the passing skills he has, maybe you don't really worry about pushing the physical package to its limits. Its the other side of the coin from guys who have to push themselves every year to finally get over the threshold to be NHLers in their early 20s. To me its not a question of if he can be a great skater, but if he can be a better skating Marner, and if so, does he have the interest in pushing himself? He might be able to tweak things as you say, and if he gets a half a step faster it could be a game changer. It doesn't seem like he is too interested in that though. At 24 I think what you see is all you are getting.

 

[JT AM da real deal]

Also, some athletes, and Marner may be one of them, just will no be able to get faster, or have elite edge work, or whatever aspect of their game. Some things, like vision/hockey sense, or in McDavid's case - speed, are just something they are born with, and can't be taught no matter what. Be it body type, muscle structure, whatever. I am pretty sure McDavid/Barzal have not been taught to skate like they do, it's just natural. Tweaked.....sure, but not everyone is the same, and it's not as black/white as some people think.

Yes that was always da line of thinking but there have been a bunch of manufactured players in recent times .. I remember one parent who told me you will see this is gonna happen more and more and I thought it was a little BS .. but then we see Zach and prime example of a kid who through $$$, time, effort and skating instruction becomes a force .. 1st time I saw Barzal at brick i could not believe it quite frankly .. it was similar to 1st time I saw McJesus at Chesswood where it was jaw dropping what he was doing to kids a year older .. you are right those 2 have exceptional speed and they both can hit another gear with puck on their stick .. it still shocks me

 

[Cams]

Yes that was always da line of thinking but there have been a bunch of manufactured players in recent times .. I remember one parent who told me you will see this is gonna happen more and more and I thought it was a little BS .. but then we see Zach and prime example of a kid who through $$$, time, effort and skating instruction becomes a force .. 1st time I saw Barzal at brick i could not believe it quite frankly .. it was similar to 1st time I saw McJesus at Chesswood where it was jaw dropping what he was doing to kids a year older .. you are right those 2 have exceptional speed and they both can hit another gear with puck on their stick .. it still shocks me

I have a pretty good feeling that McDavid's skating is probably 98% natural ability, and that is just mind blowing.

I think you/we have discussed this in a different thread, but it's sad almost that hockey (getting to the highest levels (all ages)) is becoming a game where only those with deep pockets can get to the top. With all the clinics/summer camps/registration/travel fees/etc. the costs add up quickly. I know basic travel down here (Windsor area) was minimum $3000.00/season, and that was only A, nothing like AAA Sun County or whatever other regions. You were pretty much committed to also buy jersey bag, team equipment bag, plus you want your kid to have a team track suit, etc.

 

[ShaneFalco]

Off the top of my head, here are the guys who play matchup minutes, play all situations, and put up a ton of points.

• Aleksander Barkov
• Brayden Point
• Mark Stone
• Mitch Marner

Go to the Lightning, Knights, and Panthers boards and ask what they think is a fair trade return for those players. Set that as a standard for Mitch Marner.

Regular season points for Mitch that is
And ZERO power play goals all season. Plays all situations doesn't mean he's a good at it.

 

[Throw More Waffles]

Off the top of my head, here are the guys who play matchup minutes, play all situations, and put up a ton of points.

• Aleksander Barkov
• Brayden Point
• Mark Stone
• Mitch Marner

Go to the Lightning, Knights, and Panthers boards and ask what they think is a fair trade return for those players. Set that as a standard for Mitch Marner.

Those players aren't dramatically and unprecedentedly overpaid.

 

[Brobust]

Those players aren't dramatically and unprecedentedly overpaid.

Barkov had 36 points the year he signed the contract. Point signed a bridge deal giving up money for future leverage. Stone gets $9.5M in Vegas with less taxes.

Also, they're all worth at least $10.5M.

 

[Throw More Waffles]

Barkov had 36 points the year he signed the contract.

That's how it works? Matthews was a career high 69 point player when he signed his contract. I'm not sure if any other 69 career high point players make 11.6x5...

Point signed a bridge deal giving up money for future leverage.

Marner on a bridge deal sounds AMAZING right now. But he was asking for (lol) 9 mil x 3. Which is literally psychotic.

Stone gets $9.5M in Vegas with less taxes.

Stone signed a ufa contract. I'm bewildered that a ufa contract is being used to rationalize unprecedented dramatic overpayments for our greedy selfish entitled core players by our weakling and pathetic gm.

 

[NMacrules]

He clearly played scared. He was a coward. No effort. On a positive note, another GM would pay dearly for a guy with regular season skills like he has.

 

[koyvoo]

He clearly played scared. He was a coward. No effort. On a positive note, another GM would pay dearly for a guy with regular season skills like he has.

Yes, now let’s see which GM exactly who will prove themselves as clueless as ours.

 

[kevsh]

So Simmons weighs in.



Yes, we know Marner got overpaid and has not delivered when it counts but purely in fairness when comparing these deals it should be noted that:

a) Point's was a bridge deal and bridges are typically for a lesser AAV than long-term deals, often greatly so. And,
b) There is no income tax in Florida, which happens to be the biggest selling point (no pun intended) to players outside of proximity to live gator tours.

 

[Gabriel426]

So Simmons weighs in.



Yes, we know Marner got overpaid and has not delivered when it counts but purely in fairness when comparing these deals it should be noted that:

a) Point's was a bridge deal and bridges are typically for a lesser AAV than long-term deals, often greatly so. And,
b) There is no income tax in Florida, which happens to be the biggest selling point (no pun intended) to players outside of proximity to live gator tours.

Contracts aside. Point is a better player than Marner.
Even if they are paid the same, it is still a fact that Point knows how to play in the playoffs

 

[saffronleaf]

Off the top of my head, here are the guys who play matchup minutes, play all situations, and put up a ton of points.

• Aleksander Barkov
• Brayden Point
• Mark Stone
• Mitch Marner

Go to the Lightning, Knights, and Panthers boards and ask what they think is a fair trade return for those players. Set that as a standard for Mitch Marner.

Point and Stone are proven playoffs performers. Marner is a proven playoffs loser.

 

[usernamezrhardtodo]

Yes, now let’s see which GM exactly who will prove themselves as clueless as ours.

Sadly Chiarelli is not employed as a GM any longer...sadly....

 

[Superstar]

So Simmons weighs in.



Yes, we know Marner got overpaid and has not delivered when it counts but purely in fairness when comparing these deals it should be noted that:

a) Point's was a bridge deal and bridges are typically for a lesser AAV than long-term deals, often greatly so. And,
b) There is no income tax in Florida, which happens to be the biggest selling point (no pun intended) to players outside of proximity to live gator tours.

Marner was asking for $9 million on a bridge deal...what kind of madness was that? Even if Point signs a new contract after his bridge deal is up, I'm quite confident that his AAV will be around what Marner's AAV is right now and he'll deserve it 100%, but I wouldn't be surprised if Point takes less.

Marner was paid and is being paid huge signing bonuses upfront...a huge chuck of his contract will be paid out when he gets paid his next signing bonus this upcoming July....signing bonuses are taxed more favourably.

 

[Antropovsky]

I think you are misinterpreting what he is saying (possibly intentionally considering your last sentence). Every star play, heck even the non-stars on every team wants to be "the guy" to score the big goal, the series winner, etc., especially when the question was asked to him...he is just answering the question, and Matthews is his linemate, and the 2 players who have the most pressure on them, and justly so.

Im misinterpreting?? When did Marner say be the guy to score "the big goal" or series winner?

You should watch the presser before you start twisting his words to your agenda.

He says "auston and I...and the other guys, you want to be the guy to go to...especially come playoffs..guy who can lead the team out of a series..we had multiple looks every single game..seems like it's a thing just not going in so".

Yes I don't like this statement... comes off selfish and egotistical. Personally i don't want to watch a bunch of guys running around trying to be the guy or hero .... I want to see team trying win together.

 

[Stephen]

Im misinterpreting?? When did Marner say be the guy to score "the big goal" or series winner?

You should watch the presser before you start twisting his words to your agenda.

He says "auston and I...and the other guys, you want to be the guy to go to...especially come playoffs..guy who can lead the team out of a series..we had multiple looks every single game..seems like it's a thing just not going in so".

Yes I don't like this statement... comes off selfish and egotistical. Personally i don't want to watch a bunch of guys running around trying to be the guy or hero .... I want to see team trying win together.

Marner normally doesn't come across that well in the media anyway, so probably not worth the over analysis.

 

[mikeyz]

So Simmons weighs in.



Yes, we know Marner got overpaid and has not delivered when it counts but purely in fairness when comparing these deals it should be noted that:

a) Point's was a bridge deal and bridges are typically for a lesser AAV than long-term deals, often greatly so. And,
b) There is no income tax in Florida, which happens to be the biggest selling point (no pun intended) to players outside of proximity to live gator tours.

Simmons maybe a total douche but he's not wrong.