Miscellaneous NHL Discussion LXXXVI: 86 Proof

[Ghosts Beer]

The thing is this team is directionless. They have no plan. They have no idea what they are doing.
One of 2 things needed to happen as I see it

1. You sign a JG and try to build around Couterier and others. Not the direction I would take.
2. Sell off everything and start from the bottom. Rebuild.

They did neither. He made moves that are head scratching when seeing they have no plan.

Scott sits back and allows this GM to do basically what the previous GM did. Sit on the fence with no plan and hope for the best.

I get your point. I just disagree with the all-or-nothing approach, disagree that it's binary -- that you have to either sign Gaudreau, or sell off everything and be a doormat for an indefinite number of seasons.

They're a young team. I don't think you want an even younger team where the players lose year after year, having the stench, habits, and effects of being a loser become ingrained.

They are still in the entertainment business first-and-foremost. As someone who watches virtually every game, I don't want to invest years in watching a doormat, placing all hopes in the draft.

I don't think they are that bad of a team. I think they'll have an over .500 points percentage this season. Have some young breakouts, hopefully. And they can use this season to determine which players they need to move on from. And they can use that information in making decisions for their 23/24 roster. It might not be the all-or-nothing plan you wanted for this season, but it's still a plan.

 

[blackjackmulligan]

I get your point. I just disagree with the all-or-nothing approach, disagree that it's binary -- that you have to either sign Gaudreau, or sell off everything and be a doormat for an indefinite number of seasons.

They're a young team. I don't think you want an even younger team where the players lose year after year, having the stench, habits, and effects of being a loser become ingrained.

They are still in the entertainment business first-and-foremost. As someone who watches virtually every game, I don't want to invest years in watching a doormat, placing all hopes in the draft.

I don't think they are that bad of a team. I think they'll have an over .500 points percentage this season. Have some young breakouts, hopefully. And they can use this season to determine which players they need to move on from. And they can use that information in making decisions for their 23/24 roster. It might not be the all-or-nothing plan you wanted for this season, but it's still a plan.

I do not buy this they are a young team stuff. Plus you can always gets vets on short term deals.

We totally disagree as no way this is a over .500 team. Only way that happens is they face all the backups goalies and they shit the bed. They are a bad team to me. Look at the other teams in the division. They are pulling up the rear.

They don't have to be a doormat if they rebuild. That gives you something to look forward to. Even so rather they take that approach then the guaranteed losing approach they have for the last decade plus.

 

[renberg]

The Flames performance in the POs with Gaudreau and Tkachuk isn't too good. Maybe they'll do better with Kadri and Huberdeau?

 

[Curufinwe]

Maybe. JG did lead them in playoff points scored, and scored the winning goal in game 7 OT.

 

[dats81]

Kadri turns 32 on October 6th, so he'll be 38 years and 8 months old when his contract expires in June 2029.

Huberdeau turns 30 on June 4th, so he'll be 38 when his contract expires in June, 2031.

Couturier turns 30 on December 7th, so he'll be 37 years and 6 months old when his contract expires in June, 2030.

Three guys their teams are counting on being good for most of their 30s.

Well, it's acceptable to mortgage your future when you are close to success. The Flames will make the playoffs every season and probably get a realistic shot at winning a cup before the need to start worrying about how to get rid of those aging players. Also a free amnesty buyout may be part of the next CBA. It's a calculated risk.

 

[Garbage Goal]

That Kadri deal is bad. He’s not likely to hold up well for a lot longer, if much at all. Huberdeau is much older than I realized. They lost Johnny.

In a vacuum I get these moves and I’d even be mildly supportive of them if this were a contending team or a team like Pittsburgh trying to squeeze all they can out of the last few years they have.

It’s not though. They’ve never really rised above mediocre to merely good for any extended period of time for a very long time now. They’re setting themselves up to be one of the oldest and most hamstrung teams in the league when they’re not great to begin with.

It’s a bad move because it’s a bad direction and it’s a bad classic UFA style deal to a player past his prime most likely.

 

[Ghosts Beer]

That Kadri deal is bad. He’s not likely to hold up well for a lot longer, if much at all. Huberdeau is much older than I realized. They lost Johnny.

In a vacuum I get these moves and I’d even be mildly supportive of them if this were a contending team or a team like Pittsburgh trying to squeeze all they can out of the last few years they have.

It’s not though. They’ve never really rised above mediocre to merely good for any extended period of time for a very long time now. They’re setting themselves up to be one of the oldest and most hamstrung teams in the league when they’re not great to begin with.

It’s a bad move because it’s a bad direction and it’s a bad classic UFA style deal to a player past his prime most likely.

Eh, they want to go for it while they have a good team, a great coach, and while the West is relatively weak. I don't blame them.

If you wait for perfection, you'll be waiting forever. Seymour Skinner when he's driving the school bus and trying to merge.

 

[LegionOfDoom91]

The power has definitely shifted to the eastern conference in hockey these days. So at least short term Calgary can take advantage of that. Colorado is really the only team in that conference you can say with good conviction that has a better roster than Calgary.

The contracts definitely suck & will very likely hurt them in the long run. I hate the NHL hands out these type of contracts in general but at least there is some viable pathway for short term success there.

 

[deadhead]

Kadri turns 32 on October 6th, so he'll be 38 years and 8 months old when his contract expires in June 2029.

Huberdeau turns 30 on June 4th, so he'll be 38 when his contract expires in June, 2031.

Couturier turns 30 on December 7th, so he'll be 37 years and 6 months old when his contract expires in June, 2030.

Three guys their teams are counting on being good for most of their 30s.

Flyers are paying Couts Kadri money. I'll take Couts.

 

[FLYguy3911]

I get why they did it, but they were due for regression even if Johnny and Tkachuk came back. Now losing their two best players...idk.

 

[Tripod]

For Calgary to be losing Gaudreau and Tkachuk....but add Huberdeau, Kadri and Weegar.....they made out quite ok given what could have been.

 

[TheKingPin]

Kadri turns 32 on October 6th, so he'll be 38 years and 8 months old when his contract expires in June 2029.

Huberdeau turns 30 on June 4th, so he'll be 38 when his contract expires in June, 2031.

Couturier turns 30 on December 7th, so he'll be 37 years and 6 months old when his contract expires in June, 2030.

Three guys their teams are counting on being good for most of their 30s.

None of it looks great, but at least two of them just hit career highs/records. The other sat out the entire year.

Also, I think we will all be taken over by robots by then. 2031 sounds VERY futuristic. Especially June, 2031.

 

[wasup]

For Calgary to be losing Gaudreau and Tkachuk....but add Huberdeau, Kadri and Weegar.....they made out quite ok given what could have been.

When you are given lemons you make lemonade . Jonny and Little Keith f%&$*ked Calgary and their GM did what he could to save them for now . In 5 years time who knows but the GM saved his job and fans will show up and watch vs the alternative . I actually commend him .

 

[Curufinwe]

None of it looks great, but at least two of them just hit career highs/records. The other sat out the entire year.

Like Couturier, Huby signed his contract a year early. So who knows how his last season on his old deal will go.

 

[Magua]

I don't think anyone would be sweating bullets about Couturier's contract, if it wasn't for the back injury. It's still not near the top of my worries, at least today. The Flyers are two teams: With Couturier and Without Couturier.

The Flyers HAD to sign Couturier if they didn't want to implode and remain competitive. But damned if they didn't do their best to sign Couturier and do everything possible to implode and remain non-competitive afterwards. The context is the killer. They'll waste whatever good early years he can provide.

 

[Starat327]

You playing dumb again on purpose?

Let me give you a hint: it's not a play.

 

[GapToothedWonder]

$7m for ages 32 to 39, based off one year of fluke scoring on an elite offensive team? I'm sure Calgary won't regret that signing at all.

After losing both Fatty and JG I think they just have to go balls to the walls for the next 2 or 3 seasons anyways. They can either decide to spend the next few years going down guns blazing, or try to play it safe and end up with an expensive roster full of mid level talents and no corner stones.

The contract will hurt long term and might not end up even being great short term, but they are a team that is actually in position to over pay to compete right now.

 

[Rebels57]

Great players are worth spending money on even deep into their 30s. Teams kill themselves by overspending on middling, or in the case of the Flyers, bad players.

 

[Striiker]

After losing both Fatty and JG I think they just have to go balls to the walls for the next 2 or 3 seasons anyways. They can either decide to spend the next few years going down guns blazing, or try to play it safe and end up with an expensive roster full of mid level talents and no corner stones.

The contract will hurt long term and might not end up even being great short term, but they are a team that is actually in position to over pay to compete right now.

I still wouldn’t do it. It’ll be their Hayes contract.

I’d rather have flexibility for other possible additions than settle for a signing like this.

 

[Beef Invictus]

Great players are worth spending money on even deep into their 30s. Teams kill themselves by overspending on middling, or in the case of the Flyers, bad players.

High quality FAs are cheaper relative to the cap than ever. The middling guys remain as expensive as ever.

 

[MacDonald4MVP]

High quality FAs are cheaper relative to the cap than ever. The middling guys remain as expensive as ever.

Just look at Giordano's deal. And then we go and sign Deslorieus lol.

 

[LegionOfDoom91]

The issue with the Flames is this. This is the ages of their top players come opening night this year (some these guys have fall/winter birthdays in season).

Backlund (33)
Kadri (32)
Tanev (32)
Markstrom (32)
Coleman (30)
Toffoli (30)
Huberdeau (29)
Weegar (28)
Lindholm (27)
Mangiapane (26)
Hanifin (25)
Andersson (25)

That’s an average age of 29 years old. Even beyond contracts that’s a team that has to strike now as they’re not an organization with a lot of U23 talent either.

 

[LegionOfDoom91]

The issue with the Flames is this. This is the ages of their top players come opening night this year (some these guys have fall/winter birthdays in season).

Backlund (33)
Kadri (32)
Tanev (32)
Markstrom (32)
Coleman (30)
Toffoli (30)
Huberdeau (29)
Weegar (28)
Lindholm (27)
Mangiapane (26)
Hanifin (25)
Andersson (25)

That’s an average age of 29 years old. Even beyond contracts that’s a team that has to strike now as they’re not an organization with a lot of U23 talent either.

Here’s their remaining term too.

Backlund - 2 years (UFA)
Kadri - 7 years (UFA)
Tanev - 2 years (UFA)
Markstrom - 4 years (UFA)
Coleman - 5 years (UFA)
Toffoli - 2 years (UFA)
Huberdeau - 9 years (UFA)
Weegar - 1 year (UFA)
Lindholm - 2 years (UFA)
Mangiapane - 3 years (UFA)
Hanifin - 2 years (UFA)
Andersson - 4 years (UFA)

So this is very much a two year window for them these next two seasons. Naturally they’re not gonna be able to re-sign all of those guys with expiring contracts within these next few years (some of them just might not be worth it come then anyway). I’d imagine they’re gonna keep pushing their chips all in during that time frame in terms of draft capital. So that’s gonna make it tougher to mitigate some of these big contracts down the line without a lot of obviously cheap talent coming up through the pipeline.

 

[deadhead]

Apres moi, le deluge.

 

[The Rage Kage]

I don't think as a GM you can let your team implode due to players refusing to sign, in your city specifically. Bad optics and sets a bad precedent to the fans. Trevyling did what he could to mitigate an unfortunate situation. Would it be better asset management to accept that you wont be a contender anymore and start planning for the future? Probably, but thats a very difficult sell when you were one of the top teams in the west the previous season.