Miscellaneous NHL Discussion LXXXVI: 86 Proof

[Beef Invictus]

If Fletcher had signed him, given he didn't draft him, that would have impressed more more than Hextall signing his own draft pick.

Same with Ginning, Fletcher had no reason to sign him unless his scouts said there was some upside there (probably off his performance in the SHL playoffs).

If Fletcher is only interested in players he drafted then he's a shitty GM. That's bad management.

 

[Flyerfan18]

If Fletcher is only interested in players he drafted then he's a shitty GM. That's bad management.

There’s nothing to suggest he is.

 

[blackjackmulligan]

If Fletcher had signed him, given he didn't draft him, that would have impressed more more than Hextall signing his own draft pick.

Same with Ginning, Fletcher had no reason to sign him unless his scouts said there was some upside there (probably off his performance in the SHL playoffs).

He had no skin in that game so they saw something. Time will tell if they are correct.

 

[FlyerNutter]

Who do you think is available after pick 100 or so?
Guys with skating issues (Strome), guys with size issue (Martel), guys with skills issues (Bunnaman).
If a player can skate, has good size and above average skill, he's called a "first round pick."

There are players who fall through the cracks, but not many.
If speed made you a NHL player, WIllman would be starting for us this season.

Cute, but no.

The Flyers scouting department deserves to be homeless asking for nickels on the sidewalk. Pigs eating out of the country club trough.

 

[flyerslducks]

Wonder what our top 5 prospects would look like if we did the prospect voting lol

 

[freakydallas13]

Wonder what our top 5 prospects would look like if we did the prospect voting lol

1) Middle six forward
2) Bottom four defenceman
3) Banished to a gulag
4) Permanently Injured
5) Dime a dozen 4th liner

Replace 3) with another projected middle 6 forward/#4 dman and you would have a place holder you could use for the Flyers every offseason for eternity.

 

[BlackandOrange]

Could be wrong, but I think that means shootout, which is just as bad

Yes it is shootout. I corrected it at like 2 am on my phone, but looks like HF never updated or something went wrong. I also think the shootout should be 5 aside.

 

[deadhead]

Cute, but no.

The Flyers scouting department deserves to be homeless asking for nickels on the sidewalk. Pigs eating out of the country club trough.

Both Hextall and Fletcher have done a better job finding talent outside the first round than Sakic.
Of all the flaws of the Flyer management since 2014, drafting outside the 1st rd isn't one of them.
It's just that the odds of hitting on any of these guys is slim.

Which is why I don't mind trading picks outside the 1st rd, it's what they trade for that has been the problem.

 

[PALE PWNR]

Wonder what our top 5 prospects would look like if we did the prospect voting lol

There have been some disastrous prospect rankings in past years, I don't think this year would even come close to the worst.

 

[Magua]

Both Hextall and Fletcher have done a better job finding talent outside the first round than Sakic.
Of all the flaws of the Flyer management since 2014, drafting outside the 1st rd isn't one of them.

Fletcher's tenure drafting for the Wild was horrific outside the 1st round. Kaprizov already has the 5th most games played since 2010, just ahead of Soucy and Seeler. And I know you cling to the fantasy that he and Blech Bleh are draft sages.

Counting certain Fletcher Flyers picks before almost all of them have turned pro is also a questionable argument. We've seen how that works out. GMs get too much shit and too much credit for mid-late round picks anyway. All they can do is set draft philosophies and hope their underlings (with many scouts predating the GM) do their jobs. Fletcher's draft philosophy is to draft for fit and floor (read: AHL depth). And not draft much at all, even if the team is out of the playoffs. That's one helluva draft philosophy.

Now, taking the long way back to your point, a GM takes a metric ton more credit for NHL level moves. Where Sakic has run laps and laps around dear Chuckles. Your false equivalencies are just that.

 

[flyerslducks]

1) Middle six forward
2) Bottom four defenceman
3) Banished to a gulag
4) Permanently Injured
5) Dime a dozen 4th liner

Replace 3) with another projected middle 6 forward/#4 dman and you would have a place holder you could use for the Flyers every offseason for eternity.

hhahahahahahaha permanently injured. This was great lol

 

[Tripod]

It's on @Curufinwe to do the prospect rankings thread and then we can see.

 

[Magua]

No one should waste their energy on a prospect poll project.

Serious question: does the shiny new 5th overall pick crack the top 5 prospects for a mid-tier pool short on top talent? If he does, how razor thin is it?

 

[freakydallas13]

No one should waste their energy on a prospect poll project.

Serious question: does the shiny new 5th overall pick crack the top 5 prospects for a mid-tier pool short on top talent? If he does, how razor thin is it?

Off the top of my head, I like:

Zamula
Fedotov
Foerster
Brink
York (if he counts)

All more than Cutter. Cases could probably be made for Laczynki and Allison being better prospects too.

 

[Tripod]

Cutter would have to be #1, right?

 

[BringBackHakstol]

Off the top of my head, I like:

Zamula
Fedotov
Foerster
Brink
York (if he counts)

All more than Cutter. Cases could probably be made for Laczynki and Allison being better prospects too.

I'm not a fan of cutter but that might be a little harsh.

Plus zamula might already have the stink of flyers ahl development on him

 

[Magua]

Cutter would have to be #1, right?

Why? Because he went 5th overall? I think it's perfectly fair to evaluate him as a 15-20, middle 6 talent. We're basically arguing which middle 6/2nd pair upside player is the top prospect for the 4th worst team......

Off the top of my head, I like:

Zamula
Fedotov
Foerster
Brink
York (if he counts)

All more than Cutter. Cases could probably be made for Laczynki and Allison being better prospects too.

In my head, I see Frost (marginal if you'd call him a prospect), York, Foerster, Zamula, Brink as his competition. We aren't talking high high end pieces here. Take out Frost, he's probably by default top 5.

Laczynski and Allison are old enough where I'd probably give an edge to 6 mystery box years of development time (then again, Flyers). But I admit it's plausible Allison could be more effective in his prime. Lacyznski seems destined to a bottom 6 role. Zamula, they can't telegraph harder they're not going to give him the opportunities he merits (not thicc, not Fletcher's signing). Foerster (depends how you want to weigh last year; I'm on Team Mulligan) and Brink can't skate well, but Gauthier isn't that much of a transition threat himself, and I think they're smarter offensively. That I just shrug basically says it all.

Oh, I forgot Tippett and Ristolainen and Desnoyers.

 

[freakydallas13]

I'm not a fan of cutter but that might be a little harsh.

Plus zamula might already have the stink of flyers ahl development on him

Flyers development will stink up every Flyers prospect, you either weigh it equally on every prospect or not at all.

Either way I like Zamula as prospect more. Will the Flyers ever give him a chance? As Magua pointed out, seems unlikely. But I still like him more than Cutter. I disliked the Cutter pick back in March when I started looking at this year's draft class, and nothing has changed my mind since then.

 

[TheKingPin]

Both Hextall and Fletcher have done a better job finding talent outside the first round than Sakic.
Of all the flaws of the Flyer management since 2014, drafting outside the 1st rd isn't one of them.
It's just that the odds of hitting on any of these guys is slim.

Which is why I don't mind trading picks outside the 1st rd, it's what they trade for that has been the problem.

Sakic built a team, won a cup, and retired all while Fletcher hasn’t done anything, and that’s being nice. He’s ruined more than he’s helped.

Why? Because he went 5th overall? I think it's perfectly fair to evaluate him as a 15-20, middle 6 talent. We're basically arguing which middle 6/2nd pair upside player is the top prospect for the 4th worst team......



In my head, I see Frost (marginal if you'd call him a prospect), York, Foerster, Zamula, Brink as his competition. We aren't talking high high end pieces here. Take out Frost, he's probably by default top 5.

Laczynski and Allison are old enough where I'd probably give an edge to 6 mystery box years of development time (then again, Flyers). But I admit it's plausible Allison could be more effective in his prime. Lacyznski seems destined to a bottom 6 role. Zamula, they can't telegraph harder they're not going to give him the opportunities he merits (not thicc, not Fletcher's signing). Foerster (depends how you want to weigh last year; I'm on Team Mulligan) and Brink can't skate well, but Gauthier isn't that much of a transition threat himself, and I think they're smarter offensively. That I just shrug basically says it all.

Oh, I forgot Tippett and Ristolainen and Desnoyers.

That plus Cutter is actually pretty good, if you have a few top end pieces. If they purposefully tanked this year, you’d be in a good spot. Maybe great spot depending on the finish and how many firsts you added.

 

[Tripod]

Why? Because he went 5th overall? I think it's perfectly fair to evaluate him as a 15-20, middle 6 talent. We're basically arguing which middle 6/2nd pair upside player is the top prospect for the 4th worst team......



In my head, I see Frost (marginal if you'd call him a prospect), York, Foerster, Zamula, Brink as his competition. We aren't talking high high end pieces here. Take out Frost, he's probably by default top 5.

Laczynski and Allison are old enough where I'd probably give an edge to 6 mystery box years of development time (then again, Flyers). But I admit it's plausible Allison could be more effective in his prime. Lacyznski seems destined to a bottom 6 role. Zamula, they can't telegraph harder they're not going to give him the opportunities he merits (not thicc, not Fletcher's signing). Foerster (depends how you want to weigh last year; I'm on Team Mulligan) and Brink can't skate well, but Gauthier isn't that much of a transition threat himself, and I think they're smarter offensively. That I just shrug basically says it all.

Oh, I forgot Tippett and Ristolainen and Desnoyers.

Well yes....my thinking was that he went #5....he must be better than what we already have since none are top 10 talents it seems.

You having him as a 15-20 talent is really depressing as I have not bothered watching him. I just assumed he has SOME upside that would easily push him past what we already have. If he doesn't, what a waste of a pick. I trust your judgment.

I hate this organization

 

[Rebels57]

Well yes....my thinking was that he went #5....he must be better than what we already have since none are top 10 talents it seems.

You having him as a 15-20 talent is really depressing as I have not bothered watching him. I just assumed he has SOME upside that would easily push him past what we already have. If he doesn't, what a waste of a pick. I trust your judgment.

I hate this organization

Scouching ranked Gauthier 23 in their final pre-draft ranking.

 

[wankstifier]

Why? Because he went 5th overall? I think it's perfectly fair to evaluate him as a 15-20, middle 6 talent. We're basically arguing which middle 6/2nd pair upside player is the top prospect for the 4th worst team......



In my head, I see Frost (marginal if you'd call him a prospect), York, Foerster, Zamula, Brink as his competition. We aren't talking high high end pieces here. Take out Frost, he's probably by default top 5.

Laczynski and Allison are old enough where I'd probably give an edge to 6 mystery box years of development time (then again, Flyers). But I admit it's plausible Allison could be more effective in his prime. Lacyznski seems destined to a bottom 6 role. Zamula, they can't telegraph harder they're not going to give him the opportunities he merits (not thicc, not Fletcher's signing). Foerster (depends how you want to weigh last year; I'm on Team Mulligan) and Brink can't skate well, but Gauthier isn't that much of a transition threat himself, and I think they're smarter offensively. That I just shrug basically says it all.

Oh, I forgot Tippett and Ristolainen and Desnoyers.

Ristolainen is a prospect until he retires because some people here will always be dreaming about his value in the playoffs.

 

[FLYguy3911]

Damn. @Magua was higher on Gauthier than me lol.

 

[Ghosts Beer]

Morgan Frost has played 77 NHL games. More NHL games than AHL games (65).

He's no longer a prospect.

York has only played 33 NHL games (42 AHL), and last season was his first full pro season, so I think he still qualifies as a prospect.

Noah Cates, also still a prospect IMO.

So, I'd say something like:

1. York
2. Foerster
3. Gauthier
4. Brink
5. Cates
6. Andrae
7. Zamula
8. Desnoyers
9. Allison
10. Attard
11. Wisdom
12. Tuomaala
13. Laczynski
14. Kolosov
15. Kaplan

 

[Curufinwe]

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www.hasristolainenplayedinaplayoffgame.com