Miscellaneous NHL Discussion LXXXVI: 86 Proof

[blackjackmulligan]

I'm going off what former players said. I'm not sure what's so hard to understand there.

Do you think TB doesn't win two Cups if they have a different captain? Do you think they win 3 Cups if they have a different captain? Do you think Michael Leighton is motivated to make some basic saves if Timonen is captain?

Do you think Colorado would be bad if they had a different captain?

Captain's do have responsibility though; they can talk to refs. That's pretty much it.

Why are you equating the skill level of players to the captain. You dont think they are important when players themselves have said they are

Giroux was a great captain. Nothing he could do to curb the slow starts and being unprepared.

Since you mentioned the GM previously how are they responsible for the slow starts and team being unprepared that I mentioned?

 

[BackToTheBrierePatch]

some sads...the world isn't fair, that's for sure

It makes me sad that children so young have little to no chance at a long productive normal life. I hate this world sometimes

 

[Beef Invictus]

Why are you equating the skill level of players to the captain. You dont think they are important when players themselves have said they are

Giroux was a great captain. Nothing he could do to curb the slow starts and being unprepared.

Since you mentioned the GM previously how are they responsible for the slow starts and team being unprepared that I mentioned?

GM hiring bad coaches and signing bad players.


The problem with your "but the players said!" deal is that players also say the captain isn't vitally important, that leadership is divided and comes from many players, and we even have a recent example of a team winning a Cup without their captain.

 

[blackjackmulligan]

GM hiring bad coaches and signing bad players.


The problem with your "but the players said!" deal is that players also say the captain isn't vitally important, that leadership is divided and comes from many players, and we even have a recent example of a team winning a Cup without their captain.

At least blaming the GM for the slow starts is a new take I will say.

No one said you cant win a cup without your captain. You are going in many diff directions.

Enjoy your dinner.

 

[Beef Invictus]

At least blaming the GM for the slow starts is a new take I will say.

No one said you cant win a cup without your captain. You are going in many diff directions.

Enjoy your dinner.

Yes, because I'm showing you numerous ways the captaincy doesn't matter. The guys aren't NFL QBs.

 

[dats81]

Captaincy may not matter with a functional team and system in place.

But to ever get there, to show up in good shape after summer, to have everyone buy into a system and work a little harder to compensate for the potential lack of talent, to sacrifice not only your body but maybe some precious time with your family, you absolutely need an above average C.

Of course, one can divide leadership and assume different roles but someone still has to lead the pack.

 

[mja]

The "C" is the single most overrated thing in the history of sports.

 

[Beef Invictus]

The "C" is the single most overrated thing in the history of sports.

And the Flyers are responsible for pushing that narrative a ton because Clarke's ego has a vested interest in seeming more important.

 

[Striiker]

Captaincy may not matter with a functional team and system in place.

But to ever get there, to show up in good shape after summer, to have everyone buy into a system and work a little harder to compensate for the potential lack of talent, to sacrifice not only your body but maybe some precious time with your family, you absolutely need an above average C.

Of course, one can divide leadership and assume different roles but someone still has to lead the pack.

The captain is responsible for literally zero of these things.
How are people brainwashed this badly?

The only people who are responsible for that are the coaches and GM.

Until the captain has the power to change the roster, they can only control themselves. Do your own job, lead by example, and there’s nothing else you can do.

 

[dats81]

The captain is responsible for literally zero of these things.
How are people brainwashed this badly?

The only people who are responsible for that are the coaches and GM.

Until the captain has the power to change the roster, they can only control themselves. Do your own job, lead by example, and there’s nothing else you can do.

Great teams are more than the sum of its parts.
Team spirit and work ethic cannot be forced upon you by the HC or GM. In a league with lot of parity, leadership can move the needle.

They way you look at it being a hockey player sounds like an ordinary a 9-5 job.

 

[blackjackmulligan]

Yes, because I'm showing you numerous ways the captaincy doesn't matter. The guys aren't NFL QBs.

yep you showed me.

 

[FLYguy3911]

The Captain is just low hanging fruit for NA casuals.

Is the captaincy this much of a target in soccer?

 

[Ghosts Beer]

Captaincy may not matter with a functional team and system in place.

But to ever get there, to show up in good shape after summer, to have everyone buy into a system and work a little harder to compensate for the potential lack of talent, to sacrifice not only your body but maybe some precious time with your family, you absolutely need an above average C.

Of course, one can divide leadership and assume different roles but someone still has to lead the pack.

The irony, of course, being the Flyers were captained in their heyday by one of the greatest leaders in sports history in Bobby Clarke.

Hell, after the Flyers won their first Cup in ‘74, Clarke was so concerned about the team getting out-of-shape & complacent in the summer, that he rented a rink in NJ for 10 days in early September before the next season to hold an informal team training camp. That was to make sure the team was ready to go mentally & physically when the real camp started afterward. That’s leadership.

 

[Beef Invictus]

The irony, of course, being the Flyers were captained in their heyday by one of the greatest leaders in sports history in Bobby Clarke.

Hell, after the Flyers won their first Cup in ‘74, Clarke was so concerned about the team getting out-of-shape & complacent in the summer, that he rented a rink in NJ for 10 days in early September before the next season to hold an informal team training camp. That was to make sure the team was ready to go mentally & physically when the real camp started afterward. That’s leadership.

Without Bernie Parent, Clarke wouldn't be remembered that way.

 

[Flyerfan18]

Captains matter and play a large role in a teams success. To argue otherwise tells me you never played a competitive sport and don’t have any real understanding of hockey.

With that being said, The role has diminished somewhat though recently with the players in general becoming more self entitled. It’s clear sports in general are moving away from team play to how much money can I make myself. Baseball is a prime example with opt out clauses in contracts.

I hate the player but Crosby is a prime example of why captains matter. Example, He is involved behind the scenes on contract negotiations acting as a buffer between players and management. Taking a discount on his contract and convincing others to do the same. They do a lot more would take all day to explain and each good one is different in many ways and plays different roles.

 

[Beef Invictus]

Crosby is a hilarious example, when the Penguins were poorly coached he was assigned the blame and it was asserted that his leadership was the biggest reason for failure. Then they get a good coach and suddenly, overnight, he's Mr Leadership. What a crock of shit.

Captains matter and play a large role in a teams success. To argue otherwise tells me you never played a competitive sport and don’t have any real understanding of hockey.

With that being said, The role has diminished somewhat though recently with the players in general becoming more self entitled. It’s clear sports in general are moving away from team play to how much money can I make myself. Baseball is a prime example with opt out clauses in contracts.

I hate the player but Crosby is a prime example of why captains matter. Example, He is involved behind the scenes on contract negotiations acting as a buffer between players and management. Taking a discount on his contract and convincing others to do the same. They do a lot more would take all day to explain and each good one is different in many ways and plays different roles.

Hayes did this without being the captain.

Players aren't more entitled, the percentage of cap hit for star players has dropped overall.

 

[Hollywood Cannon]

Captains matter and play a large role in a teams success. To argue otherwise tells me you never played a competitive sport and don’t have any real understanding of hockey.

With that being said, The role has diminished somewhat though recently with the players in general becoming more self entitled. It’s clear sports in general are moving away from team play to how much money can I make myself. Baseball is a prime example with opt out clauses in contracts.

I hate the player but Crosby is a prime example of why captains matter. Example, He is involved behind the scenes on contract negotiations acting as a buffer between players and management. Taking a discount on his contract and convincing others to do the same. They do a lot more would take all day to explain and each good one is different in many ways and plays different roles.

Was Giroux a good captain?

 

[Hollywood Cannon]

Crosby is a hilarious example, when the Penguins were poorly coached he was assigned the blame and it was asserted that his leadership was the biggest reason for failure. Then they get a good coach and suddenly, overnight, he's Mr Leadership. What a crock of shit.



Hayes did this without being the captain.

Players aren't more entitled, the percentage of cap hit for star players has dropped overall.

 

[JojoTheWhale]

Having leaders is always going to be a thing that influences group dynamics, but that's not what this discussion is about. Hockey tradition just lionizes the Captaincy more than any other major sport. It's one of the core tenets of the subculture. A sign for the true believers. Is what it is.

Read any post about why NHL Captaincy is different from normal leadership and there will invariably be bitching about today's players or people today. That's not a coincidence

*Edit* hahahahahahahaha

 

[Striiker]

Great teams are more than the sum of its parts.
Team spirit and work ethic cannot be forced upon you by the HC or GM. In a league with lot of parity, leadership can move the needle.

They way you look at it being a hockey player sounds like an ordinary a 9-5 job.

Nah. None of this leadership/intangibles fetish stuff has anything to do with who has a little letter on their jersey.

It's for marketing purposes. Nothing more. There isn't a team in the league that'd be impacted in any way if the C magically hopped to different players between games.

 

[Hollywood Cannon]

 

[TCTC]

Karma for how they got rid of Fleury.

 

[Hollywood Cannon]

Karma for how they got rid of Fleury.

Nic Deslauriers is karma for how the Flyers got rid of Giroux.

 

[Flyerfan4life]

inB4 Ellis presser saying samething

 

[blackjackmulligan]

Did he hurt his hip falling off the wagon?