Miscellaneous NHL Discussion LXXXVI: 86 Proof

[Beef Invictus]

What's irrelevant to you isn't always irrelevant to hockey players. I'm sure Giroux took pride in wearing the C and his word carried weight in the locker room.
Sometimes when things aren't going well people are looking for someone to lead the way. That's what the captain is there for because not everyone is a natural leader.

Yeah, but every team is filled with leaders. Only in hockey is the captain elevated over those other leaders and practically deified. It's ridiculous.

 

[Beef Invictus]

Why do the players who play the game say differently?

Why do players who play the game repeatedly affirm there are numerous players acting as leaders, not just captains?

 

[blackjackmulligan]

Why do players who play the game repeatedly affirm there are numerous players acting as leaders, not just captains?

Are you going to answer the question?

 

[Beef Invictus]

Are you going to answer the question?

My question directly addresses yours. Change the question mark to a period or exclamation point if you'd like.

 

[LegionOfDoom91]

You could compare Crosby’s deal to Ovechkin’s from back the. Ovechkin got more money $124x13 ($9.53M AAV) which he signed in 2008 to Crosby’s $104.4x12 ($8.7M AAV) in 2012. Crosby’s deal was front loaded though & had a NMC the entire contract where Ovechkin’s salary was more so balanced out out & he got 10 NTC in the back half of the deal.

So Crosby did take a discount on comparison to his counterpart in Ovechkin but he still got some perks to do so in the front loading & NMC. Obviously these contracts aren’t legal anymore. So it’s harder to get that happy medium with a player & the team.

So what’s a discount today? McDavid was $100x8 ($12.5M AAV). How much of a discount can really take where it makes sense on a team’s cap structure & has you taking a huge cut in pay?

The rumor is that in 2024 there’s going to be sustainable raise in the salary cap. I believe that’s because the players will have fulfilled their obligations with the escrow agreement by then from Covid so they’ll start to see the ESPN/TNT tv deal money.

Matthews is a UFA the following summer. I’d have to imagine the NHLPA wants these two guys to break the barrier McDavid has held for. while now to drive up the ceiling.

 

[Curufinwe]

Matthews leaving Toronto would be a hoot. I'm not one of those fans who hate the Leafs, but it would be fun to see.

 

[blackjackmulligan]

My question directly addresses yours. Change the question mark to a period or exclamation point if you'd like.

No it doesn't. Not at all. The conversation was about captains. You added another variable.

 

[LegionOfDoom91]

Matthews leaving Toronto would be a hoot. I'm not one of those fans who hate the Leafs, but it would be fun to see.

I’m not sure he leaves Toronto. I think a lot of the speculation is based around him being from Arizona & Tkachuk/Gaudreau leaving Calgary recently added more fuel to that.

I’m sure Bettman & Arizona would love Matthews there but beyond sentimental value to Matthews does it really make sense? That organization is such a dumpster fire on & off the ice you’d be taking a lot of risk if you’re Matthews. Even with the most optimistic mind it’s still hard to be optimistic about Arizona.

I think Toronto is different than like say Calgary, Winnipeg, & Edmonton. I think Matthews personality is different than say a McDavid’s too. I think he’s less conservative & low key of the two so he actually likes the attention playing Toronto brings. He’s always out in public with Justin Bieber for example who’s from there & is a Maple Leaf fan.

He’ll be the highest paid player in the league though I feel confident in saying that whether it’s Toronto or elsewhere though. If the cap jumps that summer like some are saying he could be close to $15M a year.

 

[JojoTheWhale]

You could compare Crosby’s deal to Ovechkin’s from back the. Ovechkin got more money $124x13 ($9.53M AAV) which he signed in 2008 to Crosby’s $104.4x12 ($8.7M AAV) in 2012. Crosby’s deal was front loaded though & had a NMC the entire contract where Ovechkin’s salary was more so balanced out out & he got 10 NTC in the back half of the deal.

So Crosby did take a discount on comparison to his counterpart in Ovechkin but he still got some perks to do so in the front loading & NMC. Obviously these contracts aren’t legal anymore. So it’s harder to get that happy medium with a player & the team.

So what’s a discount today? McDavid was $100x8 ($12.5M AAV). How much of a discount can really take where it makes sense on a team’s cap structure & has you taking a huge cut in pay?

The rumor is that in 2024 there’s going to be sustainable raise in the salary cap. I believe that’s because the players will have fulfilled their obligations with the escrow agreement by then from Covid so they’ll start to see the ESPN/TNT tv deal money.

Matthews is a UFA the following summer. I’d have to imagine the NHLPA wants these two guys to break the barrier McDavid has held for. while now to drive up the ceiling.

I think this is spot on. Star salaries haven't really kept up with the cap. When Brad Richards signed in 2006, he got 20% of the ceiling. Only McDavid is above 15.2, and he's at 16.7%.

 

[Beef Invictus]

No it doesn't. Not at all. The conversation was about captains. You added another variable.

Yes. I'm showing that they aren't the deities hockey media insists they are. Players routinely affirm that leadership is a communal effort.

 

[Beef Invictus]

I think this is spot on. Star salaries haven't really kept up with the cap. When Brad Richards signed in 2006, he got 20% of the ceiling. Only McDavid is above 15.2, and he's at 16.7%.

I suspect that many GMs are slowly understanding that it isn't cap efficient to dump a critical mass of your cap into someone who may only play 20 out of 60 minutes

 

[Hollywood Cannon]

I think this is spot on. Star salaries haven't really kept up with the cap. When Brad Richards signed in 2006, he got 20% of the ceiling. Only McDavid is above 15.2, and he's at 16.7%.

And that Richards deal was a max contract per the CBA, right? He’s still the only one to do that IIRC.

 

[Kelmitchell2]

We laugh now but wait until Hayes gets the Flyers C next week.

I'd walk away forever

 

[LegionOfDoom91]

I think this is spot on. Star salaries haven't really kept up with the cap. When Brad Richards signed in 2006, he got 20% of the ceiling. Only McDavid is above 15.2, and he's at 16.7%.

Yeah I believe McDavid actually had a deal with Edmonton for $14M a year but later decided to take less to “help” the team too.

Yeah Matthews & MacKinnon are the guys who could justifiably breakthrough McDavid’s mark & into that $14-15M a year mark. McDavid will have 2-3 years left on his current deal when those guys new deals go into effect. So his number becomes less irrelevant & other top players a tier or so below them can start pushing into McDavid’s $12.5M territory & not have be taboo to the hockey men.

 

[blackjackmulligan]

Yes. I'm showing that they aren't the deities hockey media insists they are. Players routinely affirm that leadership is a communal effort.

you said captains are irrelevant game to game. That is not the case as NHL players disagree.

I didn't say leadership can also come for elsewhere. Wasn't what was being discussed.

 

[LegionOfDoom91]

 

[Flyerfan4life]

I suspect that many GMs are slowly understanding that it isn't cap efficient to dump a critical mass of your cap into someone who may only play 20 out of 60 minutes

and the risk of serious injury were they wont even be on the ice at all for stretchs of time....

cue a certain Flyers Dman of mystery... as an example...

 

[Beef Invictus]

you said captains are irrelevant game to game. That is not the case as NHL players disagree.

I didn't say leadership can also come for elsewhere. Wasn't what was being discussed.

They are irrelevant because there are numerous leaders. Teams don't lose all will to play if they aren't there. A captain could miss an entire playoff run and the team could easily go on to win a Cup unless that captain were also an irreplaceable player, and yet hockey media and fans give undue credit for the win to that captain if they're merely present.

TB recently did that with Stamkos. Somehow, they won a Cup without their mythical captain playing. The only thing truly relevant is ability to play hockey.

 

[Starat327]

I know they got hom for pennies, but this is less than ideal.

 

[Rebels57]

I know they got hom for pennies, but this is less than ideal.

They'll be fine without him and can treat his return like a deadline acquisition.

 

[Starat327]

They'll be fine without him and can treat his return like a deadline acquisition.

They'll still make the playoffs for sure but having a MaxPac helps ease the burden for everyone on the way. Then you have to assume he comes back and can play at a regular level.

For every Erik Karlsson( to this day, how the f*** did he do that?) there's a Nate Thompson who was a sure fire first ballot hall of fame before he ruptured his.

 

[Curufinwe]

They would have been better off with JVR.

Wonder if there’s an investigation into Vegas for hiding this injury.

 

[Cody Webster]

They would have been better off with JVR.

Wonder if there’s an investigation into Vegas for hiding this injury.

Judging that the tweet has a picture of him in a Canes practice jersey, I'm going to say that it happened recently and after the trade

 

[BringBackHakstol]

Patches has always looked like a 45 year old man, it's weird

 

[blackjackmulligan]

They are irrelevant because there are numerous leaders. Teams don't lose all will to play if they aren't there. A captain could miss an entire playoff run and the team could easily go on to win a Cup unless that captain were also an irreplaceable player, and yet hockey media and fans give undue credit for the win to that captain if they're merely present.

TB recently did that with Stamkos. Somehow, they won a Cup without their mythical captain playing. The only thing truly relevant is ability to play hockey.

I will take the opinion of actual NHL players over yours. Though I am sure they are incorrect.