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Minnesota Wild General Discussion - 2022-23

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Wabit said:
I am interested to see what Steel can do.

I don't know what to take away from that line from last night. They weren't noticeable 5v5, but looked good against a PK that didn't put any pressure on them.
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It may take a few games. Minnesota though has a glut of middle 6 guys

Greenway, Foligno, Eriksson-Ek, Boldy, Gaudreau, Jost, Steel, Rossi, Hartman

Hartman gets elevated top line due to his chemistry and the Greenway - Ek - Foligno won't be broken up when Greenway comes back.

That leaves Boldy, Gaudreau, Jost, Steel and Rossi to battle it out for one line.
 
thestonedkoala said:
Meh. Even a broken clock can be right twice a day
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I beg to differ. It's all a case-by-case basis. I disagree with the simple blanket statement that its never a good idea. Much like other HF adages, like you never draft a goalie in the 1st round, it is highly dependent. The question is, who is available?

If you reach the near end of a tier list and the next prospect available has a noticeable dive in value, its only reasonable to think it might be worth exploring trading up so you don't experience that drop in value (a bit off topic but FYI i generally put goalies at the end of a tier in consideration of their volatility). Thats why teams have their internal draft value charts.

If we are judging for the current management, see below. So far, out of those 5 trades, 3 is looking good so at this time so I could argue that clocks looking 60% right a day.

2021 4th round pick (MTL - #127 - Josh Pillar)
for
2021 5th round pick (MIN - #150 - Joshua Roy)
2021 7th round pick (MIN - #214 - Joe Vrbetic)

2021 1st round pick (EDM - #20 - Jesper Wallstedt)
for
2021 1st round pick (MIN - #22 - Xavier Bourgault)
2021 3rd round pick (PIT - #90 - Luca Münzenberger)

2020 5th round pick (CAR - #146 - Pavel Novak)
for
2020 6th round pick (MIN - #163 - Will Cranley)
2020 7th round pick (MIN - #194 - Noah Beck)

2020 3rd round pick (SJS - #65 - Daemon Hunt)
for
2020 3rd round pick (MIN - #70 - Eemil Viro)
2020 5th round pick (MIN - #132 - Alex Cotton)

2019 2nd round pick (CAR - #59 - Hunter Jones)
for
2019 3rd round pick (MIN - #73 - Patrik Puistola)
2019 4th round pick (NYR - #99 - Cade Webber)

Notable trade from previous management that got a pretty nice return:
2010 2nd round pick (PHI - #59 - Jason Zucker)
for
2010 3rd round pick (MIN - #69 - Joe Basaraba)
2010 4th round pick (MIN - #99 - Joonas Donskoi)
 
thestonedkoala said:
It may take a few games. Minnesota though has a glut of middle 6 guys

Greenway, Foligno, Eriksson-Ek, Boldy, Gaudreau, Jost, Steel, Rossi, Hartman

Hartman gets elevated top line due to his chemistry and the Greenway - Ek - Foligno won't be broken up when Greenway comes back.

That leaves Boldy, Gaudreau, Jost, Steel and Rossi to battle it out for one line.
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I think calling Boldy a middle 6 guy is a bit disingenuous. He's not a 2nd/ 3rd line tweener. He's a top 2 line guy, who would excel on the top line (more so than the other winger in that spot IMO).
 
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TaLoN said:
I think calling Boldy a middle 6 guy is a bit disingenuous. He's not a 2nd/ 3rd line tweener. He's a top 2 line guy, who would excel on the top line (more so than the other winger in that spot IMO).
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But right now he's a middle six guy. Until Minnesota moves Zuccs off the top line or shift the Ek line to a pure third line, Boldy is middle six for Minnesota.
 
thestonedkoala said:
But right now he's a middle six guy. Until Minnesota moves Zuccs off the top line or shift the Ek line to a pure third line, Boldy is middle six for Minnesota.
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You said a "glut of middle 6 guys" meaning guys who are destined to be middle 6 for their careers, not that they are in the middle 6 purely due to coaching decisions and nothing more.

Nobody would call Boldy " middle 6 guy" if he just didn't happen to be placed in the middle 6, because he absolutely plays a top line level game.

You even went as far as listing 9 players in that "glut of middle 6 guys" meaning you were not basing it on where they are playing... especially since Hartman has been the top line center and yet you included him. I agree Hartman would qualify as a middle 6 guy though by every standard of player analysis, he's a middle 6 guy who is on the top line simply because we have nobody ready for that job as of yet (until maybe Rossi takes it from him?).

Thus, Boldy just doesn't fit that discription. He's a top 6 guy through and through, good for both the top and 2nd lines, not a 2nd/3rd line tweener.
 
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thestonedkoala said:
But right now he's a middle six guy. Until Minnesota moves Zuccs off the top line or shift the Ek line to a pure third line, Boldy is middle six for Minnesota.
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Boldy is a top 6 LW playing on our middle six line. 2nd scoring line, 3rd line listed. whatever you want to call it, he is playing a top 6 LW role.
 
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Circulartheory said:
I beg to differ. It's all a case-by-case basis. I disagree with the simple blanket statement that its never a good idea. Much like other HF adages, like you never draft a goalie in the 1st round, it is highly dependent. The question is, who is available?

If you reach the near end of a tier list and the next prospect available has a noticeable dive in value, its only reasonable to think it might be worth exploring trading up so you don't experience that drop in value (a bit off topic but FYI i generally put goalies at the end of a tier in consideration of their volatility). Thats why teams have their internal draft value charts.

If we are judging for the current management, see below. So far, out of those 5 trades, 3 is looking good so at this time so I could argue that clocks looking 60% right a day.

2021 4th round pick (MTL - #127 - Josh Pillar)
for
2021 5th round pick (MIN - #150 - Joshua Roy)
2021 7th round pick (MIN - #214 - Joe Vrbetic)

2021 1st round pick (EDM - #20 - Jesper Wallstedt)
for
2021 1st round pick (MIN - #22 - Xavier Bourgault)
2021 3rd round pick (PIT - #90 - Luca Münzenberger)

2020 5th round pick (CAR - #146 - Pavel Novak)
for
2020 6th round pick (MIN - #163 - Will Cranley)
2020 7th round pick (MIN - #194 - Noah Beck)

2020 3rd round pick (SJS - #65 - Daemon Hunt)
for
2020 3rd round pick (MIN - #70 - Eemil Viro)
2020 5th round pick (MIN - #132 - Alex Cotton)

2019 2nd round pick (CAR - #59 - Hunter Jones)
for
2019 3rd round pick (MIN - #73 - Patrik Puistola)
2019 4th round pick (NYR - #99 - Cade Webber)
Click to expand...

The only one that I see is possibly the Jesper Wallstedt trade.

Roy appears to be one of the better prospects for Montreal. Too early to tell on the Novak trade. The Hunt trade is a wash as Viro is the same as Hunt. Cotton maybe a bust. Jones is a bust, Puistola and Webber are busts.

So by my count, two are washes (Hunt and Jones), Novak is too early to tell, Pillar trade looks bad and the only trade that looks fine is the Wallstedt trade. There is also the fact that Minnesota may not have taken those exact players at that spot if they didn't move up.

As for Boldy, it isn't semantics. It's how Minnesota builds their team. If Boldy was skilled enough to be a top 6, he'd either move Zuccs off the top line OR he'd force the Ek line to drop one. For now, he's a middle 6 guy with top 6 potential still.
 
thestonedkoala said:
The only one that I see is possibly the Jesper Wallstedt trade.

Roy appears to be one of the better prospects for Montreal. Too early to tell on the Novak trade. The Hunt trade is a wash as Viro is the same as Hunt. Cotton maybe a bust. Jones is a bust, Puistola and Webber are busts.

So by my count, two are washes (Hunt and Jones), Novak is too early to tell, Pillar trade looks bad and the only trade that looks fine is the Wallstedt trade. There is also the fact that Minnesota may not have taken those exact players at that spot if they didn't move up.

As for Boldy, it isn't semantics. It's how Minnesota builds their team. If Boldy was skilled enough to be a top 6, he'd either move Zuccs off the top line OR he'd force the Ek line to drop one. For now, he's a middle 6 guy with top 6 potential still.
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Ok,

If Boldy played on any other team, where would he line up?
 
thestonedkoala said:
As for Boldy, it isn't semantics. It's how Minnesota builds their team. If Boldy was skilled enough to be a top 6, he'd either move Zuccs off the top line OR he'd force the Ek line to drop one. For now, he's a middle 6 guy with top 6 potential still.
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Force the Ek line to drop one what? one line number in your head? Top 6 usage does not include shutdown line in most peoples books. GREEF is a shutdown line with scoring potential.
 
TaLoN said:
You said a "glut of middle 6 guys" meaning guys who are destined to be middle 6 for their careers, not that they are in the middle 6 purely due to coaching decisions and nothing more.

Nobody would call Boldy " middle 6 guy" if he just didn't happen to be placed in the middle 6, because he absolutely plays a top line level game.

You even went as far as listing 9 players in that "glut of middle 6 guys" meaning you were not basing it on where they are playing... especially since Hartman has been the top line center and yet you included him. I agree Hartman would qualify as a middle 6 guy though by every standard of player analysis, he's a middle 6 guy who is on the top line simply because we have nobody ready for that job as of yet (until maybe Rossi takes it from him?).

Thus, Boldy just doesn't fit that discription. He's a top 6 guy through and through, good for both the top and 2nd lines, not a 2nd/3rd line tweener.
Click to expand...

I didn't say Boldy is destined to be a middle 6 guy for his career. Right now, Boldy is slated to play with one of those guys in a middle 6 role. He isn't going to move Zuccs off the first line and Minnesota isn't going to change the Greenway - Ek - Foligno line. Personally, I wish they had moved Greenway and moved Boldy on that line and gave him more time with Ek and Foligno, because I think they would be more skilled. But they are using that line as a shutdown line with Greenway.

And the opposite is happening with Boldy that is going on with Hartman. Minnesota - again for whatever reason - seems to like having Zuccarello - Hartman - Kaprizov as their top line, elevating Hartman from a middle 6 role to a top 6 role. And then Greenway - Eriksson- Ek and Foligno should be a bottom 6 line, but has been elevated to a top 6 line (based off of TOI). And then you have the Boldy - whoever, whoever line, which should be a top 6 line (especially if Rossi is included), but they are moved to a middle 6 role.

As it is, it's semantics. Boldy is a top 6 guy playing in the middle 6 because of Zuccs and because of how Evason sets up their lines. Same with Rossi. They are going to be seeing a lot of middle 6 time, because of Zuccs and because of Eriksson-Ek - Foligno.

Minnewildsota said:
Ok,

If Boldy played on any other team, where would he line up?
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Depends on the team; middle 6 role (like Newhook started) with a chance to elevate to a top 6 once a team moves on. Tell me, should Boldy be inserted in Zuccarello's spot?

More than likely, Boldy is going to get Fiala's minutes this season - or they are going to redistribute them evenly. Who knows with Evason. If Boldy gets Fiala's minutes, he'll be a top 6 player with potential to be a top line player when Minnesota moves on from Zuccarello.

DeagleJenkins said:
Force the Ek line to drop one what? one line number in your head? Top 6 usage does not include shutdown line in most peoples books. GREEF is a shutdown line with scoring potential.
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Force the Eriksson-Ek line to drop in minutes - or rather shifts. Though Boldy could take over Fiala's minutes - but we'll see.

Other than Greenway, Foligno and Eriksson-Ek got more minutes than Boldy did last year.

Tell me this:

Which is Minnesota's top line?
Which is Minnesota's second line?
Which is Minnesota's third line?
Which is Minnesota's fourth line?

And where is Boldy going to be?
 
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thestonedkoala said:
Force the Eriksson-Ek line to drop in minutes - or rather shifts. Though Boldy could take over Fiala's minutes - but we'll see.

Other than Greenway, Foligno and Eriksson-Ek got more minutes than Boldy did last year.

Tell me this:

Which is Minnesota's top line? Kap - Hartman - Zucc
Which is Minnesota's second line? Boldy - ? - ?
Which is Minnesota's third line? GREEF
Which is Minnesota's fourth line? Duhaime - Dewar- ?

And where is Boldy going to be? see above.
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Edited to bold answers.
 
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This is a particularly futile semantics battle because both sides of it are right. Boldy is a middle six player in the way TSK means (he literally plays on those lines). Boldy is not a middle six player in the way everyone else who's responded means (he doesn't belong on a normal 3rd line). There can be no winners in this type of argument, just guys who get mad at each other over how they pronounce tomato.
 
BagHead said:
This is a particularly futile semantics battle because both sides of it are right. Boldy is a middle six player in the way TSK means (he literally plays on those lines). Boldy is not a middle six player in the way everyone else who's responded means (he doesn't belong on a normal 3rd line). There can be no winners in this type of argument, just guys who get mad at each other over how they pronounce tomato.
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Except, he's not in the op that started this. His "glut of middle 6 guys" literally included a guy playing on the top line, thus where they actually played was inconsequential except only to try to fit Boldy in the glut.

Boldy IMO is a better player than 2/3's of the top line, so I don't think he qualifies as one of the "glut of middle 6 guys" which is why I called it disingenuous.

If Hartman is part of the glut, yet plays on the top line, then Boldy is not despite playing on the 2nd line.
 
So the conclusion is that Boldy is a middle six player in the same way that Hartman is a first line player. They're not, but that's where they'll play because reasons.
 
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TaLoN said:
Except, he's not in the op that started this. His "glut of middle 6 guys" literally included a guy playing on the top line, thus where they actually played was inconsequential except only to try to fit Boldy in the glut.

Boldy IMO is a better player than 2/3's of the top line, so I don't think he qualifies as one of the "glut of middle 6 guys" which is why I called it disingenuous.

If Hartman is part of the glut, yet plays on the top line, then Boldy is not despite playing on the 2nd line.
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Well, you're right, that certainly is a contradiction. Would have been more clear what he meant if he'd picked a lane and stuck to it there.
 
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Dickie Dunn said:
I’d like to see Boldy on the first PP unit with Kaprizov. And I like the black alternates……so there!
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I wouldn't hate it if Boldy, Rossi and Addison run the second unit while Kaprizov, Zuccarello and [who cares who's at the point] run the first unit.

A concern I might have is if you put Boldy on the first unit, your second unit doesn't have anybody left to really make it work. Addison should be the PP1 QB but coaching staff seems to like Spurgeon and Goligoski a lot.

Ideally I would at least try:

Kaprizov-Ek/Rossi-Boldy
Zuccarello-Addison

But then you have your 7.5M man taking a backseat.
And I lean Ek at center because he's better around the front of the net than Rossi, but then you have Rossi on an island on the second unit and that doesn't benefit his skillset.
 
AKL said:
I wouldn't hate it if Boldy, Rossi and Addison run the second unit while Kaprizov, Zuccarello and [who cares who's at the point] run the first unit.

A concern I might have is if you put Boldy on the first unit, your second unit doesn't have anybody left to really make it work. Addison should be the PP1 QB but coaching staff seems to like Spurgeon and Goligoski a lot.

Ideally I would at least try:

Kaprizov-Ek/Rossi-Boldy
Zuccarello-Addison

But then you have your 7.5M man taking a backseat.
And I lean Ek at center because he's better around the front of the net than Rossi, but then you have Rossi on an island on the second unit and that doesn't benefit his skillset.
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If Brodin - Spurgeon end up being the top shutdown pairing, I think lowering their TOI by not forcing them onto the PP should be looked at espeially since they are not perfectly setup to succeed there.
 
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DeagleJenkins said:
If Brodin - Spurgeon end up being the top shutdown pairing, I think lowering their TOI by not forcing them onto the PP should be looked at espeially since they are not perfectly setup to succeed there.
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Completely agree with you, I don't want Spurgeon on the PP at all. Let him and Brodin eat up ES and PK minutes.

If it were up to me I would run:

Kaprizov-Ek-Zuccarello-Jost
Goligoski/Dumba

Boldy-Rossi-Hartman-Steel
Addison
 
TaLoN said:
Except, he's not in the op that started this. His "glut of middle 6 guys" literally included a guy playing on the top line, thus where they actually played was inconsequential except only to try to fit Boldy in the glut.

Boldy IMO is a better player than 2/3's of the top line, so I don't think he qualifies as one of the "glut of middle 6 guys" which is why I called it disingenuous.

If Hartman is part of the glut, yet plays on the top line, then Boldy is not despite playing on the 2nd line.
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Except that Minnesota has a ton of wingers that are established in their role. If Rossi outplays Hartman, you don't think they would remove Hartman from that line? Boldy's position is dictated by the fact that Minnesota has a ton of wingers and some of them aren't going to be moved from that position. Hartman started out a winger and in desperation they moved him to center.

My hope is that at the end of the season, Boldy makes Zuccarrello redundant and the lines end up being like this:

Boldy - Hartman - Kaprizov
Zuccarello - Rossi - Gaudreau
Greenway - Eriksson-Ek - Foligno
Duhaime - Steel - Dewar

In terms of TOI:
Kaprizov
Hartman
Boldy
Zuccarello
Rossi
Eriksson-Ek
Foligno
Gaudreau
Greenway

Finally, Boldy hasn't proven he can be a top line winger YET. At the end of the season I don't think there is any question, but will he be held back due to their reluctance to kick Zuccarello off the top line or due to contract reasons or is he going to top out like Granlund?
 
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thestonedkoala said:
Except that Minnesota has a ton of wingers that are established in their role. If Rossi outplays Hartman, you don't think they would remove Hartman from that line? Boldy's position is dictated by the fact that Minnesota has a ton of wingers and some of them aren't going to be moved from that position. Hartman started out a winger and in desperation they moved him to center.
My hope is that at the end of the season, Boldy makes Zuccarrello redundant and the lines end up being like this:
Boldy - Hartman - Kaprizov
Zuccarello - Rossi - Gaudreau
Greenway - Eriksson-Ek - Foligno
Duhaime - Steel - Dewar
In terms of TOI:
Kaprizov
Hartman
Boldy
Zuccarello
Rossi
Eriksson-Ek
Foligno
Gaudreau
Greenway
Finally, Boldy hasn't proven he can be a top line winger YET. At the end of the season I don't think there is any question, but will he be held back due to their reluctance to kick Zuccarello off the top line or due to contract reasons or is he going to top out like Granlund?
Click to expand...
 
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