Proposal: Miller to TOR (again)

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Fatass

Registered User
Apr 17, 2017
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Not sure what the Canucks would be adding to upgrade to Marner, but I doubt the Leafs would accept it.
What could the Leafs add with the five million they save on the cap? Production is pretty close between the two players and Miller provides size and meanness. And will play top line centre if JT or AM go down.
 

Just a Fan

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Feb 22, 2022
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What could the Leafs add with the five million they save on the cap? Production is pretty close between the two players and Miller provides size and meanness. And will play top line centre if JT or AM go down.
I’ll take Marner for 3 more years over Miller for 1…
 

Deadly Dogma

All I have is substantially vapid opinions
Sponsor
May 3, 2016
8,906
5,185
I predict 2 deals
2023(unprotected) 1st+2022 2nd+Niemela+Dermott for Miller@50%

2nd is if Manson is going to be healthy 2022 1st+Knies for Manson@50%
if Manson is iffy then go after Chariot, if the prices are too high circle back to Van for Schenn
 

zcaptain

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Apr 4, 2012
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Miller is 32nd in league scoring over the last for seasons, 15th the last 3.

He's not the superstar/franchise level player nucks fans are building him up to be, but he's a damn good 1st line player.



Lets look at what you said...........so in the last 3 years, Miller would be the leading scorer on 17 teams. Now lets look at it even closer, as 4 of the teams have multiple players on that list (yes, that is four), which means only 11 teams had players that scored more, which actually means he would be the leading scorer over the past 3 years, on 21 teams, which i am not sure what your definition is, but mine says he is a very good player, who is an elite type player.
 
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JanBulisPiggyBack

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Dec 31, 2011
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LMAO. Not when that 5M guy is 1/10th the player that the 10M guy is. And he's not at all injured anymore.

Eichel is an incredible player no doubt, maaaaaaybe not ten times the player Miller but at 10 million he might be getting overpaid for what he brings, with the injury history there is a certain boat anchor contract to a player who might not return to form

Eichel > Miller all day long for sure, but trade value at the time of Eichels trade vs the value of Millers return, I dunno bro I think you can make a case for the returns being similar

trade value is not representative of the player
 

cneely

Registered User
Jan 6, 2005
10,173
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You claimed Miller is not a top 10 scorer, and continue to, and when proven wrong, you alter the your argument to points per game being more valid. I accused you of moving the goal posts and you doubled down. You said they don't award the Art Ross or Richard for 10th place, which they don't, and was never my position. You made up an argument you could win, ie a strawman argument. My point was that the league recognizes total goals and points, not PPG or GPG. There is no way you could have missed that point that badly, short of being a troll or a spambot. So I'm done trying to explain that 2>1, I don't own the right colours of crayons to explain basic math and logic to you further.
Ok. So you’re a moron.

is JT Miller a top 10 offensive player in the nhl or no?
 

Mattycat

Registered User
Jun 25, 2014
35
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Just close these threads .Leafs do not have right assests to get Miller pretty plain and simple!!!! Lafs what do you want for M.M ?
 

seanlinden

Registered User
Apr 28, 2009
25,281
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Couple of points to throw into this fire...

#1. I'd suspect the Leafs interest in Luke Schenn has evaporated after getting Ilya Lyubushkin. Very similar players, Lyubushkin probably gets the edge. If the Leafs are shopping for a defenceman, it's for somebody that is a legit top 4 / borderline top 2 kind of guy... not another depth defender. They have 5 of those (Holl, Dermott, Sandin, Liljegren, Lyubushkin).

#2. The Leafs do not trade both Liljegren & Niemla in the same deal. It is Niemla's emergence that likely gives the Leafs consideration to trading Liljegren. The Leafs are not going to trade the only 2 quality RHDs in the system.This is especially true with the Leafs likely eyeing Sandin for a top 4 spot, thereby opening up a really ideal spot for a Liljegren/Niemla on the 3rd pair.

#3. The comparisons to Eichel -- really need to stop. Yes, you can argue that Miller is a "better value" than Eichel, especially with the injuries, but one needs to understand the mindset that a GM is going to take in trading for Miller, versus trading for Eichel.

You trade for Eichel because you view him as your franchise C. The guy at $10m for the next 4 1/2 years that you're going to form your team around. You trade for him with the vision of him being your best forward. He is a franchise-altering player, and given how he impacts the long term trajectory of your team, you can put just about any prospect into the conversation.

On the Miller front, nobody's trading for him to be their #1C or the teams best forward. While he's obviously done really well since being traded to Vancouver, I think he's somebody that most GMs will view as the perfect complementary piece that you can get for a couple of runs, use up the remainder of his prime (at potentially a super-cheap $2.6m price), and then let him walk. Maybe he "fixes" a problematic 2nd line. Maybe he plays a support role on a 1st line. He forsure produces on the powerplay, likely gets bounced around into a variety of different scenarios.

No question Miller is valuable, but he's not the kind of valuable that teams trade franchise-altering prospects for; because he likely doesn't fit into the long term plans for whichever team is acquiring him.

- The Muzzin deal is a really good comparable.
- Mark Stone also a somewhat reasonable comparison; although the vision for Vegas was certainly to sign Stone immediately and make him a franchise player. He was younger than Miller is as well.
- Pacioretty similar to Stone.
- Hall to Arizona -- I think one runs the risk of underestimating what that deal meant to Arizona in trying to get a reigning MVP who would resign there / make the team relevant -- under what if I recall was reasonably new ownership at the time. I don't think Miller carries that type of "cachet".

Look at the teams rumored to be in on him, and where he likely fits....
-- In Toronto, he's an ideal LWer for one of their top 2 lines, amongst 4 really talented highly paid skill players. He'd be there to do "the grunt work", or maybe make the Leafs 3 lines deep offensively by being the 3rd line C, or a 2nd line LW to run with Kerfoot & Nylander on the 3rd line.

- In New York, they've got their 3 stars in Panarin/Kreider/Zibanejad. Miller likely factors in as the #2C, pushing Strome down/out. Maybe finds himself as the "dirty work" guy on the right side. I suspect they view themselves as still a year or two away from contending, so dropping a huge haul of assets on Miller doesn't make a ton of sense.

- In Los Angeles, it might actually be the best fit for him offensively, given that they don't score a lot and their best player is also a tough matchup guy... but I have to wonder whether they believe that their current core can actually win, or whether they need more from Kempe, Byfield, etc.

- In Boston, I think there's also an ideal fit as a 2nd line C... but how much are they really prepared to / how much do they have to part with? especially on a team that doesn't have the most spectacular blueline.
 
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beachcomber

Registered User
Apr 6, 2015
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I predict 2 deals
2023(unprotected) 1st+2022 2nd+Niemela+Dermott for Miller@50%

2nd is if Manson is going to be healthy 2022 1st+Knies for Manson@50%
if Manson is iffy then go after Chariot, if the prices are too high circle back to Van for Schenn

Terrible, spare parts. The Leafs don't have what the Nucks require.
 

cneely

Registered User
Jan 6, 2005
10,173
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You claimed Miller is not a top 10 scorer, and continue to, and when proven wrong, you alter the your argument to points per game being more valid. I accused you of moving the goal posts and you doubled down. You said they don't award the Art Ross or Richard for 10th place, which they don't, and was never my position. You made up an argument you could win, ie a strawman argument. My point was that the league recognizes total goals and points, not PPG or GPG. There is no way you could have missed that point that badly, short of being a troll or a spambot. So I'm done trying to explain that 2>1, I don't own the right colours of crayons to explain basic math and logic to you further.
I maintain my argument that Miller is not a top 10 scorer in the NHL.
This is getting borderline ridiculous. I don’t for a second doubt that miller is a great player. Not have I ever doubted that. My point had always been that if you ranked the best scoring forwards I the NHL, he would probably not land near the top 10.
You can interpret that however you want, but it’s a little disingenuous to accuse me of moving the goal posts etc. My argument had never changed
 

Diamonddog01

Diamond in the rough
Jul 18, 2007
11,202
4,033
Vancouver
Ok. So you’re a moron.

is JT Miller a top 10 offensive player in the nhl or no?

Resorting to insults is as sure a sign as I’ve ever seen of someone losing an argument. Take the L and move on, at this point you’re just embarrassing yourself.
 
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Ita

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Mar 11, 2019
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he would be the leading scorer over the past 3 years, on 21 teams, which i am not sure what your definition is, but mine says he is a very good player, who is an elite type player.

Yea it makes me wonder what arbitrary threshold you have to meet to be a superstar if being the leader scorer on 21 teams only makes you a “1st liner”.
 
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Holymakinaw

Registered User
May 22, 2007
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Toronto
Yea it makes me wonder what arbitrary threshold you have to meet to be a superstar if being the leader scorer on 21 teams only makes you a “1st liner”.

That just means that there are a lot of crappy teams in the league. Miller is no "Superstar" player. LOL. He's a good player, for sure, but calm down Vancouver fans.

He's scored more than 25 goals ONCE in his career and scored more than 60 points ONCE.

In no universe, does Miller's output make you a "Superstar". Jesus.
 

Holymakinaw

Registered User
May 22, 2007
8,637
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Toronto
It’s abundantly clear as per usual that these teams are not suitable trade partners.

Sure they are. Some of you Canucks fans simply need to come back to reality, as do some Leaf fans. There's a bunch of silly offers from BOTH sides. That doesn't mean the two teams couldn't do something that works for each of them. Who knows?
 

Ita

Registered User
Mar 11, 2019
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936
That just means that there are a lot of crappy teams in the league. Miller is no "Superstar" player. LOL. He's a good player, for sure, but calm down Vancouver fans.

He's scored more than 25 goals ONCE in his career and scored more than 60 points ONCE.

In no universe, does Miller's output make you a "Superstar". Jesus.
Never said he was, I was simply asking what makes a superstar.

Perhaps you should be the one who should calm down before so eagerly trying to attack another fanbase? I mean in your last comment you said Miller is 1/10 the player as Eichel which makes you sound like a troll..
 
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jackjohnson

Registered User
Feb 9, 2021
7,469
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I predict 2 deals
2023(unprotected) 1st+2022 2nd+Niemela+Dermott for Miller@50%

2nd is if Manson is going to be healthy 2022 1st+Knies for Manson@50%
if Manson is iffy then go after Chariot, if the prices are too high circle back to Van for Schenn
that package wont get you Miller at this point. I think canucks might just re-sign him
 

jackjohnson

Registered User
Feb 9, 2021
7,469
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Sure they are. Some of you Canucks fans simply need to come back to reality, as do some Leaf fans. There's a bunch of silly offers from BOTH sides. That doesn't mean the two teams couldn't do something that works for each of them. Who knows?
Miller wont ve traded if you think Toronto will get him for cheap.
 

Diamonddog01

Diamond in the rough
Jul 18, 2007
11,202
4,033
Vancouver
Sure they are. Some of you Canucks fans simply need to come back to reality, as do some Leaf fans. There's a bunch of silly offers from BOTH sides. That doesn't mean the two teams couldn't do something that works for each of them. Who knows?

Ok, Vancouver needs a few things right now. First and foremost a bluechip RS defensive defenceman prospect in the mold of Larsson, Carlo, Murphy, etc who is NHL ready, on an ELC and could grow into becoming a long-term partner for Quinn Hughes. The other thing that the team could use would be a 3rd line shutdown C - also a young player who has played in the league and shows great promise in regards to defensive play. How can Toronto fill these needs for Vancouver?
 

Holymakinaw

Registered User
May 22, 2007
8,637
4,514
Toronto
Never said he was, I was simply asking what makes a superstar.

Perhaps you should be the one who should calm down before so eagerly trying to attack another fanbase? I mean in your last comment you said Miller is 1/10 the player as Eichel which makes you sound like a troll..

Well he IS 1/10th the player Eichel is, so....I'm just stating some facts.
 

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