Proposal: Miller to TOR (again)
- Thread starter DangleBojangle
- Start date
Holymakinaw
Registered User
LOL. Why, because YOU say that's what they need? Sorry, but you ain't the GM of the 'Nucks. You have no clue what they really need & want.
Diamonddog01
Diamond in the rough
Given that I follow the Canucks yeah I do lol. I certainly know far more what they need than a Leafs supporter with a long history of trolling Canuck fans. You ain't the GM of the Leafs...sorry.
Holymakinaw
Registered User
I'm not the one making ridiculous proposals, either, or claiming to know "exactly what an NHL team needs".
Diamonddog01
Diamond in the rough
I'm not the one making ridiculous proposals, either, or claiming to know "exactly what they need".
I do know what the Canucks need, as do most Canuck fans as we watch the team. Not sure what is so controversial or difficult to understand on your end about that. I can't dumb it down any further for you...
Holymakinaw
Registered User
TheDoldrums
Registered User
Toronto doesn't want to fill those needs. They also are desperate for young RHD options, they have been for the entire Matthews era. Now they have finally have Liljegren in the NHL and performing well after many years of development. Their RHD depth outside of him is Justin Holl and Lyubushkin, so they're not going to trade Niemela when he's the only long-term solution.
Diamonddog01
Diamond in the rough
Perfect
. As I said, these teams are clearly not a fit and do not make suitable trading partners.There's no such thing as "needing" a specific prospect, at least amongst intelligent GMs.
You can "need" prospects / futures in general, or you can "need" X type of player to contribute to your lineup today, but teams do not "shop for X type of prospect.
If they're shopping for prospects, it's all about quality/quantity, as you don't know what your needs are going to be when that prospect begins to make significan contributions at the NHL level.
Yes, in a perfect world, you as a canuck fan wants to see them get a 10-year partner for Quinn Hughes. The reality is, Quinn Hughes' partner is probably more likely to change every couple of years than to have 2 guys " tied at the hip. It's also likely to be somebody older than him for at least the next 3-4 years.
Diamonddog01
Diamond in the rough
So Vancouver doesn't need RS defensive defenders, especially as they are exploring (reportedly) trading Myers? You're using phrasing that distorts what I'm saying and getting hung up on semantics.
But anyways we need a few types or however you want to express it. What we don't want for our best / 2nd best player is quantity. A bunch of spare parts isn't an appropriate return, and quite frankly none of the Leafs prospects mentioned are a good enough return. Very few Vancouver fans are onboard with Toronto 1st, Kerfoot and Liljegren or whatever the latest most popular offer is. Toronto is also lacking in RS depth and should retain their young players like Liljegren and Niemala, which again aren't really an appropriate return for a player of Miller's caliber in the first place. Vancouver should and hopefully are exploring a trade with Los Angeles, who can actually afford the rightfully high cost of Miller.
Holymakinaw
Registered User
Shhh........some anonymous poster with a fake name on a hockey forum said otherwise, so it's all sorted.
Diamonddog01
Diamond in the rough
Not sure why you are offended or bothered by the fact that these teams don't make good trading partners. It's self-evident from this thread and all the other recent Van - Tor proposals. Toronto doesn't want to give up their prospects and Vancouver isn't looking for players like Liljegren or Kerfoot. Nothing to get emotional about.
Leafs or any other team will pay what the Nucks want for Miller or they just resign him. The price will be way above what most speculate if he does move as it will most likely be a huge overpayment.
Holymakinaw
Registered User
LOL. I'm not as emotional as you think. I just laugh at people on hockey forums thinking they know things that only GM's know. It is, in fact, laughable.
I have no idea if Toronto & Vancouver make good trading partners. Maybe Toronto REALLY likes a certain player and maybe they're willing to offer a little, or a lot. But the opinions of kids on hockey forums doesn't mean much, as far as the reality of it all.
LOL. I'm not as emotional as you think. I just laugh at people on hockey forums thinking they know things that only GM's know. It is, in fact, laughable.
I have no idea if Toronto & Vancouver make good trading partners. Maybe Toronto REALLY likes a certain player and maybe they're willing to offer a little, or a lot. But the opinions of kids on hockey forums doesn't mean much, as far as the reality of it all.
Well that's good. Holymakinaw has spoken. Shut down the thread. Shut down the forums. Nothing to discuss here!
Diamonddog01
Diamond in the rough
LOL. I'm not as emotional as you think. I just laugh at people on hockey forums thinking they know things that only GM's know. It is, in fact, laughable.
I have no idea if Toronto & Vancouver make good trading partners. Maybe Toronto REALLY likes a certain player and maybe they're willing to offer a little, or a lot. But the opinions of kids on hockey forums doesn't mean much, as far as the reality of it all.
I dunno man, you are using a lot of LOL's and emojis and passive aggression so it does sorta seem that you're weirdly triggered. But literally everything you've said regarding the opinions of "kids" on hockey forums is just as applicable to your posts and opinions fyi. Few on here actually know the inner workings of specific NHL front offices or have any connections, so um yeah, we're all just expressing our opinion on a hockey forum.
Holymakinaw
Registered User
Aha. So you DON'T actually know what the teams needs in the way of prospects. That's all I wanted to hear. Thx Buddy.
lol
Diamonddog01
Diamond in the rough
Aha. So you DON'T actually know what the teams needs in the way of prospects. That's all I wanted to hear. Thx Buddy.
lol
Do you really think that everyone needs to preface their statements on a hockey forum with "I think my team's needs are" or are you just one of those people who need to get the last word in, and feel that they "win" an argument when doing so? In any case this conversation, much like this thread, has run its course. Last word is yours, make it a good one
thusk
Registered User
1- dubas already telling hes not interested tontrade his 1st pick and any one of their best prospect. So toronto will not be an agressive buyer.
2- value of miller, i dont think will be really higher than a mcdonaugh when he was traded to tampa against something look like a late 1st, 1 A prospect + 1 B prospect
3- not sure nucks are really active to trade miller. Maybe depend of if miller is interested to sign long term or not.
2- value of miller, i dont think will be really higher than a mcdonaugh when he was traded to tampa against something look like a late 1st, 1 A prospect + 1 B prospect
3- not sure nucks are really active to trade miller. Maybe depend of if miller is interested to sign long term or not.
Sparksrus3
Registered User
- Jun 2, 2012
- 10,085
- 4,978
Aha. So you DON'T actually know what the teams needs in the way of prospects. That's all I wanted to hear. Thx Buddy.
lol
Your credibility for any thing that requires thought dried up when you said Miller was 1/10th of Marner.
I don't believe any Leafs fan has identified a single "untouchable" prospect. The challenge comes in with how many of those top prospects are being asked for.
As for the Canucks, you've got fans who seemingly write off everyone on Toronto because they're not a future top 6 C, or big-bodied, right shot defenceman to be a theoretically identical partner to Hughes.
GMs do not operate in such a narrow vacuum. There are needs today, which can be specific (like a better partner than Luke Schenn), and there are needs for the future, which are primarily focused on getting quality / quantity / future NHL talent.
Let's say Justin Barron is offered from Colorado. He's probably a year away from making the jump to the NHL, and 2-3 away from any sort of meaningful contribution; and those of course have massive IFs that go with any prospect. If you want Hughes to be "free" -- you generally don't pair him with a rookie/sophomore player.
Sure, if the deals are otherwise equal, and based on your scouting you think Barron is a likely really good NHL player, then maybe you go that way, but today's positional needs really are a very minimal factor when you're trading for futures.
They absoluely do -- but you're missing a key word in that sentence, which is NHL / top 4 / top 2 right shot defensive defenders. If Seattle is trading Larsson, Chicago trading Murphy, New Jersey trading Severson, or Carolina trading Pesce; then absolutely something to think about. The challenge with 3 of those teams of course -- is that they're bad / not likely to be interested in Miller, while I think Pesce is too important to Carolina.
With respect to the quantity vs. quality argument, you should get a quantity of quality for Miller. A 1st round pick, a top prospect, another lesser asset, and possibly a cap-filler / player that can contribute something today.
Many Vancouver fans object to whatever the latest flavour of Robertson/Liljegren as "the top prospect" -- but don't really come up with a "better top prospect" from another team.
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I remember rabid fans claiming Timothy Liljegren would be a 1D by his draft +2/3 year. And that Jeremy Bracco was a star player that was just stuck behind Marner/Nylander & would thrive on another team. Also, Travis Dermott was untouchable early in his career. When's the last time the scouting staff actually drafted a star player outside of a top-8 pick?
Based on recent history, I don't think the Leafs' prospect pool is as deep as some think it is.
Based on recent history, I don't think the Leafs' prospect pool is as deep as some think it is.
And therein is a perfect example of why it's important that the Canucks get multiple pieces, not just one guy.
With respect to the Leafs drafting prowess, it's important to consider that if you exclude the top 8 picks (where the Leafs certainly "hit" on all 3), the Leafs have had a pretty good success rate since 2015. Look at the selections:
2015: Dermott @ 34 - NHL player, Bracco at 61 - bust
2016: Korshkov @ 31 - Bust, Grundstrom at 57 - NHL player
2017: Liljegren @ 17 - Slightly disappointing NHL player, Rasanen at 59 - Bust
2018: Sandin @ 29 - NHL player, Durzi at 52 - NHL player
2019: Robertson @ 53 - exploded for offence in his post-draft year, certainly seems on track to find a spot in the NHL.
Overall, that's 9 players drafted in either the 2nd half of the first round or second round. They've got 5 NHL players out of it, probably 6 with Robertson; and really, only one of those NHLers could be classified as a "disappointment". No "stars" to speak of (although I'd argue that Robertson certainly has the potential to flirt with that), but they have been pretty consistent.
