Proposal: Miller to TOR (again)

[EP to Kuzmenko]

Pts by 60 minute played at 5v5

Miller 2.07

Nylander 2.22
Tavares 2.05

Miller is a better pp producer, thats it and its not really an area toronto really need to upgrade...

I'd say that this proves Miller is better than Tavares in every aspect of the game the last 3 years, making less than half the salary.

 

[Mergatroidskittle]

Muzzin, arguably, got more then either of Stone, or Pacioretty. Hell, Tatar, Zucker, Kapanen, Mantha, Pageau, O'Reilly or Duchene all got more than Pacioretty or Stone (although in fairness to Stone, calling Branstrom, one of two assets with Lindberg, a "top 30" prospect is incredibly dishonest and disingenuous to how he was viewed at the time: https://hfboards.mandatory.com/posts/15720209999 ).

Hall got three prospects, a first and a possible second, and Miller is outperforming Hall over the same amount of time with New Jersey.

Cherry picking two trades doesn't devalue all the other trades in recent history.

Also not taking into account stagnant cap

 

[thusk]

Holl is literally a healthy scratch

Not making scehnn a better player...
if its your main critera, last 3 season schenn missed more game than holl on healthy scratch. Its the 1st season in the last 5 years than schenn is a regular dman on a NHL team but yeah he should magically become a top 4 dman at 32...

 

[Cogburn]

Strawman? You brought it up.



Presently, he has played more games than those players, thus he has scored more.


I'm not asking who has more points. I am asking who is a better scoring forward in the NHL.



His durability is another factor that is most certainly important. The fact that he plays more games, however, does not make him a better scorer.

Look, you and I are getting hung up on semantics. If you were to say that Miller has more value because he's damn good and can stay healthy, that's a debatable argument. I'd probably not agree, but it's a valid argument. That's not what we're arguing.

You claimed Miller is not a top 10 scorer, and continue to, and when proven wrong, you alter the your argument to points per game being more valid. I accused you of moving the goal posts and you doubled down. You said they don't award the Art Ross or Richard for 10th place, which they don't, and was never my position. You made up an argument you could win, ie a strawman argument. My point was that the league recognizes total goals and points, not PPG or GPG. There is no way you could have missed that point that badly, short of being a troll or a spambot. So I'm done trying to explain that 2>1, I don't own the right colours of crayons to explain basic math and logic to you further.

 

[DougGilmour93]

I'm still sticking with my proposal.

To Toronto
JT Miller at 50% for this year and next year (2.6M)
Schenn

To Vancouver
Liljegren
Niemela
2022 1st

1st in 22
2nd in 24
Robertson
Kral
Holl

 

[Halakitlikethat]

Don’t know why Toronto would trade their best assets for Miller. Is he a defenseman? They need help on D especially if Muzzin is out long term .

 

[LeafSteel]

So, gutting our organization of present and future talent and ELC’s, for a player at a position that is not our most glaring weakness?

No.

That is all.

Just

No

 

[LeafSteel]

I'm still sticking with my proposal.

To Toronto
JT Miller at 50% for this year and next year (2.6M)
Schenn

To Vancouver
Liljegren
Niemela
2022 1st

Can Miller play RHD?……because you’ve left us with no one other than Brodie to play it….

No.

 

[DS7]

The thing about buying Miller today is you have him for two shots at playoffs. And the option to flip him for a 1st+ the following year if this year doesn't work out. So of course we'll ask for a big premium.

Regardless of price, I just don't think we're good trade partners. Leafs and Nucks both need RHD haha.

 

[Man Bear Pig]

I'd say that this proves Miller is better than Tavares in every aspect of the game the last 3 years, making less than half the salary.

He makes half because he hasn't hit free agency yet.

 

[Cogburn]

To VAN:
Nick Robertson
Timothy Liljegren
Pierre Engvall
Topi Niemelä
Ty Voit
1st round pick 2022
2nd round pick 2023

To TOR:
J.T. Miller
Luke Schenn

Muzzin and stone is pretty similar.

Tatar is worst than.pacioretty

And anyway that change nothing how many trade you see 2 top 30 prospect+ 1st late pick+ 2nd pick + a 22 regular dman close of being a top 4 + third line foward vs a player... seriously it look like of mcdavid value if he request a trade.

Branstrom was one of the leagues top prospects, so I don't think Stone and Muzzin's returns were similar at all.

Tatar is a worse player, but he still got a first, second and third the year prior to the Pacioretty trade, which is what I'm referring to, but his inclusion was that of a cap balance, similar to what I'd value Kerfoot (as an example) of being. A piece made redundant by the trade and too expensive to keep in a lesser role, given his performance on the Knights. The return was essentially Suzuki and a second,
with Tatar not holding the value of what he became later, or previously.

Hall to Arizona (two conditional 1sts, Schnarr, Bahl and Merkley) and Duchene to Ottawa (Hammond, Bowers, Kamanev, Girard, a first, second and third), both of whom were only younger by a year I think. Bahl and Merkley or Kamenev and Bowers are no Robertson and Niemla, but the picks involved were definitely expected to be higher than Toronto's. Engvall and Voit are fillers here too.

One thehockeywriters' Leafs guy article, opinion piece really, doesn't make a prospect that valuable to other teams either. I'm not accusing the author of trying to get more clicks by using the Leafs fan base love of their prospects (although, that is sports journalism of late) but of course he will puff up prospects he's more familiar with. Roberston's value is hyperinflated due to his brothers season, despite his small size and already extensive injury history. I also fail to see how Niemla got into the top 30 on that article, while guys like Schneider, Lundkvist and Faber didn't. For arguments sake though, how about we call them the Leafs top two prospects.

Not that I advocate this trade, I want substance and need far more then just adding pieces onto a deal, and Toronto's three top pieces are attractive, I agree this is not the deal they should make. But most of the counter offers here the Canucks shouldn't make either.

 

[Donuts]

Keep it simple

Dickinson for leafs 1st

 

[Nucklehead Supreme]

1st in 22
2nd in 24
Robertson
Kral
Holl

No thanks from a Canucks fan. Don't think we make good trading partners.

 

[M2Beezy]

To VAN:
Nick Robertson
Timothy Liljegren
Pierre Engvall
Topi Niemelä
Ty Voit
1st round pick 2022
2nd round pick 2023

To TOR:
J.T. Miller
Luke Schenn

Im such a Sheldon Cooper fan that I just cant say no to two of your proposals

 

[Deadly Dogma]

No thanks from a Canucks fan. Don't think we make good trading partners.

We actually make really good trade partners. We are 1 of the clubs willing to send our top prospects.
I say 2023 1st(unprotected)+Lilj+Neimela+2022 2nd for Miller+Shenn both @50%
then trade 2022 1st+Robertson for Manson @50%

 

[Fatass]

We actually make really good trade partners. We are 1 of the clubs willing to send our top prospects.
I say 2023 1st(unprotected)+Lilj+Neimela+2022 2nd for Miller+Shenn both @50%
then trade 2022 1st+Robertson for Manson @50%

Miller for Marner is fair. Leafs clear five mil off their cap too.

 

[Vancouver_2010]

Keep it simple

Dickinson for leafs 1st

leafs needs to add

Replying to the original proposal, i think its a fair deal. not sure how that could help the leafs though, i thought defense is where they need help.

 

[Nucklehead Supreme]

We actually make really good trade partners. We are 1 of the clubs willing to send our top prospects.
I say 2023 1st(unprotected)+Lilj+Neimela+2022 2nd for Miller+Shenn both @50%
then trade 2022 1st+Robertson for Manson @50%

yah I feel like that could work, I find it hard to believe the Leafs would give that up.

How has Lilj worked out so far? I haven't paid enough attention

 

[thusk]

Branstrom was one of the leagues top prospects, so I don't think Stone and Muzzin's returns were similar at all.

Tatar is a worse player, but he still got a first, second and third the year prior to the Pacioretty trade, which is what I'm referring to, but his inclusion was that of a cap balance, similar to what I'd value Kerfoot (as an example) of being. A piece made redundant by the trade and too expensive to keep in a lesser role, given his performance on the Knights. The return was essentially Suzuki and a second,
with Tatar not holding the value of what he became later, or previously.

Hall to Arizona (two conditional 1sts, Schnarr, Bahl and Merkley) and Duchene to Ottawa (Hammond, Bowers, Kamanev, Girard, a first, second and third), both of whom were only younger by a year I think. Bahl and Merkley or Kamenev and Bowers are no Robertson and Niemla, but the picks involved were definitely expected to be higher than Toronto's. Engvall and Voit are fillers here too.

One thehockeywriters' Leafs guy article, opinion piece really, doesn't make a prospect that valuable to other teams either. I'm not accusing the author of trying to get more clicks by using the Leafs fan base love of their prospects (although, that is sports journalism of late) but of course he will puff up prospects he's more familiar with. Roberston's value is hyperinflated due to his brothers season, despite his small size and already extensive injury history. I also fail to see how Niemla got into the top 30 on that article, while guys like Schneider, Lundkvist and Faber didn't. For arguments sake though, how about we call them the Leafs top two prospects.

Not that I advocate this trade, I want substance and need far more then just adding pieces onto a deal, and Toronto's three top pieces are attractive, I agree this is not the deal they should make. But most of the counter offers here the Canucks shouldn't make either.

Niemela dominated sm-liiga... he was 2nd amount all d at 19 with the same amount of points than hintz at the same age. Already won best d on iihf tournment at 18. Rank him at 10 or 35 that doesnt change the fact hes an elite prospect.

Robertson value came from the fact he dominated the ohl. He get better stats than his brother at 19 when nick was at 18. For the small sample of ahl we had from nick in ahl, at the same age he still have a better production, just like that...

 

[Deadly Dogma]

Miller for Marner is fair. Leafs clear five mil off their cap too.

no thank you, we are trying to add to the team for a shot at the 2nd round

yah I feel like that could work, I find it hard to believe the Leafs would give that up.

How has Lilj worked out so far? I haven't paid enough attention

Lilj has some really nice offensive potential but he is still in the stage where coaching staff is getting him to play the boring game.
Lilj is still prone to bad choices when rushed but outside of that, if the cuffs are taken off I can see a solid offensive top 4 guy.
I would say he is defensively equal to Hughes but way way way behind offensively but doesn't mean he is bad..just that Hughes is really good.
Personally I am surprised you guys don't want Dermott.
I think Dermott and Lilj would be a great addition. I see them both being solid top 4 guys in a cpl yrs(still need time to learn when to go for the pinch, make the stretch pass etc)

 

[Fatass]

no thank you, we are trying to add to the team for a shot at the 2nd round


Lilj has some really nice offensive potential but he is still in the stage where coaching staff is getting him to play the boring game.
Lilj is still prone to bad choices when rushed but outside of that, if the cuffs are taken off I can see a solid offensive top 4 guy.
I would say he is defensively equal to Hughes but way way way behind offensively but doesn't mean he is bad..just that Hughes is really good.
Personally I am surprised you guys don't want Dermott.
I think Dermott and Lilj would be a great addition. I see them both being solid top 4 guys in a cpl yrs(still need time to learn when to go for the pinch, make the stretch pass etc)

Marner or no deal.
Best player for best player.

 

[Just a Fan]

Miller for Marner is fair. Leafs clear five mil off their cap too.

Lol…all I’ve heard is how Miller has been better than the World for the last 3 years…well let’s compare the last 6 years of Marner and Miller and tell me how that trade is “fair”. Ya, you win the contract argument for 1 more year…now let’s talk about point production and age.


Hell, let’s use your 3 years…

Marner 156 games 182 points
Miller 173 games 175 points

 

[Just a Fan]

Marner or no deal.
Best player for best player.

Not sure what the Canucks would be adding to upgrade to Marner, but I doubt the Leafs would accept it.

 

[Fatass]

Lol…all I’ve heard is how Miller has been better than the World for the last 3 years…well let’s compare the last 6 years of Marner and Miller and tell me how that trade is “fair”. Ya, you win the contract argument for 1 more year…now let’s talk about point production and age.


Hell, let’s use your 3 years…

Marner 156 games 182 points
Miller 173 games 175 points

five million different in cap. And that cheaper guy is bigger, tougher, meaner, and a centre.

 

[Holymakinaw]

Not disagreeing with you but
5 million or 2.5 at %50 retains >>>>> $10 million and injury concern

LMAO. Not when that 5M guy is 1/10th the player that the 10M guy is. And he's not at all injured anymore.