Proposal: Miller to TOR (again)

[Fatass]

I remember rabid fans claiming Timothy Liljegren would be a 1D by his draft +2/3 year. And that Jeremy Bracco was a star player that was just stuck behind Marner/Nylander & would thrive on another team. Also, Travis Dermott was untouchable early in his career. When's the last time the scouting staff actually drafted a star player outside of a top-8 pick?

Based on recent history, I don't think the Leafs' prospect pool is as deep as some think it is.

The Leafs don't have the young assets to land Miller so they would need to give up Marner. And the Canucks can't fit Marner under their cap. There is just no way these two teams can work a deal for Miller.

 

[Nucker101]

Miller is worth about 7-10 Nick Folignos

 

[gianni]

Leafs have had a pretty good success rate since 2015. Look at the selections:

2015: Dermott @ 34 - NHL player, Bracco at 61 - bust
2016: Korshkov @ 31 - Bust, Grundstrom at 57 - NHL player
2017: Liljegren @ 17 - Slightly disappointing NHL player, Rasanen at 59 - Bust
2018: Sandin @ 29 - NHL player, Durzi at 52 - NHL player
2019: Robertson @ 53 - exploded for offence in his post-draft year, certainly seems on track to find a spot in the NHL.

Overall, that's 9 players drafted in either the 2nd half of the first round or second round. They've got 5 NHL players out of it, probably 6 with Robertson; and really, only one of those NHLers could be classified as a "disappointment". No "stars" to speak of (although I'd argue that Robertson certainly has the potential to flirt with that), but they have been pretty consistent.

None of those guys move the needle at all for JT Miller. Canucks have a bunch of players in the pipeline of that calibre & lost some due to waivers.

Canucks since 2015 (w/ the same parameters):

2015: Brock Boeser @ 23, Adam Gaudette @ 149, Guillaume Brisebois @ 66.
2016: Will Lockwood @ 64.
2017: Jonah Gadjovich @ 55, Jack Rathbone @ 95, Kole Lind @ 33, Mike DiPietro @ 64.
2019: Nils Hoglander @ 40.

Boeser & Hoglander are v good full-timers, Rathbone, DiPietro, & Lockwood may have full-time spots soon, Gaudette, Gadjovich & Lind got picked up by other teams, Brisebois is likely a depth guy.

Also have high hopes for Aidan Mcdonough, Jett Woo, and Arturs Silovs.
Danila Klimovich, Linus Karlsson, Dmitry Zlodeyev, Joni Jurmo, Viktor Persson all have a shot at developing into NHLers as well.

 

[TheDoldrums]

2017: Liljegren @ 17 - Slightly disappointing NHL player]

Which part of his rookie season is most disappointing, him holding his own defensively at 22 or his nice offensive production without any PP time? What a bizarre mischaracterization.

He's only disappointing if you're still hung up on the hype from when he was 16/17. Otherwise it's pretty clear he's had a steady development as a pro that has resulted in a nice rookie season at the NHL level so far.

 

[seanlinden]

None of those guys move the needle at all for JT Miller. Canucks have a bunch of players in the pipeline of that calibre & lost some due to waivers.

If we go by THW's top 100 list; Robertson is 20, Niemla 29, Liljegren off the list due to no longer being a prospect.

If a top 20 prospect + 1st round isn't good enough to "move the needle" for Miller, I have to ask, what prospect is? It's not like m(any) of the names above Robertson on the list are likely going to be offered -- they're either too important / good, or held by bad teams.

 

[seanlinden]

Which part of his rookie season is most disappointing, him holding his own defensively at 22 or his nice offensive production without any PP time? What a bizarre mischaracterization.

He's only disappointing if you're still hung up on the hype from when he was 16/17. Otherwise it's pretty clear he's had a steady development as a pro that has resulted in a nice rookie season at the NHL level so far.

The part where we're in his draft + 5 season and he still isn't a full time NHLer. When a guy is drafted in the teens, goes straight to the AHL, generally one would expect to see him a full time NHLer after a year or two in the AHL.

 

[Just a Fan]

I

Miller is worth about 7-10 Nick Folignos

Or 1 Adam Larsson (as I have seen him compared to a young Hall).

 

[Edgelord]

If we go by THW's top 100 list; Robertson is 20, Niemla 29, Liljegren off the list due to no longer being a prospect.

If a top 20 prospect + 1st round isn't good enough to "move the needle" for Miller, I have to ask, what prospect is? It's not like m(any) of the names above Robertson on the list are likely going to be offered -- they're either too important / good, or held by bad teams.

sometimes after sooo many years and seeing the same thing over and over it gets funny
let me paint you a picture
Miller+Schenn@50% for 2022 1st+3rd+Robertson+Dermott
when it happens Vancouver fans are gonna say its not enough.
Now after next season Dermott is a top 4 for Van and Robertson is breaking out and all we will get to hear is crap like thx Toronto hahaha bad trade lol

 

[TheDoldrums]

The part where we're in his draft + 5 season and he still isn't a full time NHLer. When a guy is drafted in the teens, goes straight to the AHL, generally one would expect to see him a full time NHLer after a year or two in the AHL.

You expect an 18 year old defenseman drafted mid-1st round to be a full time NHLer on a good team a year or two later? Okay then, I bet you're disappointed quite often.

Anyways Liljegren has played in most of the Leafs games, has good underlying numbers and offensive production, he's not disappointing and how long he took to develop doesn't influence my assessment of him as a NHL player.

 

[Holymakinaw]

Your credibility for any thing that requires thought dried up when you said Miller was 1/10th of Marner.

LMAO. You should maybe check again......because I never said that! We were talking about EICHEL.

(Although he IS about 1/8th of Marner. )

 

[elitepete]

sometimes after sooo many years and seeing the same thing over and over it gets funny
let me paint you a picture
Miller+Schenn@50% for 2022 1st+3rd+Robertson+Dermott
when it happens Vancouver fans are gonna say its not enough.
Now after next season Dermott is a top 4 for Van and Robertson is breaking out and all we will get to hear is crap like thx Toronto hahaha bad trade lol

Just like how Bracco, Leipsic, Nielsen, Leivo etc. were all supposed to become amazing players.

 

[TheDoldrums]

Just like how Bracco, Leipsic, Nielsen, Leivo etc. were all supposed to become amazing players.

Also have high hopes for Aidan Mcdonough, Jett Woo, and Arturs Silovs.
Danila Klimovich, Linus Karlsson, Dmitry Zlodeyev, Joni Jurmo, Viktor Persson all have a shot at developing into NHLers as well.

 

[elitepete]

Difference is we're not forcing these players down everyones throats on the trade board.

"YOU WILL TAKE TRAVIS DERMOTT AND LIKE IT"

 

[TheDoldrums]

Difference is we're not forcing these players down everyones throats on the trade board.

"YOU WILL TAKE TRAVIS DERMOTT AND LIKE IT"

don't worry you will be if you ever get good enough to be buyers instead of sellers

 

[elitepete]

don't worry you will be if you ever get good enough to be buyers instead of sellers

We were "buyers" a couple years ago and won more rounds than the leafs have in like 20ish years so

 

[Hockey 4 Life]

Atleast Miller has proven his worth, so a large package is justifiable, unlike Chychurn who is the most overrated player league wide. Still wouldnt trade for Miller though, way to much for 1.5 years.

 

[TheDoldrums]

We were "buyers" a couple years ago and won more rounds than the leafs have in like 20ish years so

im weird because im a soccer fan so i value the regular season more than most i guess, but id be miserable watching a bad team every year. ngl i didn't even realize it was this bad, you guys have missed the playoffs 5 out of the last 6 years??? its not that hard to make the postseason ffs. personally i would rather have the day to day enjoyment of watching a good team win more often than they lose and choke every playoffs than watching a constantly watching a bad team that won a couple rounds one year. thats me tho.

 

[elitepete]

im weird because im a soccer fan so i value the regular season more than most i guess, but id be miserable watching a bad team every year. ngl i didn't even realize it was this bad, you guys have missed the playoffs 5 out of the last 6 years??? its not that hard to make the postseason ffs. personally i would rather have the day to day enjoyment of watching a good team win more often than they lose and choke every playoffs than watching a constantly watching a bad team that won a couple rounds one year. thats me tho.

If you don't win the cup or at the very least have a deep playoff run, it doesn't matter. Regular season success doesn't mean anything. That enjoyment you get from watching Matthews and Marner fill the other teams net with goals is offset by how bad they choke in the playoffs.

 

[seanlinden]

You expect an 18 year old defenseman drafted mid-1st round to be a full time NHLer on a good team a year or two later? Okay then, I bet you're disappointed quite often.

Anyways Liljegren has played in most of the Leafs games, has good underlying numbers and offensive production, he's not disappointing and how long he took to develop doesn't influence my assessment of him as a NHL player.

When he goes to the AHL at 18, then yeah... maybe give him 3 years down there but the reality is, he's had 4, and is still not an everyday player.

He's got good numbers, and may still pan out to be a really, really good top 4 defenceman that borderlines on top 2, but so far, there's nothing wrong with saying he hasn't really progressed as one drafted in his position, and who played at the AHL level at 18, would hope for.

 

[gianni]

Difference is we're not forcing these players down everyones throats on the trade board.

"YOU WILL TAKE TRAVIS DERMOTT AND LIKE IT"

Exactly. And I'm not delusional enough to think Aidan Mcdonough & Danila Klimovich can fetch a JT Miller calibre player, so it's not even close to being the same.... Mcdonough/Klimovich might be able to crack the top-9, in a 3rd banana-type role.

"Jeremy Bracco is stuck behind Marner & Nylander, he'd be a star player on any other team" FOH

 

[seanlinden]

Difference is we're not forcing these players down everyones throats on the trade board.

"YOU WILL TAKE TRAVIS DERMOTT AND LIKE IT"

To be fair, I don't think anyone is advocating for Travis Dermott to represent a "material portion" of the value of the deal. Most Leafs-proposed deals he's the 3rd or 4th most valuable piece.

That being said, he is a guy who would almost certainly benefit from a change of scenery, even if it is to bring a really high quality #3 left defenceman behind Hughes & OEL.

 

[Hockey 4 Life]

Leafs don't need a player as good as Miller for their second line. They need a solid top 4 d and maybe an upgrade on kerfoot. There are many players skill wise and impact between kerfoot and Miller.

 

[Buzzman17]

Bunting and a 2nd for Miller at 50% retention.

 

[Leaf Fans]

Difference is we're not forcing these players down everyones throats on the trade board.

"YOU WILL TAKE TRAVIS DERMOTT AND LIKE IT"

No one has.

 

[Nucklehead Supreme]

Leafs don't need a player as good as Miller for their second line. They need a solid top 4 d and maybe an upgrade on kerfoot. There are many players skill wise and impact between kerfoot and Miller.

Awesome, share this with the rest of your fanbase and let them know they can stop making proposals for Miller.