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Mike Richards IV: Started From The Bottom, Still Here *MOD WARNING Post #194*

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KINGS17 said:
These are the cap hit figures on a Richards buy out if it occurs this summer. You can see that a buy out gives Dean a lot more flexibility over the next 3 seasons than having Richards on the roster. No doubt 2018-19 and 2019-20 are ugly, but it's the cost of doing business (winning cups) at this point and the result of a bad decision last summer. Everyone knows that a trade with some salary retention is desirable. Let's see if Dean can swing a deal, but if he can't his only option is a buy out IMO.

All dollars in millions
salary cap hit savings new cap hit
2015-16 6.00 5.75 4.78 0.97
2016-17 5.50 5.75 4.28 1.47
2017-18 4.50 5.75 3.28 2.47
2018-19 3.00 5.75 1.78 3.97
2019-20 3.00 5.75 1.78 3.97
2020-2027 -1.22 1.22
total 22.00 28.75

Buyout total (2/3) $14.67M
spread over 12 yrs 1.22
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I completely understand why teams don't want Richards cap hit, but if the Kings retain some salary, teams like Edmonton and Toronto should aim to get him in a trade. Those teams are clearly lacking in leadership and need someone like Richards onboard.
 
kingsfan said:
But Apollo gave up boxing to be a golfer, lost his hand to a gator and then fell out of a window and died. Richards will need to find the eye of the tiger on his own.
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Rfeoi9B.jpg
 
KINGS17 said:
As I said, Shore is trending in the right direction. His minutes, the responsibilities that Sutter is giving him are all increasing. Stoll now is trending in the wrong direction after pretty much treading water earlier in the season, and Richards was trending in the wrong direction for quite some time.

Shore is a significant upgrade over Richards at this point in time. Give Sutter a player that he can trust, and Sutter will figure out a way to maximize that player's effectiveness and impact on the game.

What's your argument going to be when Shore starts getting 15 minutes a game?
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Trending in the right direction is not a significant upgrade. What are we doing here, saying he's an upgrade because of what he will do later this season, potentially?

When Shore hits 15 minutes, at that time yeah, he likely is a big upgrade. He's not NOW. This second, right now. He's a decent player who can burn 10 minutes a game without hurting you. That's not a significant upgrade. That's a 4th liner with upside.
 
kingsfan said:
Trending in the right direction is not a significant upgrade. What are we doing here, saying he's an upgrade because of what he will do later this season, potentially?

When Shore hits 15 minutes, at that time yeah, he likely is a big upgrade. He's not NOW. This second, right now. He's a decent player who can burn 10 minutes a game without hurting you. That's not a significant upgrade. That's a 4th liner with upside.
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No, I am saying that right now, Shore is a better player than Mike Richards. The more he demonstrates that and especially his ability on the forecheck along with being defensively responsible in his own zone, the more minutes Sutter is going to give him. His potential has nothing to do with it (even though Shore will get better as time goes on and he gains more confidence), because Shore is the better player today.

It takes time for Sutter to give the young guys more responsibility, because he wants to put them in a situation where they can succeed.

Right now, Mike Richards, based on his performance before he was sent down, is a 4th liner with plenty of downside.
 
Ron said:
Can't wait until the Kings call Richards up for the playoffs.

Gonna call the police over to your house to have you put on suicide watch.
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:laugh:

So much negativity....

Seems like a lot of people here are freaking out about the Kings ability to compete for another championship in the next couple of years.

-Buyout of Richards.... cap penalty for 10 years... couple of the years the penalty getting into the 3-4 million mark.... this just isn't going to happen.

-Trading Richards and replacing him with a veteran 3C... sure sounds good... First problem is salary retention. Vet 3C salary (around 3m) + retained salary is going to be very close to what Richards is making now.

-Some of the available UFA vets this year... Going off NHL numbers
S. Horcoff 36
T. Fleischmann 31
M. Fisher 35
A. Vermette 32
M. Cullen 38
M. Frolik 27
J. Stoll 33
R. Peverley 32
T. Kopecky 33
J. Tlusty 27

Keep in mind the Kings have to put in a competitive offer to attract a UFA and would still have the money retained on Richards. The cap is the issue here.

-Lombardi could always take back say a Clarkson contract for Richards, but moving Richards salary to pick up a Clarkson type contract isn't fixing anything.

At This Point it isn't about what Lombardi "should have done", it's about the best path forward. For me the best situation would be to see if Richards can make a comeback in the next year or 2. Richards has more upside then anyone the Kings are going to sign for 3M (+2M retained)... Anyways looking at the cap space and roster for next year, it looks that if Richards is moved the money is going to be used on Defense making the 3C a hole needing to be filled at the deadline if one of Richards/Shore/Weal/Porky can't fill it from within.

Brown: People haven't been complaining about him because it is way to scary given the length of his contract if his play continues the way it has since his knee injury.
 
AlphaBravo said:
I am surprised that Sutter has kept Shore up for so long. It says a lot. I remember Toffoli was constantly brought up and down before he became a regular. Pearson as well.
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It isn't surprising at all... just got to look at it the right way. Shore no goals... means a constant roster spot and not getting jerked around...

Stone Hands Lewis, Can't score to save his life (unless Gibson is in net :laugh:)... Constantly rewarded with increased ice time. Sutter may start jerking Lewis around, in the future, as it seems he's started to score this year!
 
KINGS17 said:
No, I am saying that right now, Shore is a better player than Mike Richards. The more he demonstrates that and especially his ability on the forecheck along with being defensively responsible in his own zone, the more minutes Sutter is going to give him. His potential has nothing to do with it (even though Shore will get better as time goes on and he gains more confidence), because Shore is the better player today.

It takes time for Sutter to give the young guys more responsibility, because he wants to put them in a situation where they can succeed.

Right now, Mike Richards, based on his performance before he was sent down, is a 4th liner with plenty of downside.
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Except the unbiased evidence(stats) disagree with you. Shore is playing against easier competition, with nearly 2/3rds of his shifts in the offensive side of the ice and the opposition still has more possession of the puck when he's on the ice vs. what Mike Richards did this season.

http://www.behindthenet.ca/nhl_stat...3+5+4+6+7+8+13+14+29+30+32+33+34+45+46+63+67#

You're letting your personal bias dictate your opinion.

Shore is not there yet.
 
Trolfoli said:
It isn't surprising at all... just got to look at it the right way. Shore no goals... means a constant roster spot and not getting jerked around...

Stone Hands Lewis, Can't score to save his life (unless Gibson is in net :laugh:)... Constantly rewarded with increased ice time. Sutter may start jerking Lewis around, in the future, as it seems he's started to score this year!
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I agree. Shore has earned his place in the lineup. Thats why I said its telling that Sutter has kept him up for so long.
 
KINGS17 said:
No, I am saying that right now, Shore is a better player than Mike Richards. The more he demonstrates that and especially his ability on the forecheck along with being defensively responsible in his own zone, the more minutes Sutter is going to give him. His potential has nothing to do with it (even though Shore will get better as time goes on and he gains more confidence), because Shore is the better player today.

It takes time for Sutter to give the young guys more responsibility, because he wants to put them in a situation where they can succeed.

Right now, Mike Richards, based on his performance before he was sent down, is a 4th liner with plenty of downside.
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Which if that is how you feeling, it's fine. But none of that is a 'significant' upgrade, which was my point all along. It's potentially a significant upgrade, potentially even later this season, but as we stand right here and now, Nick Shore is not there yet. No 10 minute a game player is. Call him an upgrade if not, but he is not a significant upgrade in any way, shape or form.

Thrice said:
Except the unbiased evidence(stats) disagree with you. Shore is playing against easier competition, with nearly 2/3rds of his shifts in the offensive side of the ice and the opposition still has more possession of the puck when he's on the ice vs. what Mike Richards did this season.

http://www.behindthenet.ca/nhl_stat...3+5+4+6+7+8+13+14+29+30+32+33+34+45+46+63+67#

You're letting your personal bias dictate your opinion.

Shore is not there yet.
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He's already told us that "This is a time when statistics are not your friend." and "I don't need stats." It's all in the eye test man.
 
I was a big non believer in shore when he was called up. thought it was a massive mistake and when Richards was unclaimed I thought shore should go back and richards called backed up.
SHORE'S DEFENSIVE GAME has changed this for me.
I expect a 3rd/4th line to be solid defensively and provide an energy spark for the team. Shore has done this pretty much every game.
 
Perro said:
I was a big non believer in shore when he was called up. thought it was a massive mistake and when Richards was unclaimed I thought shore should go back and richards called backed up.
SHORE'S DEFENSIVE GAME has changed this for me.
I expect a 3rd/4th line to be solid defensively and provide an energy spark for the team. Shore has done this pretty much every game.
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Actually the stats say otherwise, Shore has been sheltered quite a bit, and is still a minus player.

Compared to Richards/Stoll that is.

Other folks, EDM is not interested in Mike Richards,Mac T said this to Richards trades "Not interested at all, in any capacity".
 
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damacles1156 said:
Actually the stats say otherwise, Shore has been sheltered quite a bit, and is still a minus player.

Compared to Richards/Stoll that is.

Other folks, EDM is not interested in Mike Richards,Mac T said this to Richards trades "Not interested at all, in any capacity".
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Considering what is going on over there, he should just use the George Costanza "opposite" method. Whatever his natural instincts tell him to do, he should do the opposite.
 
Anyone else see Dean's interview on the Canucks feed?

"There's very much a possibility that he could be back" -Dean Lombardi on Mike Richards returning this year.
 
CowMix said:
Of course Richards will be back, the real question is will he play.
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This is Mike MF'n Richards were talking about... pure Awesomeness!!!!

If on the other hand he sucks on a call up, then I'll get to read tons of amusing posts by the haters!!!! :laugh:
 
Shore with slightly over 13 minutes tonight, +1, with an assist, and 89% on the dot.

Nah, that's not a significant improvement over what Richards was doing. The kid isn't even improving game-to-game.
 
Reclamation Project said:
Even better than another center currently on the team.
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True, better than BOTH Richards and Stoll. If Sutter wants to sit Stoll and put Richards in the lineup fine, but Richards should not return at Shore's expense.

Not sure that Stoll sucking lately suddenly makes Mike Richards a better hockey player. The only thing that is going to help Richards with the Kings' organization at this point is if he truly put in the work in Manchester, and can play competent defense in his own zone when/if he returns.
 
KINGS17 said:
Shore with slightly over 13 minutes tonight, +1, with an assist, and 89% on the dot.

Nah, that's not a significant improvement over what Richards was doing. The kid isn't even improving game-to-game.
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OMG!!!! A player had a good game that is far different than the previous 20 games!!! That has totally never, ever happened before, ever!!!!!!!!!!!!! Apocalypse!!!!!!!

Get real. Post when he's playing that amount of time on a regular basis. FYI, that's a career high in ice time for him. Yeah, that's a massive improvement for sure.
 
Reclamation Project said:
It doesn't, but it certainly solidifies his role on this team after this season.
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I don't think Richards' role on the Kings is solidified next season if he sucks less than Stoll. Right now, I would say they are both gone.

The only thing that will solidify Richards' role on the team next season is him busting his ass and playing extremely well in his own zone if/when he returns to the lineup.

Otherwise, he will likely be bought out and Dean will be shopping for a #3 center via trade or free agency.
 
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