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Mike Richards IV: Started From The Bottom, Still Here *MOD WARNING Post #194*

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Ollie Weeks said:
Here is what I think.

Mike Richards in a 3rd line, supporting role with decent hockey players is better than Mike Richards in a 4th line grinding role.

Mike Richards in a defensive role may or may not be worse than current Jarret Stoll.

Whatever happens with these two I don't want Shore out of the lineup as a result of any shuffling.
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Ditto.

Shore's making improvement to the point that he, and the other 4th liners, are playing better than the 3rd line. All of those guys deserve minutes. I actually think at this point Richards might play a little better, whether 3rd or 4th line, than Stoll would with the same partners/minutes.
 
You guys will defend this player until the day he is traded or bought out.

How can you compare Stoll, who is always been known as a 3rd line center who can produce about 40 points to a former star player, 1st line center on the Flyers who was an Olympian and is paid almost 6 million?

Or Richards to Shore? A rookie.

Richards shouldn't be in the category of either of these guys...and that's the problem.
 
Johnny Utah said:
You guys will defend this player until the day he is traded or bought out.

How can you compare Stoll, who is always been known as a 3rd line center who can produce about 40 points to a former star player, 1st line center on the Flyers who was an Olympian and is paid almost 6 million?

Or Richards to Shore? A rookie.

Richards shouldn't be in the category of either of these guys...and that's the problem.
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Ratio of what Richards should be to what he is doesn't matter. The hell you talking about? We're comparing players at the same position.
 
Johnny,

Stoll was very highly regarded as a young player and once scored 67 points in the NHL while being an effective defensive player. Not at the level Richards was, but Stoll should not be this bad at age 32.

Richards is currently an AHL player and Stoll's NHL career is hanging on by a thread, and both have been passed up by Shore.

I still think next year the best spot for Shore is 4C with some special teams time mixed in, the Kings desperately need to be looking to add a veteran 3C who can actually be responsible defensively without being a disaster offensively.
 
Agreed with everything Herby said above.

But, on the flip side, I think if you posted in the main board that you are comparing Mike Richards to Jarret Stoll, 99% of the posters will laugh out loud.
 
Johnny Utah said:
Stoll makes just over 3 million and is a UFA.

Richards makes 5.75 million and has 5 more years.

That's an issue right there.
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Well blame Dean for that, not Richards. Richards just signed the contract that Philly offered him and is honoring the contract the Kings chose to keep last summer.

Can't blame the player for an awful management decision.
 
I think most hockey fans will agree Richards should be held to a higher standard for all his success and past play as a Flyer.

Stoll has never been that caliber of player.
 
Johnny Utah said:
I think most hockey fans will agree Richards should be held to a higher standard for all his success and past play as a Flyer.

Stoll has never been that caliber of player.
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Dude, this is an argument a good six months old. Richards cataclysmic decline is something everyone has talked about to death.

What people are talking about now, with the players we have, is who would be better situated at 3C. Both Stoll and Richards are worthless hockey players right now. That's the point.

And Richards IS being held to a higher standard. Dude was ****ing waived while Stoll putters around in the NHL. What more do you want?
 
Herby said:
Stoll was very highly regarded as a young player and once scored 67 points in the NHL while being an effective defensive player. Not at the level Richards was, but Stoll should not be this bad at age 32.
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Stoll was on pace for another 60 point season in 06/07 but suffered a very serious concussion. He never was the same player again.

People also forget that he had a seizure after that cheap shot by Raffi Torres in the playoffs just 20 months ago.

Considering that, I don't think it's too surprising that his play has devolved so much.
 
Stoll's recent play has hit a Mike Richards low. He is starting to also look slow and his defensive awereness is lacking. If Stoll is not careful, Sutter will bench his @ss and move up Shore or Lewis.
 
Johnny Utah said:
You guys will defend this player until the day he is traded or bought out.

How can you compare Stoll, who is always been known as a 3rd line center who can produce about 40 points to a former star player, 1st line center on the Flyers who was an Olympian and is paid almost 6 million?

Or Richards to Shore? A rookie.

Richards shouldn't be in the category of either of these guys...and that's the problem.
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Pointing out how awful Richards/Stoll have played in the role Sutter wants them to play this season; is not defending either guy.

It's pointing out how their careers are likely over on a Cup Contender like the LA Kings. It would be best for the Kings to move on from both Richards and Stoll.
 
kingsofLA said:
Stoll's recent play has hit a Mike Richards low. .
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Offensively it's well beyond Richards level but he still has a long way to go defensively.

I think people (especially the ones on here clamoring for MR return to center the third line) forget just how bad things got with Richards when it came to the defensive side of the game. It was basically becoming a nightly thing where Richards was making massive game changing blunders in the defensive zone and it was costing the Kings in the standings. When Stoll reaches that level and ends up in the AHL it can be compared.
 
Herby said:
Offensively it's well beyond Richards level but he still has a long way to go defensively.

I think people (especially the ones on here clamoring for MR return to center the third line) forget just how bad things got with Richards when it came to the defensive side of the game. It was basically becoming a nightly thing where Richards was making massive game changing blunders in the defensive zone and it was costing the Kings in the standings. When Stoll reaches that level and ends up in the AHL it can be compared.
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Stoll's getting there Defensively, give him the rest of the season, he may overtake Brown for the Green Jacket.

last 20GP -6.

Stoll's problem right now; he is consistently behind the play at all times. It's coasting him at both ends of the ice(just like Richards).

Funny thing about Dustin Brown; escaping criticism for being the worst defensive forward on the team this season. Also Brown looks to be headed toward a 35 point season.

As bad as Richards was in 2013, he still managed to only be a -6. Brown has that beat in spades right now -11.
 
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damacles1156 said:
Stoll's getting there Defensively, give him the rest of the season, he may overtake Brown for the Green Jacket.

last 20GP -6.

Stoll's problem right now; he is consistently behind the play at all times. It's coasting him at both ends of the ice(just like Richards).

Funny thing about Dustin Brown; escaping criticism for being the worst defensive forward on the team this season. Also Brown looks to be headed toward a 35 point season.

As bad as Richards was in 2013, he still managed to only be a -6. Brown has that beat in spades right now -11.
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If there's one person Kings fans don't like criticizing, it's Brown. He's been under the radar awful since the 2013 playoff run and every time it's brought up, people flip out.

If he were a center, people would be talking about him in the same breath as Stoll/Richards.
 
Johnny Utah said:
I think most hockey fans will agree Richards should be held to a higher standard for all his success and past play as a Flyer.

Stoll has never been that caliber of player.
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I don't care what they were I care about what they are, and right now they both are not doing good enough.
It doesn't matter that Ricahrds makes 2.75M more when looking at the roster post trade deadline. Now it's all about whomever is playing better should be getting minutes regardless of past pedigree, contract or length in the league.
In the summer when trying to build the team for next year that's when contract comes into play IMO. right now sutter has his hand and has to play with it the best he can
 
Herby said:
Offensively it's well beyond Richards level but he still has a long way to go defensively.

I think people (especially the ones on here clamoring for MR return to center the third line) forget just how bad things got with Richards when it came to the defensive side of the game. It was basically becoming a nightly thing where Richards was making massive game changing blunders in the defensive zone and it was costing the Kings in the standings. When Stoll reaches that level and ends up in the AHL it can be compared.
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I think 1 or 2 people are "clamoring" for Richards' return, just like there are a some people after his blood. The rest are engaging in a discussion as to the lesser of two evils for the remainder of the season.
 
Perro said:
I don't care what they were I care about what they are, and right now they both are not doing good enough.
It doesn't matter that Ricahrds makes 2.75M more when looking at the roster post trade deadline. Now it's all about whomever is playing better should be getting minutes regardless of past pedigree, contract or length in the league.
In the summer when trying to build the team for next year that's when contract comes into play IMO. right now sutter has his hand and has to play with it the best he can
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Good for thought

No matter what happens as long as Richards is in the Kings there is an automatic 4.3 mil cap hit if he stays in (Manchester). So we save .925000 off the cap.

If we play Richards on the Kings he is a .925000 player. If we resign Stoll he will be North of 2 mil so it is actually cheaper keeping Richards

I don't think Dean will be able to move Richards. On a cash strapped team we have to figure out the best bang for the buck. If Richards takes a spot it's only .925000 actual increase in salary since we are saddled with the 4 plus million even if he is in the minor.

As devils advocate who can we get under .925000 that would be better then Ruchards? Let's hope to hell he gets his conditioning straightened out and comes back ready to earn a spot.
 
funky said:
Good for thought

No matter what happens as long as Richards is in the Kings there is an automatic 4.3 mil cap hit if he stays in (Manchester). So we save .925000 off the cap.

If we play Richards on the Kings he is a .925000 player. If we resign Stoll he will be North of 2 mil so it is actually cheaper keeping Richards

I don't think Dean will be able to move Richards. On a cash strapped team we have to figure out the best bang for the buck. If Richards takes a spot it's only .925000 actual increase in salary since we are saddled with the 4 plus million even if he is in the minor.

As devils advocate who can we get under .925000 that would be better then Ruchards? Let's hope to hell he gets his conditioning straightened out and comes back ready to earn a spot.
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Looking at next year I am 100% with the bolded. It sucks but if Richards cannot be dealt the 4.3M is a sunk cost. So you are right you're looking at Richards @ .925 or another centre at much more.
Where we differ is I still think that with some cap retention that a team may still bite on richards. Maybe I am just delusional though
 
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