Michkov vs Demidov

[Eegs]

Love the whole package that Demidov brings. Elite offensive upside, good size and what appears to be a great attitude.

That said, Michkov is a bit above him if we are ranking them currently. There's just too much statistical data to suggest otherwise.

I'm so very happy we got Ivan though, and expect they will both be top line players when all is said and done.

Edit: Actually, it's going to be super-cool to watch these kids compete against each other in the East. Can't wait!

 

[FlyguyOX]

Man posts like this are embarassing lol. You can get Michkovs in 2nd round too I guess right? Hey you can get Datsyuks in the 6th round too!

Just stop with the nonsense.

It's pretty much known that certain teams wanted to trade with the Habs pick to take Reinbacher so everyone in here needs to take a chill pill. Habs had there reason for not wanting him but ya'll need to stop pretending like were talking about Wayne Gretzky here.


We don't know yet what Reinbacher is in the NHL so how can he claim players like that are drafted in the 2nd round? He had a historic season in NL for a draft eligible player but everyone in here is acting like he's some scrub.

It's proven statistically that D-man have higher bust rates in the 1st, that more impact D-man are found late in the first and later in the draft than impact forwards are. It's facts. Harder to find impact forward after early in the 1st.

 

[Favster]

It's proven statistically that D-man have higher bust rates in the 1st, that more impact D-man are found late in the first and later in the draft than impact forwards are. It's facts. Harder to find impact forward after early in the 1st.

Look at all those elite dmen on current top teams, most of them were picked in the top 10.

 

[Baksfamous112]

It's proven statistically that D-man have higher bust rates in the 1st, that more impact D-man are found late in the first and later in the draft than impact forwards are. It's facts. Harder to find impact forward after early in the 1st.

I’d love to see those stats if you can provide them

 

[TheKrebsCycle]

What does it matter? It happens....

The original poster was just devaluing Reinbacher, by calling him a late 1st/ 2nd rounder type. He was clearly a top 10 pick in his draft year and an organizational need. I would have taken Michkov but that's beside the point, it doesn't change Reinbacher's placing in the draft from top 10 to second rounder. He was going top 6 if we hadn't taken him.

He’s just a very vanilla prospect for that high a pick . Michkov is the exact opposite. Maybe vanilla is the flavor they needed

 

[HabzSauce]

pretty stupid that this rivalry started just because Habs were stupid enough to pass on Michkov.

we passed on Michkov but since we got Demidov let's compare them to make ourselves feel better if Demidov is better.

just be happy with what u got. it all worked out sure u passed on Michkov but u got Reinbacher and now that Demidov dropped to you everything worked out, I just don't get it. who honestly cares if Michkov ends up being better anyways?

Isn't this a michkov vs demidov thread? And wasn't it started months before the 2023 draft - before Habs even had a chance to pick him?

I personally love this debate lol going to be fun to follow both their careers especially the first 3 seasons

 

[TheKrebsCycle]

I’d love to see those stats if you can provide them

Not sure they bust more but typically they take longer .

 

[Arthur Morgan]

Man posts like this are embarassing lol. You can get Michkovs in 2nd round too I guess right? Hey you can get Datsyuks in the 6th round too!

Just stop with the nonsense.

It's pretty much known that certain teams wanted to trade with the Habs pick to take Reinbacher so everyone in here needs to take a chill pill. Habs had there reason for not wanting him but ya'll need to stop pretending like were talking about Wayne Gretzky here.


We don't know yet what Reinbacher is in the NHL so how can he claim players like that are drafted in the 2nd round? He had a historic season in NL for a draft eligible player but everyone in here is acting like he's some scrub.

well if he has potential to be a #1 D that can produce offensively and provide high hit/blocks plays on the PP and PK. those can be found in the late 1st and 2nd round. and prob alot easier to find then a Datsyuk is to find in the 6th

who cares what that guy thinks anywyas. Reinbacher looks solid

Isn't this a michkov vs demidov thread? And wasn't it started months before the 2023 draft - before Habs even had a chance to pick him?

I personally love this debate lol going to be fun to follow both their careers especially the first 3 seasons

I dunno, I didn't even look when it was started but I remember seeing it right after Habs drafted Demidov so I assumed that was the reason the thread was created.

 

[FlyguyOX]

Look at all those elite dmen on current top teams, most of them were picked in the top 10.

https://www.nytimes.com/athletic/1828498/2020/05/21/why-nhl-teams-should-gamble-on-defencemen-over-forwards-later-in-the-draft/

It's part of the reason you never see a heavy analytics team like the hurricanes pick a d-man in the first round.

Non 1st round or outside top 10 in the 1st:
Adam fox, brock faber, Roman josi, Mcavoy (outside top 10), Morrissey (outside top 10), devon toews, Jaccob Slavin, brent burns (outside top 10), brandon montour, gustav forsling, shea theodore (outside top10), K'andre Miller (outside top 10), Mackenzie Weegar, Mattias EKholm, vince dunn, Nikishin...

 

[MNRube]

https://www.nytimes.com/athletic/1828498/2020/05/21/why-nhl-teams-should-gamble-on-defencemen-over-forwards-later-in-the-draft/

View attachment 902790

View attachment 902791

It's part of the reason you never see a heavy analytics team like the hurricanes pick a d-man in the first round.

Non 1st round or outside top 10 in the 1st:
Adam fox, brock faber, Roman josi, Mcavoy (outside top 10), Morrissey (outside top 10), devon toews, Jaccob Slavin, brent burns (outside top 10), brandon montour, gustav forsling, shea theodore (outside top10), K'andre Miller (outside top 10), Mackenzie Weegar, Mattias EKholm, vince dunn...

Great post. D generally take longer to develop and thus are harder to scout at 17/18. Meanwhile, offensive skill is comparatively easy to scout.

Habs royally screwed up but so did a few other teams. I think eventually CBJ & ANA may regret not rolling the dice with Michkov. If I was SJ or AZ, I would’ve called his bluff and taken him. He’s that special of a talent.

The last time he played in a full tournament with Bedard, it was Michkov who came away with more goals. A truly rare talent. But anything can happen.

This thread is toxic because it’s a mix of people unfairly roasting the Habs and homer Habs fans unfairly roasting Michkov to feel better about Demidov/Reinbacher.

 

[FlyguyOX]

Great post. D generally take longer to develop and thus are harder to scout at 17/18. Meanwhile, offensive skill is comparatively easy to scout.

Habs royally screwed up but so did a few other teams. I think eventually CBJ & ANA may regret not rolling the dice with Michkov. The last time he played in a full tournament with Bedard, it was Michkov who came away with more goals. A truly rare talent. But anything can happen.

This thread is toxic because it’s a mix of people unfairly roasting the Habs and homer Habs fans unfairly roasting Michkov to feel better about Demidov/Reinbacher.

It's all good fun. Can't take it too seriously.

 

[Baksfamous112]

Not sure they bust more but typically they take longer .

They do but it’s also the reason why they are so much harder to acquire via trade or cost so much more via FA.

https://www.nytimes.com/athletic/1828498/2020/05/21/why-nhl-teams-should-gamble-on-defencemen-over-forwards-later-in-the-draft/

It's part of the reason you never see a heavy analytics team like the hurricanes pick a d-man in the first round.

Non 1st round or outside top 10 in the 1st:
Adam fox, brock faber, Roman josi, Mcavoy (outside top 10), Morrissey (outside top 10), devon toews, Jaccob Slavin, brent burns (outside top 10), brandon montour, gustav forsling, shea theodore (outside top10), K'andre Miller (outside top 10), Mackenzie Weegar, Mattias EKholm, vince dunn...

Non 1st rounder or outside top 10 in the 1st:

Panarin, Pastrnk, Kucherov, J.T Miller, Kaprisov, Forsberg, Point, Aho, Thomas, Bratt, Barzal, Robertson, Guentzel, Hyman, Trocheck, Suzuki, Kempe, Nyquist, Kreider, Hagel, Boeser, Fiala, Verhaeghe

That’s 23/50 top point producer last year that were drafted outside of the top 10 (and I ignored the D here, so technically 23/44) of the top producing forwards were drafted outside the top 10 a whole bunch of them are late round picks.

 

[FerrisRox]

https://www.nytimes.com/athletic/1828498/2020/05/21/why-nhl-teams-should-gamble-on-defencemen-over-forwards-later-in-the-draft/

View attachment 902790

View attachment 902791

It's part of the reason you never see a heavy analytics team like the hurricanes pick a d-man in the first round.

In the last ten years the Hurricanes have taken a defenseman with their top pick five times, including three in the first round.

 

[FlyguyOX]

In the last ten years the Hurricanes have taken a defenseman with their top pick five times, including three in the first round.

Tulsky was named a hockey analyst for the team in 2015 and manager of hockey analytics in 2017.

2015 they went D in the 1st in Hanifin, then 2016 went D in the 1st in Bean.

They have not taken a D in the 1st since Tulsky was promoted to manager of hockey analytics in 2017. Dundon, who has leaned on Tulsky heavily and since made him the GM, acquired the team in 2017.

 

[Baksfamous112]

Tulsky was named a hockey analyst for the team in 2015 and manager of hockey analytics in 2017.

2015 they went D in the 1st in Hanifin, then 2016 went D in the 1st in Bean.

They have not taken a D in the 1st since Tulsky was promoted to manager of hockey analytics in 2017. Dundon, who has leaned on Tulsky heavily and since made him the GM, acquired the team in 2017.

They drafted once (30th overall) in the first round over the last 4 years.

 

[Tanknation]

So you think Michkov is the best prospect to ever come out of Russia?
This is only stats based I assume?

Again, I love Michkov, and wish the habs drafted him. But why ignore every deficiencies in his game because he scores a lot? We should not talk about it and just ignore them?

We recently saw the same thing with Eiserman who broke the USNDT goal record. Other areas of your game like size, defensive play and character will impact the value of a player.

Exactly why Demidov will end up being the better all around player. Michkov will put up points, so will Demidov. However, Demidov is bigger, way more physical, better on both ends of the ice as Michkov's D play is non existent. And by all accounts, Demidov's character has never been in question. Give me Demi God all day long.

 

[FlyguyOX]

They drafted once (30th overall) in the first round over the last 4 years.

Wasn't a forward

 

[jfhabs]

Exactly why Demidov will end up being the better all around player. Michkov will put up points, so will Demidov. However, Demidov is bigger, way more physical, better on both ends of the ice as Michkov's D play is non existent. And by all accounts, Demidov's character has never been in question. Give me Demi God all day long.

I mean, when they ask Michkov to play on both ends of the ice with SKA it didn't work well. He certainly has the talent to adjust, but we'll see if/when that happens. Sure he might produce more, but not all points are equal.

That's why players like Toews and Bergeron were considered some of the best forwards in the league while some other forwards producing the same or more were not regarded as highly.

 

[FlyguyOX]

I mean, when they ask Michkov to play on both ends of the ice with SKA it didn't work well. He certainly has the talent to adjust, but we'll see if/when that happens. Sure he might produce more, but not all points are equal.

That's why players like Toews and Bergeron were considered some of the best forwards in the league while some other forwards producing the same or more were not regarded as highly.

Oh, you watched their preseason game when he was at center?

Tell us more of your observations from those games.

 

[HeadLiceHatty]

Exactly why Demidov will end up being the better all around player. Michkov will put up points, so will Demidov. However, Demidov is bigger, way more physical, better on both ends of the ice as Michkov's D play is non existent. And by all accounts, Demidov's character has never been in question. Give me Demi God all day long.

This better on both ends is the highest form of cope in this thread, neither play well at both ends. Demidov is also playing vs other kids it’s easy to look physically mature against kids vice 30 year old seasoned athlete men, let’s see what he does in the KHL. Demidov is certainly a bigger framed man but Michkov is built like a tree trunk and bounces off guys.

 

[JIMVINNY]

This better on both ends is the highest form of cope in this thread, neither play well at both ends. Demidov is also playing vs other kids it’s easy to look physically mature against kids vice 30 year old seasoned athlete men, let’s see what he does in the KHL. Demidov is certainly a bigger framed man but Michkov is built like a tree trunk and bounces off guys.

You pretending like Demidov hasn't already shown he's fine against men is the real cope. Him and a bunch of u23's just handled the team Michkov played with last year, and while some of the kids struggled, Demidov certainly didn't. Your narrative is crumbling.

 

[Garbageyuk]

pretty stupid that this rivalry started just because Habs were stupid enough to pass on Michkov.

we passed on Michkov but since we got Demidov let's compare them to make ourselves feel better if Demidov is better.

just be happy with what u got. it all worked out sure u passed on Michkov but u got Reinbacher and now that Demidov dropped to you everything worked out, I just don't get it. who honestly cares if Michkov ends up being better anyways?


how many examples of Datsyuk are normally found in the 6th round pal?

Lidstrom
Zetterberg
Palffy
Benn
Lundqvist
Pavelski
Rinne
Stone
Markov
Kaprizov
Robitaille
Gilmour
Hull

And many more, pal. Many of these were even later than the 6th round, pal.

 

[Xirik]

Lidstrom
Zetterberg
Palffy
Benn
Lundqvist
Pavelski
Rinne
Stone
Markov
Kaprizov
Robitaille
Gilmour
Hull

And many more, pal. Many of these were even later than the 6th round, pal.

even if you add a couple more it would still only be a small % of 6th rounders who were successful or stars in the league.

 

[HeadLiceHatty]

You pretending like Demidov hasn't already shown he's fine against men is the real cope. Him and a bunch of u23's just handled the team Michkov played with last year, and while some of the kids struggled, Demidov certainly didn't. Your narrative is crumbling.

I can feel your hurt, but when Demidov puts up 10-15 points In the KHL ( if he makes a roster ) what’s going to be the excuse then? Your grasping at straws is hilarious, next it’ll be some other “intangibles”.

 

[Kudo Shinichi]

Hronek, Drysdale are ones at the top of my head.

Drysdale was drafted 6th overall and traded for a recent 5th overall pick. That proves my point that acquiring a good young rd is difficult.

Hronak sure, but he wasn't seen as that good of a player when he played for Detroit. He reached another level playing with Hughes. He's also not the kind of RD the habs wouldve been looking to add. The habs need a RD who can be strong defensively since they will have 2 offensive dmen already in their top 4 (Hutson and Mailloux).