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Martin Brodeur: Old school goaltending

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Vinnie said:
I hope this thread never dies, it's just way too funny.
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If only to bring it up every time this guy posts. What will he say when he'll win his 2nd gold? What will he says if he wins his 4th cup? What will he say when Brodeur will have passed Patrick Roy? What will he say when he'll have gotten in the Hall of Fame on first ballot?

But hey, lets hear what he has to say, he clearly knows more about goaltending then that guy, whats his name Brodeur.
 
Habsaku said:
Patrick Lalime, theres a goaltender that had inflated statistics.
Martin Brodeur, hell no. You dont win that much by being an average goaltender and if you actually took a chance to watch him play, you'd notice his superior skill in all facets of the game. Wether its rebound control, leg speed, positioning, anticipation or his godly puck control.

Hell, he was Tretiaks best student(assistant teacher in his teens) in a class that featured people like Jose Theodore. This guy hasnt come out of nowhere.
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I'm just not saying he comes from nowhere, i'm saying that he's got to adjust...he's playing like a 90's goalie....

Don't ever and for the Lalime case....don't ever tell me that Brodeur would make the playoffs in a Blues uniform....

And to play the game of compairing... Just look at Nik khabibulin...he is just having a hard time with the hawks...does it make him a bad goalie for that, I don't think so.... you just can't match team results, with a goalie's efficiency (and i don't talk about save percentage here)
 
Ovechkin+Bure=Goals said:
I'm just not saying he comes from nowhere, i'm saying that he's got to adjust...he's playing like a 90's goalie....

Don't ever and for the Lalime case....don't ever tell me that Brodeur would make the playoffs in a Blues uniform....

And to play the game of compairing... Just look at Nik khabibulin...he is just having a hard time with the hawks...does it make him a bad goalie for that, I don't think so.... you just can't match team results, with a goalie's efficiency (and i don't talk about save percentage here)
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Khabibulin has been horrendous this year. Brodeur has given the Devils a chance at the playoffs and will make them a cup threat as always.

I dont think Brodeur could get the blues to the playoffs, but I dont think any goaltender can so thats pointless.


And what in gods hell is a 90s goaltender? Thats the most ridiculous notion I've heard yet. If anything, that time was a butterfly goalies time.
 
Habsaku said:
And what in gods hell is a 90s goaltender? Thats the most ridiculous notion I've heard yet. If anything, that time was a butterfly goalies time.
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90's goalies style are : Puppa, Casey, Joseph, Ranford, Richter, Barasso, Hrudey, Burke, Potvin, Fiset, Salo, Beaupre..... ALL half butterfly....i'm not saying that they're all in the same category of goalies, i'm juste saying that they use half-butterfly and stack pad instead of complete butterfly push...

And before someone says' : ''butterfly is not the key of great goaltenting'', i'm saying that all-goalies should at least do the basic of the style on some precise shots...

New era goalies (all butterfly by the way)...: Kolzig, Giguère, Theodore, Khabibulin,Denis, Aebisher,LUONGO, Vokoun, Lundqvist, Dipietro, Esche, Niittymaki, Miller, Gerber, Kiprusoff, Garon, Toivonen, Fleury ( :bow: ), Lethonen, Roloson, Fernandez, Legace, Bryzgalov, ... Plus upcoming stars such as : Justin Pogge, Al Montoya, Tukka Rask, etc....
 
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Ovechkin+Bure=Goals said:
I just simply never used those words.... just quote me...
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ok
Ovechkin+Bure=Goals said:
Yes Brodeur had great years... but he plays like a 90's goalie...and we are now in a new millenium!
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So what has changed in the past 4 years that would make his "outdated" style not work in the olympics this time?
 
Ovechkin+Bure=Goals said:
90's goalies style are : Puppa, Casey, Joseph, Ranford, Richter, Barasso, Hrudey, Burke, Potvin, Fiset, Salo, Beaupre..... ALL half butterfly....i'm not saying that they're all in the same category of goalies, i'm juste saying that they use half-butterfly and stack pad instead of complete butterfly push...

And before someone says' : ''butterfly is not the key of great goaltenting'', i'm saying that all-goalies should at least do the basic of the style on some precise shots...

New era goalies (all butterfly by the way)...: Kolzig, Giguère, Theodore, Khabibulin,Denis, Aebisher,LUONGO, Vokoun, Lundqvist, Dipietro, Esche, Niittymaki, Miller, Gerber, Kiprusoff, Garon, Toivonen, Fleury ( :bow: ), Lethonen, Roloson, Fernandez, Legace, Bryzgalov, ... Plus upcoming stars such as : Justin Pogge, Al Montoya, Tukka Rask, etc....
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The simple fact you put in Kolzig, Giguere, Theodore, Khabibulin, Vokoun, Gerber, Kiprusoff, Garon who are all 30 or close or above shows you have no idea what a new era is.

Funny thing is, Brodeur actually beat Giguere in that finals didnt he? Yeah, he did.
 
Thechnology.... With the new sticks... players has lightning quick shots that forces goalies to play the percentage... and face the puck...letting the puck hit them...covering the angle.... Brodeur style relies on shot reading... he hits the puck with the pad and arm to make saves...and with blazing shots that Naslund, Kovalchuk, Ovechkin and others has.... brodeur would have advantage to simply play the percentage....Think about the italian first goal...he should have went down butterfly way....
 
Ovechkin+Bure=Goals said:
Thechnology.... With the new sticks... players has lightning quick shots that forces goalies to play the percentage... and face the puck...letting the puck hit them...covering the angle.... Brodeur style relies on shot reading... he hits the puck with the pad and arm to make saves...and with blazing shots that Naslund, Kovalchuk, Ovechkin and others has.... brodeur would have advantage to simply play the percentage....Think about the italian first goal...he should have went down butterfly way....
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So special new composite sticks have came out since 2002 that would completly change the way a Goalie should play the game? News to me. The composite sticks that are used today have been around since at least 1999.

Plus that is what Brodeur does. He is the king of cutting down angles and playing the shooting percentages.
 
Ovechkin+Bure=Goals said:
1999 pretty close of the new millenium...
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Thats not the point. Brodeur has had his best years since 2000 ... including an olympic win! I fail to see how this "new technology" is going to start to affect him right now, when it clearly hasnt yet.
 
Ovechkin+Bure=Goals said:
1999 pretty close of the new millenium...
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You're arguing against yourself. Look at what Brodeur has achieved since then. If anything, the "new" era is the Brodeur era.
 
http://mfile.akamai.com/16532/wmv/n...ams/2005/mtl/nov/11_15_05/fla@mtl_274_700.asx

Luongo getting beat in the lower area once , blocker side twce and choking with 4 seconds left in OT .

http://mfile.akamai.com/16532/wmv/n...ams/2005/mtl/nov/11_01_05/fla@mtl_178_700.asx

Once again playing soft with few seconds left .

Your blind love for Luongo is ridiculous , just because he can stack these condominiums and block the lower part of the net means nothing . Jagr will have no problem shooting high or make a crisp pass to a winger .
 
Ovechkin+Bure=Goals said:
I don't understand your comments guys....you are always saying: Brodeur mixes stand up and butterfly.... But the fact is that brodeur doesn't do the butterfly at all...The closest thing he is doing is a Half-Butterfly on the first shot...he just don't give a **** about the fondamentals basics of the butterfly (being square under the arms, not finishing standing on your butt on a rebond, not having the pads face down on the ice, doing a butterfly push to face a second shot from a rebond instead of diving head first, getting up with the right leg....etc...) wich is costing him lots of goals...

+, I can say that Brodeur Highlight reel saves are coming (for most of them) from bad recoveries from the first shot, so he has to dive to make the second.

.
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It sound more like you are describing Hasek here.

I seriously question if you've ever watched Marty play or even understand basic goaltending philosophies past a summer camp level.

1. He does butterfly sometimes but not to the point that he is predictable like most straight butterfly goalies.

2. He does the one leg down thing so that he is still on his feet and able to adjust his position if the puck gets deflected or there is a rebound. For every goal he gives up because he wasn't sprawled out in the butterfly he saves several because he is not caught on the ground after the first shot attempt.

3. His style is not anything like the 90's goalies you keep grouping him in with. If anything he has been an innovater in developing the hybrid goaltender so I'm not sure how that can be outdated.

4. I'm not sure what you think has changed in the olympics since 2002 that would make you think he would now be outdated anyways.

5. This is the most rediculous anti-Brodeur thread ever. Usually it is a good debate on how valuable he has been to the Devils run or if he is a product of the Devils system but now we have an internet goalie actually disecting his style and referring to it as outdated. Now we've seen it all.

BTW, what is the point of posting videos of people scoring on him 5 hole? He has been in the league for around 13 years, in that time span you could find a video to support any claim you want. The fact that you used all-star game footage to make a point, is even more laughable.
 
Ovechkin+Bure=Goals said:
Your blind love towards Brodeur is also ridicoulous....how can you be the heart of a team succes when you fail to win the Conn Smyth in 3 championships....
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Claude Lemieux - 13 goals in 20 playoff games
Scott Stevens
The Stay Puft marshmellow man.

Phil Esposito never won a Conn Smyth. Guess he sucked too.

But anyways, care to respond to any of the other points that have been brought up?
 
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Ovechkin+Bure=Goals said:
I'm just not saying he comes from nowhere, i'm saying that he's got to adjust...he's playing like a 90's goalie....

Don't ever and for the Lalime case....don't ever tell me that Brodeur would make the playoffs in a Blues uniform....

And to play the game of compairing... Just look at Nik khabibulin...he is just having a hard time with the hawks...does it make him a bad goalie for that, I don't think so.... you just can't match team results, with a goalie's efficiency (and i don't talk about save percentage here)
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He's playing like a 90's goalie????

He won cups in 2000 and 2003!!! :biglaugh: :biglaugh: :biglaugh:

whatever little credibility that you had has just been thrown out the window. :biglaugh:
 
Ovechkin+Bure=Goals said:
90's goalies style are : Puppa, Casey, Joseph, Ranford, Richter, Barasso, Hrudey, Burke, Potvin, Fiset, Salo, Beaupre..... ALL half butterfly....i'm not saying that they're all in the same category of goalies, i'm juste saying that they use half-butterfly and stack pad instead of complete butterfly push...

And before someone says' : ''butterfly is not the key of great goaltenting'', i'm saying that all-goalies should at least do the basic of the style on some precise shots...

New era goalies (all butterfly by the way)...: Kolzig, Giguère, Theodore, Khabibulin,Denis, Aebisher,LUONGO, Vokoun, Lundqvist, Dipietro, Esche, Niittymaki, Miller, Gerber, Kiprusoff, Garon, Toivonen, Fleury ( :bow: ), Lethonen, Roloson, Fernandez, Legace, Bryzgalov, ... Plus upcoming stars such as : Justin Pogge, Al Montoya, Tukka Rask, etc....
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I believe patrick roy was the pioneer of the butterfly. He won 2 cups in the 90s.

all the new era goalies that you just mentioned have in grand total 1 STANLEY CUP!!

:biglaugh:
 
I'm in total agreement with Burechkin. See what none of you understand is that unless you've played goal you don't have any right to judge a goalie. I played some street hockey goalie for a couple of weeks and let me tell you, that half-butterfly thing is hard, I couldn't even do it. How am I supposed to make a save with a half-butterfly if my knee is still a foot of the pavement? Now the butterfly there's a different story. Have you guys watched Theodore this year at all? He never gets beat low, he gets beat five times a game high but nobody's going low on him nosiree. Seriously I'm just laughing my *** off at Lou and the Devils signing him to a five year extension. Didn't they get the memo that Brodeur was too old and outdated even in 2000 when he was 28?

All you guys just don't know stylistic flaws when you see them, if a goalie makes a save when he's not in the butterfly he just got lucky.
 
crashlanding said:
I'm in total agreement with Burechkin. See what none of you understand is that unless you've played goal you don't have any right to judge a goalie. I played some street hockey goalie for a couple of weeks and let me tell you, that half-butterfly thing is hard, I couldn't even do it. How am I supposed to make a save with a half-butterfly if my knee is still a foot of the pavement? Now the butterfly there's a different story. Have you guys watched Theodore this year at all? He never gets beat low, he gets beat five times a game high but nobody's going low on him nosiree. Seriously I'm just laughing my *** off at Lou and the Devils signing him to a five year extension. Didn't they get the memo that Brodeur was too old and outdated even in 2000 when he was 28?

All you guys just don't know stylistic flaws when you see them, if a goalie makes a save when he's not in the butterfly he just got lucky.
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Being a street hockey goalie makes you an expert on goaltending?? :biglaugh:

Wow Theodore doesn't get beat down low nosiree, but he sure as hell gets beat five times a game up high! :biglaugh: Maybe if Theo would play the standup style that brodeur plays, he wouldn't get beat up high as often as he does. :biglaugh:

Old and outdated in 2000? He won a cup that year then another in 2003. :biglaugh:

The anti-brodeur threads just make me laugh. Brodeur is challenging for the all time wins and shutout records, but he's still overrated. Unbelievable.
 
The_Eck said:
Being a street hockey goalie makes you an expert on goaltending?? :biglaugh:

Wow Theodore doesn't get beat down low nosiree, but he sure as hell gets beat five times a game up high! :biglaugh: Maybe if Theo would play the standup style that brodeur plays, he wouldn't get beat up high as often as he does. :biglaugh:

The anti-brodeur threads just make me laugh. Brodeur is challenging for all time wins and all time shutout records, but he's still overrated. Unbelievable.
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(I think he was being sarcastic)
 
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