kingsfan25 said:
My thoughts exactly.When borrowing someone else's idea's please give them credit,at least.Martin Brodeur: Old school goaltending
- Thread starter Ovechkin+Bure=Goals
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My thoughts exactly.When borrowing someone else's idea's please give them credit,at least.
If you guys were goalies you would understand more what i'm talking about. Brodeur has some serious lack in his style.
And for those who are talking about all his staley cups ... Brodeur has been blessed by god to be a part of the devils defensive system. And to back up this idea...
ON THREE STANLEY CUP, BRODEUR HAS NO CONN SMYTH TROPHY...
I'm not saying that he is awfull in the net, I'm just saying that, on a thechnical point of view, he is overrated. He did accomplished a lot... But hell, if Luongo never has his chance, HOW IN THE HELL CAN HE ACCOMPLISH SOMETHING ?????
And for those who are talking about all his staley cups ... Brodeur has been blessed by god to be a part of the devils defensive system. And to back up this idea...
ON THREE STANLEY CUP, BRODEUR HAS NO CONN SMYTH TROPHY...
I'm not saying that he is awfull in the net, I'm just saying that, on a thechnical point of view, he is overrated. He did accomplished a lot... But hell, if Luongo never has his chance, HOW IN THE HELL CAN HE ACCOMPLISH SOMETHING ?????
Ovechkin+Bure=Goals said:
I am a goalie. Martin Brodeur is one of the best, if not the best, of all time. Would you not want a Dominik Hasek in his prime in your net because he's a flopper rather than playing a standard butterfly style? The butterfly isn't the end all and be all of saves. Teams with goalies who can direct pucks into corners with sticks and skates rather than have them bounce in front of them for the ice are able to play a much pacier counter-attacking game which wears on the opposing defense.
There's a reason the Devils have won so many Cups, and Canada won so many international competitions with Brodeur in net.
The difference between Brodeur and Hasek is that HASEK has a much better protection of the lowest part of the net then Brodeur. Brodeur is actually making pad saves with the skate standing on its heel....it leaves the five hole open if there's a deflection ...(or if he guesses wrong (cuz he is a guesser)). On the other hand, hasek is mastering the stack pads style, wich is doing a great job to cover the bottom part of the net.....
The difference with Brodeur and Hasek:
Hasek: the puck hits him (low risk)
Brodeur: he hits the puck (high risk)
Video footage of Brodeur's bad five hole coverage:
rapidshare.de/files/13437972/BRODEUR_FIVE_HOLE.wmv.html
The difference with Brodeur and Hasek:
Hasek: the puck hits him (low risk)
Brodeur: he hits the puck (high risk)
Video footage of Brodeur's bad five hole coverage:
rapidshare.de/files/13437972/BRODEUR_FIVE_HOLE.wmv.html
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Ovechkin+Bure=Goals said:
I bet you'd rock the house. What do you play? Bantam? I guess your credentials are as impressive to be critiquing a player with this much confidence.
2003-04 NHL - Vezina Trophy (Goaltender of the Year)
2003-04 NHL - William M. Jennings Trophy (Lowest goals-against)
2003-04 NHL - First All-Star Team
2003-04 Played in NHL All-Star
2002-03 Stanley Cup (New Jersey)
2002-03 NHL - Vezina Trophy (Goaltender of the Year)
2002-03 NHL - William M. Jennings Trophy (Lowest goals-against) (shared with Roman Cechmanek, Phi and Robert Esche, Phi)
2002-03 NHL - First All-Star Team
2002-03 Played in NHL All-Star
2001-02 Olympic Gold Medal (2002-CAN)
2000-01 Played in NHL All-Star
1999-00 Stanley Cup (New Jersey)
1999-00 Played in NHL All-Star
1998-99 Played in NHL All-Star
1997-98 NHL - William M. Jennings Trophy (Lowest goals-against)
1997-98 NHL - Second All-Star Team
1997-98 Played in NHL All-Star
1996-97 NHL - William M. Jennings Trophy (Lowest goals-against) (shared with Mike Dunham)
1996-97 NHL - Second All-Star Team
1996-97 Played in NHL All-Star
1995-96 Played in NHL All-Star
1994-95 Stanley Cup (New Jersey)
1993-94 NHL - Calder Memorial Trophy (Rookie of the Year)
1993-94 NHL - All-Rookie Team
1991-92 QMJHL - Second All-Star Team
Bring your resume next time.
I don't give a F*** about the past...
the only thing I want to analyze is NOW, ... and NOW Brodeur style is outdated !
By the way Chris Osgood did won the Stanley Cup, but does this makes him a great goalie ?
Yes Brodeur had great years... but he plays like a 90's goalie...and we are now in a new millenium!
P.S : Please highlight the Conn Smyth Trophy in Brodeur's resume cause i'm not seeing it.
the only thing I want to analyze is NOW, ... and NOW Brodeur style is outdated !
By the way Chris Osgood did won the Stanley Cup, but does this makes him a great goalie ?
Yes Brodeur had great years... but he plays like a 90's goalie...and we are now in a new millenium!
P.S : Please highlight the Conn Smyth Trophy in Brodeur's resume cause i'm not seeing it.
Missionhockey
Registered User
Brodeur set a record for shutouts in the 2003 Stanley Cup Finals. The Conn Smyth went to the Stay Puft man. Good enough for you?Ovechkin+Bure=Goals said:
Ovechkin+Bure=Goals said:
He was robbed in favor of Giguere even though Brodeur set a record for shutouts in the playoffs & the finals.
He wasn't robbed. Giguere was far and away the most valuable player to his team in the playoffs.Pksoze said:
blitzkriegs
Registered User
Ovechkin+Bure=Goals said:
Amazing how you are begging for Luongo to play net, but somewhow Brodeur's style is outdated...
Umm...have you checked the NHL standings lately? Do the Devils still play the neutral zone trap?
Seriously, it's kinda pathetic the love affair people have with players to sooooo easily dismiss the amazing accomplishments of PROVEN champions.
I guess the annual trend of acquiring 'proven SC veterans' at the trade deadline is a myth...There is a REASON why those players are continuously acquired OVER others. Well, I guess, the same system Lemaire implemented in MIN, has had the SAME success as his success with ahem...Brodeur in net...
Haha, anytime you guys wanna let us put Brodeur on our team we will take him...you can use Luongo we will use his outdated style as its about 200% better than anything we have in net. Some of you folks dont realize how good you have it. Any of your 3 goalies are heads and shoulders above USA's goalies! SPOILED
But Vokoun played all year and Brodeur didn't play at all. That makes a huge differance for a goalieOvechkin+Bure=Goals said:
Missionhockey
Registered User
Pantokrator
Who's the clown?
Ovechkin+Bure=Goals said:If you guys were goalies you would understand more what i'm talking about. Brodeur has some serious lack in his style.
And for those who are talking about all his staley cups ... Brodeur has been blessed by god to be a part of the devils defensive system. And to back up this idea...
ON THREE STANLEY CUP, BRODEUR HAS NO CONN SMYTH TROPHY...
I'm not saying that he is awfull in the net, I'm just saying that, on a thechnical point of view, he is overrated. He did accomplished a lot... But hell, if Luongo never has his chance, HOW IN THE HELL CAN HE ACCOMPLISH SOMETHING ?????
Where are you when the "Brodeur is overrated" threads come out? I could use your support!
Pantokrator
Who's the clown?
MissionHockey said:
Even though Brodeur would be a 1000% upgrade on any of these US goalies, a goalie alone can only do so much. I don't think this team would win with just a goalie upgrade.
Missionhockey
Registered User
Personally I don't think its out of reach for the Americans to capture a Bronze, maybe even a Silver. Brodeur in net would solidify that for me.Pantokrator said:
DownFromNJ said:
What was so bad about them? The first one, it was tipped, the second one, he came out cut down the angle, the guy couldn't have thrown it any better to place it where he did. Give it up people.
Jason MacIsaac
Registered User
Funny how a 90's style goaltender won two cups, an olympic gold, world cup of hockey, two vezinas and was robbed of a Conn Smyth.......All in the new millenium.Ovechkin+Bure=Goals said:
Yea, he is outdated.
Pantokrator
Who's the clown?
blitzkriegs said:Well, I guess, the same system Lemaire implemented in MIN, has had the SAME success as his success with ahem...Brodeur in net...
I know I am gonna hear it for this but I just can't let it go...
If I am not mistaken, those goalies for Lemaire have been having good seasons, (Fernandez 2.15 GAA .924 sv%, Roloson 3 GAA, .911 sv%) and have had good seasons ever since he has been coaching them. Lemaire's system is built on limiting shots and limiting quality of shots. Do I think that Fernandez and Roloson are better than Brodeur despite better sv%? No. They play behind a system that helps their numbers, as does Brodeur. Brodeur has always had the advantage of playing behind very good if not great defenses and played for coaches who preach forward accountability to backchecking and playing good defense. While I have great confidence in Brodeur's ability, too many people give him credit for his teams' successes. He IS a valuable part of his teams' successes, but he is not the MAIN reason for them. When Canada won Gold at last olympics, were you surprised? Canada has a chance to win ANY international tournament no matter who they put in goal. Look at any Canadian team made up of its best forwards and defensmen and tell me they don't have the best in the world.
Before everyone dogpiles on me, I am NOT saying Brodeur is a bad goalie, I AM saying that he (as with many goalies) gets too much credit for his teams' successes.
To use team success as the main indicator of greatness CAN skew the evidence, and stats that reflect team success (GAA, Cup victories, Wins, sv% at times) CAN also do that same.
Pantokrator
Who's the clown?
MissionHockey said:
if you believe the Americans could medal without Brodeur, than I would agree with you and say that they would medal with him. I am just not that high on the team as it stands. But he would make that difference for the Americans.
Pantokrator
Who's the clown?
Just to beat the masses to the punch, I believe too much is made out of Brodeur's stats. Brodeur is a great goalie because of the intangibles he brings, such as confidence, ability to get in players heads, his play of the puck, his ability to shake off a bad goal and not let it affect his play. This is what makes him good. His style gives his team confidence, which helps the team play better, but he alone does not win Cups. He played on very good if not great teams. Brodeur would be a great goalie if he had no Cups and played on Pittsburgh with little or no defense with a GAA of 4. How often did Brodeur have to bail out any of his championship teams? How often were the Devils outshot 50-20? How often did the Devils give up 2-1's and 1-0's? Brodeur did what he needed to do, which was not let in bad goals. But to suggest he is great BECAUSE of his Cups and championships I don't buy into.
Missionhockey
Registered User
Many times I hear from Dallas Stars fans when asked of his save%, that it isn't the amount of shots he's faced its the quality of shots. For many years, except this year, that would describe Brodeur. They would block a lot of low percentage shots, and then suddenly there would be a major scoring chance. He's also had a knack for bailing out his team in pressure situations.Pantokrator said:
I've always thought that if Brodeur were on another team, he would still be upper echelon, but not reguarded as highly. HOWEVER I do not believe if another goalie were put in his situation (like Richter, or Joseph or even Luongo) they would be able to achieve similiar success. Brodeur has a focus about him that very few players have.
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