Martin Brodeur: Old school goaltending

[Ovechkin+Bure=Goals]

Do I think that Fernandez and Roloson are better than Brodeur despite better sv%? No. They play behind a system that helps their numbers, as does Brodeur. Brodeur has always had the advantage of playing behind very good if not great defenses and played for coaches who preach forward accountability to backchecking and playing good defense. Look at any Canadian team made up of its best forwards and defensmen and tell me they don't have the best in the world.
Before everyone dogpiles on me, I am NOT saying Brodeur is a bad goalie.


I Think the same way...
And for the Conn Smyth Robbery...please boys don't ever say this again.. Brodeur was not really good in the finals.. DON'T YOU GUYS REMEMBER WHEN HE DOPPED HIS STICK ON AN OZOLINSH ZONE CLEANING SHOT... AND IT ACTUALLY RESULTED INTO A GOAL...And add to this the large amount of shot that he has let in from the point (Salei and Thomas in ot) while he was seeing the puck....

My point is that he is often beaten by long hard shot...And if he could use the butterfly more often..he would probably be the best in the world...

And just to put oil on the fire..(but get me ..I'm not trying to make enemies out of this...):

If there was a game '' Human vs Alien'' and the losing civilization would, as punishment, get earase of the universe, which goalie would you put in the net ?

In my list... there's about 10 guys ahead of brodeur.. Cuz is game is based on guessing...(For sure he's the best to anticipate...but when he's not in his '' zone '', he doesn't have the strategical butterfly to secure-up the rest of his game)

 

[gr8haluschak]

I really can't belive this thread honestly,

You know why Broduer makes the saves time after time - it is beacuse he is in POSITION to make it, that is what GOALTENDING BOILS DOWN TO - plain and simple, it doesn't matter what style you are you have to be in position.

 

[Ovechkin+Bure=Goals]

Is anybody accepting the fact that brodeur would be better if he was putting some butterfly move in his style....

rapidshare.de/files/13437972/BRODEUR_FIVE_HOLE.wmv.html
rapidshare.de/files/13437972/BRODEUR_FIVE_HOLE.wmv.html
rapidshare.de/files/13437972/BRODEUR_FIVE_HOLE.wmv.html

 

[Missionhockey]

So in other words, to you the Butterfly style is the "be all end all", and since Brodeur is a hybrid style of goaltending, he is no longer capable of elite status.

I got news for you, all goalies get beaten low once in a while. However since Brodeur plays a half butterfly style, it allows him to play a high shot better. It also helps him recover better for rebounds or faked shots, where as if you get a butterfly goalie it would be much harder to get to a recovery position. It also leaves a lot of room up high, especially if the goalie drops early.

Its obviously not a bad method of goaltending seeing as how about 90% of NHL goaltenders use it, but if a goalie can play Brodeur's style it allows more flexiblity.

 

[ZadorovNJD*]

And for the Conn Smyth Robbery...please boys don't ever say this again.. Brodeur was not really good in the finals.. DON'T YOU GUYS REMEMBER WHEN HE DOPPED HIS STICK ON AN OZOLINSH ZONE CLEANING SHOT... AND IT ACTUALLY RESULTED INTO A GOAL...And add to this the large amount of shot that he has let in from the point (Salei and Thomas in ot) while he was seeing the puck....

The finals when he had 3 shutouts, including game seven? That one? Not exactly the best series to argue that Brodeur sucks.


Edit: His GAA/SV% in that series: 1.73/.925
Horrible!

 

[Pksoze]

He wasn't robbed. Giguere was far and away the most valuable player to his team in the playoffs.

Not in my opinion.

Giguere had 3 good rds

Brodeur had 4 and had 3 shutouts in the Finals alone.

 

[Lou is God]

The difference between Brodeur and Hasek is that HASEK has a much better protection of the lowest part of the net then Brodeur. Brodeur is actually making pad saves with the skate standing on its heel....it leaves the five hole open if there's a deflection ...(or if he guesses wrong (cuz he is a guesser)). On the other hand, hasek is mastering the stack pads style, wich is doing a great job to cover the bottom part of the net.....

The difference with Brodeur and Hasek:

Hasek: the puck hits him (low risk)
Brodeur: he hits the puck (high risk)

Video footage of Brodeur's bad five hole coverage:

rapidshare.de/files/13437972/BRODEUR_FIVE_HOLE.wmv.html

Five hole?? I'm sorry man, but I have watched easily over 75% of Marty's games in the last ten years and the five hole has never been a problem for him. Where are you getting this from? Because somebody was able to put out a video together showing Marty giving up goals through his five hole? Big deal, for the amount of games he has played in his career you could probably find enough video of Marty giving up goals anyway imaginable, doesn't make it a weakness for him.

 

[Lateralous]

The finals when he had 3 shutouts, including game seven? That one? Not exactly the best series to argue that Brodeur sucks.


Edit: His GAA/SV% in that series: 1.73/.925
Horrible!

...and Giguere gave up a couple of soft five hole goals in Game 7 despite playing the vaunted butterfly.

I will concede though that Giguere was absolutly amazing for 3 rounds of the playoffs. It was just hard to watch him take home the Conn Smythe after seeing him give up 15 goals in the 4 games I saw him live at the Meadowlands that series.

 

[therealdeal]

The finals when he had 3 shutouts, including game seven? That one? Not exactly the best series to argue that Brodeur sucks.


Edit: His GAA/SV% in that series: 1.73/.925
Horrible!

There really isn't anything to argue here, he has watched 1 game and saw Rhudey do an interview who mentioned Brodeurs odd style, so he thinkgs that Brodeur isn't good or something, I wouldn't worry about it.

 

[Habsaku]

This is the dumbest thread I've ever seen. Martin Brodeur's style is outdated, now I've heard everything.

 

[RobsonStreet]

I don't give a F*** about the past...
the only thing I want to analyze is NOW, ... and NOW Brodeur style is outdated !


By the way Chris Osgood did won the Stanley Cup, but does this makes him a great goalie ?

Yes Brodeur had great years... but he plays like a 90's goalie...and we are now in a new millenium!

P.S : Please highlight the Conn Smyth Trophy in Brodeur's resume cause i'm not seeing it.

Did I miss something? Did they stop playing hockey with sticks and pucks in the new millenium? If so, you're correct- I am pretty sure Luongo would have the edge stopping laser glorfs and mini planetoids on Epsilon VII's holographic rink.

 

[Ovechkin+Bure=Goals]

Folks, you'll realise in this season or this olympic or in the playoffs..... you all get fool by the numbers....I don't give a **** about goals per game average.... I just observe Brodeur... and it's jumping to my eyes that he is slowly becoming oudated...(not the worst but not the best)...laser shots will go throught him, even if he is seeing them.... By the way, I started thinking this way in the 99-00 all-star game... when Pavel Bure scored twice on Brodeur... on two long range slapper that went through Brodeur... For those who think they've seen all of brodeur...do you guys remember those two goals ???????

 

[Jason MacIsaac]

Folks, you'll realise in this season or this olympic or in the playoffs..... you all get fool by the numbers....I don't give a **** about goals per game average.... I just observe Brodeur... and it's jumping to my eyes that he is slowly becoming oudated...(not the worst but not the best)...laser shots will go throught him, even if he is seeing them.... By the way, I started thinking this way in the 99-00 all-star game... when Pavel Bure scored twice on Brodeur... on two long range slapper that went through Brodeur... For those who think they've seen all of brodeur...do you guys remember those two goals ???????

You remember an allstar game and thats part of your analysis....you have got to be kidding me. I remember in an allstar game Brodeur robbed Jagr....Jagr > Bure, so I win.

 

[Ovechkin+Bure=Goals]

Hahahahaha.... i'm not saying Brodeur doesn't make huge saves... i'm just saying he could be better if he was going down in butterfly more often....if you would have seen those shots.. you would have notice...I mean, those were long range shots....


By the Way BURE > Jagr .... (I've got to say it in response of you...even if we can't compare those two fantastic players)

 

[19nazzy]

Not in my opinion.

Giguere had 3 good rds

Brodeur had 4 and had 3 shutouts in the Finals alone.

Anaheim was nothing compared to New Jersey. Did you watch both guys play?

 

[The_Eck]

The butterfly is overrated IMO. In today's NHL were more and more players are going high on goalies the butterfly-type goaltenders are being exposed big time (see Theodore and Giguere). Brodeur's unique style of standup and butterfly goaltending is perfect for this 'new' NHL.

This thread is absolutely preposterous.

 

[blitzkriegs]

When Canada won Gold at last olympics, were you surprised?

Umm...who was the initial starter for CAN, got blown out, was replaced by Brodeur, and then CAN won Gold?

The guy is a proven winner on two HUGE stages. A LOT more than many others...Goaltenders rarely get the opportunity to actually win a SC, let alone win them with more than one team. Roy is last netminder in two decades...

 

[Ovechkin+Bure=Goals]

I don't understand your comments guys....you are always saying: Brodeur mixes stand up and butterfly.... But the fact is that brodeur doesn't do the butterfly at all...The closest thing he is doing is a Half-Butterfly on the first shot...he just don't give a **** about the fondamentals basics of the butterfly (being square under the arms, not finishing standing on your butt on a rebond, not having the pads face down on the ice, doing a butterfly push to face a second shot from a rebond instead of diving head first, getting up with the right leg....etc...) wich is costing him lots of goals...

+, I can say that Brodeur Highlight reel saves are coming (for most of them) from bad recoveries from the first shot, so he has to dive to make the second.

Brodeur has a lot of talent to have success with this style... but he could improve with the more frequent use of the butterfly mixed with his unbelievable shot reading capability.

 

[devildan]

Is anybody accepting the fact that brodeur would be better if he was putting some butterfly move in his style....

rapidshare.de/files/13437972/BRODEUR_FIVE_HOLE.wmv.html
rapidshare.de/files/13437972/BRODEUR_FIVE_HOLE.wmv.html
rapidshare.de/files/13437972/BRODEUR_FIVE_HOLE.wmv.html

Yeah, we get the point. Brodeur let in a bad 5-hole goal against Kovalchuk. Thanks for the input.

If you would watch a Devils game, you would realize that Brodeur has excellent 5-hole coverage. But what would I know? I have only watched him play every game for the past 10 years.

Brodeur is a solid goalie. He rarely makes the spectacular save ala Hasek or Luongo, because he is 1) always in position and 2) always handles his rebounds incredibly well. Plus im not exactly sure what this new style you are talking about is. The Olympics have had the same rules and tempo of play since they started to use NHLers.

I don't understand your comments guys....you are always saying: Brodeur mixes stand up and butterfly.... But the fact is that brodeur doesn't do the butterfly at all...The closest thing he is doing is a Half-Butterfly on the first shot...he just don't give a **** about the fondamentals basics of the butterfly (being square under the arms, not finishing standing on your butt on a rebond, not having the pads face down on the ice, doing a butterfly push to face a second shot from a rebond instead of diving head first, getting up with the right leg....etc...) wich is costing him lots of goals...

And butterfly isn’t the be all end all of goalie techniques. I have been to enough goalie schools over the years to back that up. While butterfly does let you cover down low better, it inhibits you laterally if you get caught down and on rebounds. Not to mention the whole covering the top of the net thing.

 

[Meatwad]

I don't understand your comments guys....you are always saying: Brodeur mixes stand up and butterfly.... But the fact is that brodeur doesn't do the butterfly at all...The closest thing he is doing is a Half-Butterfly on the first shot...he just don't give a **** about the fondamentals basics of the butterfly (being square under the arms, not finishing standing on your butt on a rebond, not having the pads face down on the ice, doing a butterfly push to face a second shot from a rebond instead of diving head first, getting up with the right leg....etc...) wich is costing him lots of goals...

Are you telling the best goaltender in the NHL how to play? What are you 13?
The fact you are ranting about it kind of scares me.

**** Broduer go in the ******* butterfly already!

You didnt actually say that, but its the general message in your 30 posts in this thread. Listen, Marty is an NHL goalie, who are you?

Did you win 3 Stanley cups, 2 vezinas, a Gold medal, 3 Jennings and a Calder trophy? Are you about to pass all goalies ever for Wins? Do you have a chance and breaking the shutout record? Didn't think so. You think you are a smarter and/or better goalie? Go prove it.

Are you just a Luongo fanboy upset with the fact that he "might" not play another game? Then don't waste my and other peeps time.

 

[Ovechkin+Bure=Goals]

Hey devildan, if you are a goalie and your not understanding what i'm talking about...you must be a pretty bad goalie....or maybe you just haven't test yourself because a great team is playing in front of you.....sometimes you've got to look further than the stats and the media to comments on a player..... what made me creating this thread were Kelly Hrudey comments on Brodeur.... when he said this, I was just like : '' Oh my god ! Finally someone said it !... I though that media influced guys like you would more easily understand my point due to this... cause before Hrudey said it, I've always think this way.

I find it strange that '' the king pin of goalie school '' (devildan) isn't understanding me on this point cause all the other goalies that I know are saying that Brodeur is overrated and would get some advantages by working a little bit on the butterfly. What was your goalie school ? Was it ''The André Racicot goalie school'' ?

P.S. : just for you not thinking i'm a fat whinning guy who never skated...I play goal since I'm 6 years old..and i 'm always doing this at 21. And just to respond to you, I went to several goalie schools... and I'm not asking anyone a trophy for that ...

+, i'm realizing that all the pro brodeur talkers are devils fans... you guys should watch games with objectivity... press mute during a game..maybe you will not be influenced by all the '' Wow, brodeur Froze the PUCK !!!!!!!!!! Holly cow !'' you are hearing about him.

 

[Habsaku]

Hey devildan, if you are a goalie and your not understanding what i'm talking about...you must be a pretty bad goalie....or maybe you just haven't test yourself because a great team is playing in front of you.....sometimes you've got to look further than the stats and the media to comments on a player..... what made me creating this thread were Kelly Hrudey comments on Brodeur.... when he said this, I was just like : '' Oh my god ! Finally someone said it !... I though that media influced guys like you would more easily understand my point due to this... cause before Hrudey said it, I've always think this way.

I find it strange that '' the king pin of goalie school '' (devildan) isn't understanding me on this point cause all the other goalies that I know are saying that Brodeur is overrated and would get some advantages by working a little bit on the butterfly. What was your goalie school ? Was it ''The André Racicot goalie school'' ?

P.S. : just for you not thinking i'm a fat whinning guy who never skated...I play goal since I'm 6 years old..and i 'm always doing this at 21. And just to respond to you, I went to several goalie schools... and I'm not asking anyone a trophy for that ...

Are you kidding me, we're Messier or Gretzky's numbers inflated because they played on a great team? Ever thought that maybe, a big part of the reason Brodeur always has such great teams is because he's the centerpiece of it? It's been said time and time again by people from NJ and the people that implemented the system: its built around Brodeur, not the other way around. Ever noticed something? Every year the Devils seem to lose star quality players, wether its on offense or on defense, yet they still come out on top. On top of that, the only constant is Martin Brodeur. Think about it for a second.

Patrick Lalime, theres a goaltender that had inflated statistics.
Martin Brodeur, hell no. You dont win that much by being an average goaltender and if you actually took a chance to watch him play, you'd notice his superior skill in all facets of the game. Wether its rebound control, leg speed, positioning, anticipation or his godly puck control.

Hell, he was Tretiaks best student(assistant teacher in his teens) in a class that featured people like Jose Theodore. This guy hasnt come out of nowhere.

 

[Habsaku]

Also, just a thing about Kelly Hrudey. This is the same guy that said a few weeks ago that Zednik was one of the players that stood out the most for Montreal(along with Jan Bulis). Richard ****ing Zednik thats having his worst season yet. How he could say he played well is beyond me.

 

[The_Eck]

Hey devildan, if you are a goalie and your not understanding what i'm talking about...you must be a pretty bad goalie....or maybe you just haven't test yourself because a great team is playing in front of you.....sometimes you've got to look further than the stats and the media to comments on a player..... what made me creating this thread were Kelly Hrudey comments on Brodeur.... when he said this, I was just like : '' Oh my god ! Finally someone said it !... I though that media influced guys like you would more easily understand my point due to this... cause before Hrudey said it, I've always think this way.

I find it strange that '' the king pin of goalie school '' (devildan) isn't understanding me on this point cause all the other goalies that I know are saying that Brodeur is overrated and would get some advantages by working a little bit on the butterfly. What was your goalie school ? Was it ''The André Racicot goalie school'' ?

P.S. : just for you not thinking i'm a fat whinning guy who never skated...I play goal since I'm 6 years old..and i 'm always doing this at 21. And just to respond to you, I went to several goalie schools... and I'm not asking anyone a trophy for that ...

+, i'm realizing that all the pro brodeur talkers are devils fans... you guys should watch games with objectivity... press mute during a game..maybe you will not be influenced by all the '' Wow, brodeur Froze the PUCK !!!!!!!!!! Holly cow !'' you are hearing about him.

Okay, you're a goalie, and at what level?? You're giving advice to one of the all time best goalies ever when it's all said and done how to play his position??
Priceless.

 

[devildan]

Hey devildan, if you are a goalie and your not understanding what i'm talking about...you must be a pretty bad goalie....or maybe you just haven't test yourself because a great team is playing in front of you.....sometimes you've got to look further than the stats and the media to comments on a player..... what made me creating this thread were Kelly Hrudey comments on Brodeur.... when he said this, I was just like : '' Oh my god ! Finally someone said it !... I though that media influced guys like you would more easily understand my point due to this... cause before Hrudey said it, I've always think this way.

I find it strange that '' the king pin of goalie school '' (devildan) isn't understanding me on this point cause all the other goalies that I know are saying that Brodeur is overrated and would get some advantages by working a little bit on the butterfly. What was your goalie school ? Was it ''The André Racicot goalie school'' ?

No I understand what you are talking about. Your logic is just completely flawed. You said "anyone who is a Goalie would know what I am talking about." I am a goalie and I understand what you are talking about ... but you are wrong.

+, i'm realizing that all the pro brodeur talkers are devils fans... you guys should watch games with objectivity... press mute during a game..maybe you will not be influenced by all the '' Wow, brodeur Froze the PUCK !!!!!!!!!! Holly cow !'' you are hearing about him.

Please. Go look at my posts about Brodeur. I think he is over rated if anything. Just your reasons are Pejorative Slured.

P.S: Im still not sure what you mean by the "new Olympic style". Care to shed some light?