Player Discussion Marner

[ACC1224]

I don’t think he picked Nylander over Marner. Lmao Nylander was expiring last year. So he resigned him. I don’t think Nylander signing has any influence whatsoever on what happens with Marner. If they want to retain all 3 they have the cap space now to do so. If anything it’s looking more and more like that’s exactly what’s going to happen.

The thought that he picked Nylander over Marner has been right up there with the dumber thoughts of the summer.

 

[Suntouchable13]

I don’t think he picked Nylander over Marner. Lmao Nylander was expiring last year. So he resigned him. I don’t think Nylander signing has any influence whatsoever on what happens with Marner. If they want to retain all 3 they have the cap space now to do so. If anything it’s looking more and more like that’s exactly what’s going to happen.

I really hope not. I dislike Marner's game a lot. It's not a fit for playoff hockey, sorry. Huge mistake to sign him to an obscene contract. Why do we need 2 wingers making so much money anyway? I really don't get it. There are teams out there winning cups, winning divisions who don't have that much money tied up in 2 soft wingers.

 

[francis246]

That isn't smart.

You build teams. You don't "Keep your best players wherever possible" when the core doesn't work.

I hold out some hope that the big reason why the Leafs have sucked so bad in the post season is Keefe, Dubas, and borderline goaltending like Sammy.

I agree, I think the original plan of the team would have worked if they just stuck to it. But they got greedy with the Tavares signing and a potential cap rise.

I do think Berube will help us have better results and I really like the roster Brad has built. Defense and goaltending looks stable.

 

[francis246]

I really hope not. I dislike Marner's game a lot. It's not a fit for playoff hockey, sorry. Huge mistake to sign him to an obscene contract. Why do we need 2 wingers making so much money anyway? I really don't get it. There are teams out there winning cups, winning divisions who don't have that much money tied up in 2 soft wingers.

It really has nothing to do with soft wingers and has everything to do with talent. It is so HARD to acquire talent. A GM cannot reasonably bank on replacing a Marner type guy through UFA which is what the fanbase is asking Treliving to do. You are more than likely going to make bigger mistakes throwing money around in UFA. There is obviously a chance you hit, but more times than not GM’s shit the bed on July 1st. That is why the leafs probably won’t take that risk.

The leafs are in a spot where they are not bad enough to draft a legitimate top RW replacement with size and skill and they need to win now. I’m not saying doing nothing or staying status quo is the right decision but people acting like replacing Marner’s production with workhorses from UFA is going to immediately pan out and turn us into instant contenders are being a bit delusional. Your best bet is a trade, but that’s not really on the table right now. (Maybe you convince Marner to sign with limited trade protection). The time was after Montreal or TB series 1.

 

[Suntouchable13]

It really has nothing to do with soft wingers and has everything to do with talent. It is so HARD to acquire talent. A GM cannot reasonably bank on replacing a Marner type guy through UFA which is what the fanbase is asking Treliving to do. You are more than likely going to make bigger mistakes throwing money around in UFA. There is obviously a chance you hit, but more times than not GM’s shit the bed on July 1st. That is why the leafs probably won’t take that risk.

The leafs are in a spot where they are not bad enough to draft a legitimate top RW replacement with size and skill and they need to win now. I’m not saying doing nothing or staying status quo is the right decision but people acting like replacing Marner’s production with workhorses from UFA is going to immediately pan out and turn us into instant contenders are being a bit delusional. Your best bet is a trade, but that’s not really on the table right now. (Maybe you convince Marner to sign with limited trade protection). The time was after Montreal or TB series 1.

Well, if they re-sign Marner before the playoffs and they lose in round 1 or 2 again, then what? You have no flexibility to move on in a different direction. They have tried everything to get this core to get it done over the years. So what, are we gonna be stuck with this non winning core till they age out?

 

[francis246]

Well, if they re-sign Marner before the playoffs and they lose in round 1 or 2 again, then what? You have no flexibility to move on in a different direction. They have tried everything to get this core to get it done over the years. So what, are we gonna be stuck with this non winning core till they age out?

I don’t know what the right answer is. There’s risk all around. Marner could also have a dynamite playoffs and drive up his price. Then we either overpay or lose him for nothing after a good playoffs.

I think it comes down to two things. If they believe in this core and want to sign him. I think you have to sign him now before he goes on a tear. Get him under 12. If you don’t believe in this core, let Marner walk at the end of the year and start fresh. Graduate Cowan and Greb and let’s focus on drafting well. I do think the leafs are gonna be in the market for a 2C like O’Reilly. Him not resigning honestly fcked everything up. Had we resigned him I think we probably are more comfortable to move Marner for a similar aged forward who’s more hard-nosed.

I personally believe in the core. They will make a run. This my favourite iteration of the team since 16/17. Or 18/19.

 

[Suntouchable13]

I don’t know what the right answer is. There’s risk all around. Marner could also have a dynamite playoffs and drive up his price. Then we either overpay or lose him for nothing after a good playoffs.

I think it comes down to two things. If they believe in this core and want to sign him. I think you have to sign him now before he goes on a tear. Get him under 12. If you don’t believe in this core, let Marner walk at the end of the year and start fresh. Graduate Cowan and Greb and let’s focus on drafting well. I do think the leafs are gonna be in the market for a 2C like O’Reilly. Him not resigning honestly fcked everything up. Had we resigned him I think we probably are more comfortable to move Marner for a similar aged forward who’s more hard-nosed.

I personally believe in the core. They will make a run. This my favourite iteration of the team since 16/17. Or 18/19.

I guess it’s just a matter of opinion. I don’t believe in them whatsoever. We disagree, and that’s ok. But at the end of the day, we all would be very happy with a long playoff run next spring. That we can agree on.

 

[Gary Nylund]

The year before last he finished 3rd in voting... thinking he can win a Selke is not far-fetched or people getting carried away.

I think Matthews is better defensively, but I also think he is one of the best defensive forwards and the best complete forward.

Marner could definitely have a year where he is the best defensively in the league, I don't think it is likely, but definitely not far-fetched.

It's mostly a reputation award anyway, so I think it likely gets rotated around 3-4 players like it usually does because voters have no clue what to look for.

Agree to disagree. Marner may get some votes here and there but thinking he will ever actually win the Selke is a pipe dream.

The thought that he picked Nylander over Marner has been right up there with the dumber thoughts of the summer.

I've seen you make comments like this countless times - label people's opinions as dumb. FYI, just because an opinion differs from yours, doesn't mean it's dumb. This team has millions of fans, what's the point of constantly insulting people who disagree with you?

It really has nothing to do with soft wingers and has everything to do with talent. It is so HARD to acquire talent. A GM cannot reasonably bank on replacing a Marner type guy through UFA which is what the fanbase is asking Treliving to do. You are more than likely going to make bigger mistakes throwing money around in UFA. There is obviously a chance you hit, but more times than not GM’s shit the bed on July 1st. That is why the leafs probably won’t take that risk.

The leafs are in a spot where they are not bad enough to draft a legitimate top RW replacement with size and skill and they need to win now. I’m not saying doing nothing or staying status quo is the right decision but people acting like replacing Marner’s production with workhorses from UFA is going to immediately pan out and turn us into instant contenders are being a bit delusional. Your best bet is a trade, but that’s not really on the table right now. (Maybe you convince Marner to sign with limited trade protection). The time was after Montreal or TB series 1.

Disagree. It's not about acquiring talent, if about winning. And yes, of course the two are closely related but our playoff history shows that we've won a lot less than you'd expect with our talent level, therefore something is wrong with the mix, how it all fits together.

I don't think anyone is saying that "replacing Marner’s production with workhorses from UFA is going to immediately pan out", this is a pointless strawman argument. I could just easily say that people thinking we're going to win a cup after extending Marner for 12+ million are delusional but I won't say that. What I will say is that whatever we do will be a gamble, and considering how Marner's level of play dips in the playoffs and how his last 2 playoff series were absolutely terrible, I'd rather gamble on going in another direction.

Finally, I would add that even without Marner, we still have a ton of talent. Maybe having just a little bit less talent but having that talent spread more evenly through the lineup will end up with better results. Considering the way the last 8 years have gone, it's hard to see how things could be much worse.

 

[IPS]

I've seen you make comments like this countless times - label people's opinions as dumb. FYI, just because an opinion differs from yours, doesn't mean it's dumb. This team has millions of fans, what's the point of constantly insulting people who disagree with you?

What the f*** is even the point of contributing zero to the discussion except calling other people's opinions dumb.

Seems dumb and childish. Just get off the board if other's opinions trigger you that much.

 

[666]

With Nylander as the comparable and producing as well in a lesser role, the upper limit for Marner should be about $11M.

I think the best argument for keeping him, even at that amount, would be if Nylander becomes the 2C, so we only have one overpaid RW.

Nylander is NOT producing as well. He's a defensive zone disaster. 95 points on a top team and he only breaks even on goals against.

 

[666]

And you have again used "cognitive dissonance" incorrectly.

Cognitive dissonance is described as the mental disturbance people feel when they realize their cognitions and actions are inconsistent or contradictory. This may ultimately result in some change in their cognitions or actions to cause greater alignment between them so as to reduce this dissonance.

Some people irrationally hate Marner.
When he does something brilliant it contradicts their false hate.
They then reject legitimate facts / stats, fabricate mis-informational stats and exaggerate the emphasis on Marners mistakes to reduce the discomfort that they have when they see him playing like a superstar most of the time.
This creates a feedback loop and when you guys circle-jerk about his "flaws" it only makes it worse.

Here are some clear signs that you are probably suffering from CD.
- you don't think that Marner is a superstar
- you try to justify it by comparing him to Nylander but you ignore the very simple facts that Nylander is a much worse overall player
- when you watch the games you get some satisfaction when Marner messes up
- you bring up topics like Marners family and other non on-ice issues to justify your hate
- you repeat the same few mis-leading or plain false talking points that you've learned from your fellow haters to justify your hate

You guys are text book examples.