Confirmed with Link: Penguins and Mike Sullivan part ways

[66-30-33]

Did you get fired?

Naw but I made sure everyone knew about it.

 

[Buddy Bizarre]

Do not understand the fascination with Tocchet.

Bc he had a good relationship with 1 enigmatic player (Kessel) and he's now got a cult following.
Tochhet sucks. He's a former degenerate gambler

 

[Honour Over Glory]

Yeah that seems... uh... thin.

This idea that Mike Sullivan re-invented the aggressive forecheck is... well... I don't agree haha

Also that was like ten years ago, man. I assure you that teams have very much moved on, Jesse.

Mike didn't invent shit, what he did was have a staff that pushed back and they collaborated on winning 2 cups and then when he was left to his vices, Sullivan let that get into his head that he was great and greatness achieved was all him and so he refused to adjust, adapt, then he started to refuse to put issues aside to coach the team when he started to act like a whiny little f***ing bitch about Reaves and Cole and then the team started the decline with how he wanted to use the roster year after year.

f*** Mike Sullivan, good riddance to that f***ing loser. May the next team suffer as long as we did, because he is never going to repeat that success. He just isn't.

 

[DesertPenguin]

Something that hasn't been talked about much yet. Connecting dots between the end of the year presser and the one this morning. Last week Dubas said he felt players might be enjoying playing in Pittsburgh a bit too much. Not that they should treat the players poorly, but that they seemed to be getting complacent, conformable not being a winning team. Then today Dubas alluded to Sully's relationships with players, staff etc over the long term make it difficult for him to lead the team from contention, to retooling, back to contention.

Seems to me Dubas felt Sully was allowing veterans to slide based on their past success and effort level, instead of holding them accountable for how they were playing that day. I guess that would apply most to guys like Letang from the old days, since I don't see effort or commitment being a problem with Sid, Geno, Rust. Karlsson has been a problem but other than reputation, I don't know what allegiance Sully would have for him. His love for scrappy vets like Acciari is well known, but I dont think that applies here.

Speculating, I think Dubas wanted to see veteran minutes get cut during periods of bad play, regardless of who they were or what they had done before, and Sully wasn't willing to do that. If anything, that seems to me to be the driving force behind this firing. It's not coaching ability, systems etc. It's how he treated his veterans. The discipline focused approach he started with softened with guys who had been around for a while.

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

Sullivan held vets accountable.

I mean so long as they were the "right" ones to hold accountable in his eyes.

 

[Honour Over Glory]

One thing is for sure: If the coach they hire believes playing Malkin at LW and second power-play unit is MAXIMIZING the player, then he clearly is not the right man for the job.

I would like to think the person they hire will be smarter than that.

Moving Malkin to wing isn't the move. Reducing Sid and Malkin's minutes and surrounding them BOTH with better players to help them with the deficiencies in their games at this age (Sid with more D help, Geno with just not playing with f***ing trash after his wingers are removed to play with Sid), both will be better off. This isn't a Pavelski situation mate, moving Geno from C isn't the move unless you get a 2nd line C that Malkin really meshes with but I think he's fine at C. The minutes need to be managed better and so does the usage of the line-up. All of which Mike Sullivan was a f***ing lost tard with understanding.

Seeing Letang have his minutes cut by a f***ton would also be a massive step in the right direction. I would hope the next step is Quinn, Vellucci, and Chiodo humping the unemployment like with Sullitwat. f*** the lot of em.

Did I say good riddance to Mike Sullivan? I can't say it enough.

I HAVE f***ING WAITED FOR THIS MOMENT FOR YEARS, NONE OF YOU WILL TAKE THIS AWAY FROM ME. NONE OF YOU.

 

[MeinerEiner]

Most interesting thing to me about the presser is that Dubas said the coaching search would include Europe.

Olli Jokinen is available

 

[HandshakeLine]

I wonder how long it takes before Pens hf is ready to fire the next coach lol

Coaches should be hired to be fired, I don’t get how we forgot that.

 

[Honour Over Glory]

Cool.

Boom Boom Geoffrion invented the slap shot and revolutionized the game. Nobody is digging him up to put him in their top 6.

Another incredible insight from Jesse Yoheshall. Dumb f*** can go follow Sullivan to another fan base with Yohe.

 

[Honour Over Glory]

Olli Jokinen is available

Olli has legitimately been doing a great job as a coach and I think would be a good bloke to interview as well.

I know Hallander would be f***ing ecstatic.

 

[Pancakes]

I HAVE f***ING WAITED FOR THIS MOMENT FOR YEARS, NONE OF YOU WILL TAKE THIS AWAY FROM ME. NONE OF YOU.

I saw Yohe put David Quinn as a potential replacement in his Athletic article and I had to laugh. First for how implausible that idea is - there's no way Dubas is hiring a Sully adjacent coach for his next head coach.

But secondly I laughed imagining the absolute rage here that people would have if another boston Sully coach was behind the bench. Shit Quinn even looks like Sullivan. I used to joke that he was budget Mike Sullivan.

Won't happen though. You can rest easy.

 

[Pancakes]

Coaches should be hired to be fired, I don’t get how we forgot that.

I don't disagree, but unless a coach is an utter disaster like Mike Johnston I'd tend to want to give them a bit of slack before calling for their head lol

 

[SomeDude]

Bc he had a good relationship with 1 enigmatic player (Kessel) and he's now got a cult following.
Tochhet sucks. He's a former degenerate gambler

If that’s the qualifications, every hot dog vendor in the GTA should be on the short list.

And to steal from Mitch Hedberg “Tocchet used to gamble underground with Mrs. Gretzky…still does, but he used to, too.”

 

[Buddy Bizarre]

Yeah that seems... uh... thin.

This idea that Mike Sullivan re-invented the aggressive forecheck is... well... I don't agree haha

Also that was like ten years ago, man. I assure you that teams have very much moved on, Jesse.

Well to that point, Sullivan was too dumb to realize that when he didn't have the horse to run that forecheck anymore he STILL insisted on using it!

 

[Gurglesons]

Saying that the Penguins of 15-16 and 16-17 didn't help shape the direction of the league since is frankly just bad analysis.

Mike Sullivan was the head coach for those teams so if we are going to crush him for the decisions he's made the last few years give him flowers for that fact.

What the Penguins did in 16-17 in terms of shot value versus shot accumulation is what resulted in the Caps winning the cup and ultimately Matt Murray's downfall.

 

[Factorial]

One thing is for sure: If the coach they hire believes playing Malkin at LW and second power-play unit is MAXIMIZING the player, then he clearly is not the right man for the job.

I would like to think the person they hire will be smarter than that.

I kind of hard to criticize the changes they made on PP and the results of those changes even if it hurt Geno's PP stats.

 

[Buddy Bizarre]

I kind of hard to criticize the changes they made on PP and the results of those changes even if it hurt Geno's PP stats.

Here's the kicker about the PP. They removed 1 person...Malkin, but that's a red herring for this season's success.

Guess what Quinn implemented to improve the PP? He insisted the players MOVE and create infinite shooting/passing lanes.
Sullivan could have rectified the PP years ago...Quinn ain't anything special.

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

lol super predictable that people would be like "see the powerplay is better because they pulled Malkin."

Fifteenth times the charm, I guess. No need to acknowledge all the times they did it and it completely, unequivocally failed miserably.

 

[Jag68Sid87]

I kind of hard to criticize the changes they made on PP and the results of those changes even if it hurt Geno's PP stats.

You are judged by wins and losses. The best way to win is to maximize your roster.

Tell me that putting Malkin and Karlsson on the second power play is maximizing anything. If taking those two guys off the top unit is why Quinn was able to put forth a quality power play, then you get rid of him too.

It is about winning, not doing well in one aspect of the game. I never understood the Grz signing and never will. And putting Kevin Hayes ahead of Malkin on the top unit is just unspeakably dumb.

 

[Pancakes]

Saying that the Penguins of 15-16 and 16-17 didn't help shape the direction of the league since is frankly just bad analysis.

Mike Sullivan was the head coach for those teams so if we are going to crush him for the decisions he's made the last few years give him flowers for that fact.

What the Penguins did in 16-17 in terms of shot value versus shot accumulation is what resulted in the Caps winning the cup and ultimately Matt Murray's downfall.

I mean it's ultimately a copy cat league. If a team wins two cups playing a certain way other teams are going to look at that and try to take elements of their style/philosophy and apply them to themselves.

Anyone who thinks that didn't happen with Sully is letting their hate get the better of them.

That being said, I don't think he reinvented the wheel or anything. Even going just back to Bylsma the Pens were a fast forechecking team that stifled teams and relied on speed for success. There were different tactical wrinkles within that style of play of course but it was the same type of overall focus. And Bylsma didn't invent that either.

I'd say rather that the good coaches of the league find systems that fit their personnel and that's what Sullivan did. And JR to his credit helped build out a roster that 100% fit the way Sullivan wanted to play. We've all seen what happens when Sullivan doesn't have the roster to execute his style of play and it ain't pretty. But for a few years at least, he had that, and he was wildly successful.

 

[Jag68Sid87]

Mike Sullivan stopped winning games when we lost Kessel and no longer had enough offense to cover for his horrific coaching. Facts.

 

[Gurglesons]

I mean it's ultimately a copy cat league. If a team wins two cups playing a certain way other teams are going to look at that and try to take elements of their style/philosophy and apply them to themselves.

Anyone who thinks that didn't happen with Sully is letting their hate get the better of them.

That being said, I don't think he reinvented the wheel or anything. Even going just back to Bylsma the Pens were a fast forechecking team that stifled teams and relied on speed for success. There were different tactical wrinkles within that style of play of course but it was the same type of overall focus. And Bylsma didn't invent that either.

I'd say rather that the good coaches of the league find systems that fit their personnel and that's what Sullivan did. And JR to his credit helped build out a roster that 100% fit the way Sullivan wanted to play. We've all seen what happens when Sullivan doesn't have the roster to execute his style of play and it ain't pretty. But for a few years at least, he had that, and he was wildly successful.

I'm telling you that shot selection has been discussed by multiple people close to the game as changing largely due to the 16-17 and 17-18 Penguins and Capitals.

This is something that the Penguins changed betweent he 15-16 and 16-17 teams and it literally changed the league.

 

[Turin]

Sullivan did an amazing job in 2017 without Letang, every series the Pens got better as the series went along.

The rest of the league caught up in the couple years after and that was that but he was still a very good coach for some time there. He just got stale, no coach maintains success with one team for long in the NHL.

 

[Pancakes]

I'm telling you that shot selection has been discussed by multiple people close to the game as changing largely due to the 16-17 and 17-18 Penguins and Capitals.

This is something that the Penguins changed betweent he 15-16 and 16-17 teams and it literally changed the league.

Yeah I have heard that being brought up around the league in recent years. I can see giving Sullivan credit for that as the Pens were pretty selective with where they would shoot from under him. And the league in general has trended that way for years now. Some people have theorized that's why goalie save percentages have gone down - because teams are shooting with intention now and not just throwing everything at the net.

I don't know if every team has fully bought into that. I look at the Canes who seem to love to throw pucks on net from every possible angle. They're a bit of a throwback that way. Maybe sometimes to their detriment given their scoring struggles in the playoffs under Brindamour.

So yes I can see giving Sully credit for changing the league in that way, or being a partial driver of it. I don't think anything he did systematically beyond that was that innovative. Like the way the Pens forechecked, the way they played defense, their powerplay/penalty kill structures....it's all been done before.

 

[SomeDude]

If we’re going to follow the long franchise tradition of hiring a random alumnus to guide us through a period of terrible hockey…I suggest Ville Nieminen. Who has been known to rock a sweater vest behind the bench, even under a suit jacket.