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Value of: Marner

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LOFIN said:
Well obviously not the Panthers. Utah? San Jose? NYI? There are teams who are desperate for talent. Players of his caliber usually don’t hit UFA. Panarin was the latest, and he had maybe 12.5 to 14m on the table from the Islanders.
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Utah, has Keller at $7.15M for 4 more years. He is the top paid player. I'm not going to speak on behalf of Utah fans, but I very much doubt they'll give Marner $12M, much less trade any asset for him. (never mind, actually Sergachev is $8.5M now, still way under $12M).

NYI, that has 900K cap space. Lou as the King. Marner is not a Lou player.

SJ. They're rebuilding. Explain why they need Marner @ $12M?
 
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crowi said:
Utah, has Keller at $7.15M for 4 more years. He is the top paid player. I'm not going to speak on behalf of Utah fans, but I very much doubt they'll give Marner $12M, much less trade any asset for him. (never mind, actually Sergachev is $8.5M now, still way under $12M).

NYI, that has 900K cap space. Lou as the King. Marner is not a Lou player.

SJ. They're rebuilding. Explain why they need Marner @ $12M?
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I agree with you. Only way Marner gets comparable take home money via UFA is if he signs with a team in a tax free state. I think Dallas and Vegas might be his best bet if $9.5m-$10m is the equivalent to $12+m in Toronto.
 
crowi said:
Utah, has Keller at $7.15M for 4 more years. He is the top paid player. I'm not going to speak on behalf of Utah fans, but I very much doubt they'll give Marner $12M, much less trade any asset for him. (never mind, actually Sergachev is $8.5M now, still way under $12M).

NYI, that has 900K cap space. Lou as the King. Marner is not a Lou player.

SJ. They're rebuilding. Explain why they need Marner @ $12M?
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You just saw Nashville give Stamkos 8M per for 4 years, and he's inferior to what Marner is at this stage of their careers. Like not even close. Stamkos puts up points, yes, but he's not in the same class of player anymore.

Point of rebuilding is to get talent on the roster, and to become better. You can also do that via UFA. The market is simply not comparable to what the perceived worth of these players is to their own respective teams at this moment, or as an RFA.

Tavares, Panarin, Gaudreau... These top tier free agents simply get paid. Gaudreau probably would've gotten more from other teams, but he chose Columbus. If Draisaitl would actually hit free agency, there would be a team offering him 15M. That's a fact. Mikko Rantanen? Upwards of 13M. That's just how this stuff works.

And no, I'm not a Leafs fan. Quite the opposite really. Their own cap structure is frankly stupid, and a combination of MANY errors. But that's not really relevant to what their star players could get on the open market.
 
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I suppose one scenario is he tries free agency and the teams he wants to play for don't offer. He may get offered 12 million but by whom?
 
At this point Marner isn't getting traded this offseason. Teams just can't afford to give up any real assets, as it will leave holes in their lineups, that can no longer be filled by Free Agency.

Toronto at this point needs players that can play now.... they aren't throwing away a season, just to move Marner.
 
darrylsittler27 said:
I suppose one scenario is he tries free agency and the teams he wants to play for don't offer. He may get offered 12 million but by whom?
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Then he chooses between the best money and the best setting for himself. Kinda like any free agent ever. Top contending teams usually don't spend big money on free agents in the NHL. That's just how the hard cap works. Look at all the perceived contenders this offseason. Edmonton is basically the only one that got better. Most are just trying to fill the gaps that are coming because players who have played over their capvalue are going to get paid what they actually deserve. This happens every year, with every cup winner.
 
darrylsittler27 said:
The value in Marner is in dumping his salary and using the money on proven winners. Like it or not, Marner has a stigma as a record performing loser. If you want to get into the playoffs he has value but Toronto needs to win now. Tre and Shanahan are gambling unless they sign and trade him but the offers may not come from teams his Royal Highness wants to go to. It's Toronto so one thing is guaranteed, this won't end well. My guess, they lose 2nd round and Marner walks. The Leafs fire everybody and say we need to do another 10 year rebuild. I think it's over for this group.
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So tired of this nonsense.

Mitch’s value is allegedly dumping his salary and then using it on proven winners. However, if marner leaves freeing up that cap space then it’s also over for this group, and we need to rebuild again?

Do you see how utterly stupid that logic is?
 

Sypher04 said:
So what? Bertuzzi has actually been a playoff performer in his limited opportunity and even if he weren’t, an outlier wouldn’t have undone the whole list which is littered with top talent. It’s far from a useless stat
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And? How does playoff points per game over various random small sample sizes shed any insight into impact of winning playoff games? He's ahead of Matthews, so he's better in the playoffs than him? Bertuzzi is 2x as good as both of them? Its a cherry picked stat that is worthless
 
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banks said:
True. It's not easy. But Toronto could theoretically retain since the Marner contract is on it's last year.


I don't think Askarov's value is so high that Nashville would turn down a trade for Marner. Even with only one year left, he's got more value than Askarov.

I just think it's rare to have multiple rumours pointing to a deal like this. Askarov's agent, Marner speculation, and the ROR endorsement. But the cap space is the biggest struggle since NSH spent so much in free agency. The chance may have come and gone.
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A team acquiring a retained player is most likely trying to use that player for a good playoff run and anyone who acquires Marner for a playoff run is a damn moron.
 
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Nothingbutglass said:
And? How does playoff points per game over various random small sample sizes shed any insight into impact of winning playoff games? He's ahead of Matthews, so he's better in the playoffs than him? Bertuzzi is 2x as good as both of them? Its a cherry picked stat that is worthless
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lol how is active point per game leaders in the playoffs a cherry picked stat? By that definition every stat is cherry picked.

I’m not saying it’s the be all end all, but calling it worthless is nonsense
 
Sypher04 said:
lol how is active point per game leaders in the playoffs a cherry picked stat? By that definition every stat is cherry picked.

I’m not saying it’s the be all end all, but calling it worthless is nonsense
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Its worthless nonsense. You think Marner being 21st is some sort of flex. It's really not. Try watching.
 
BlueBaron said:
That would be funny if it wasn't always the other way around. 90% of Leaf fans use cautious media based valuations and are usually right. HF posters always have low ball valuations that are always wrong. This is well documented and I've won many bets on it. So it was funny in that "I don't know I'm being ironic" kind of way but probably not your goal. Keep trying.
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So many words to say absolutely nothing!
Keep trying.
 
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Sypher04 said:
So tired of this nonsense.

Mitch’s value is allegedly dumping his salary and then using it on proven winners. However, if marner leaves freeing up that cap space then it’s also over for this group, and we need to rebuild again?

Do you see how utterly stupid that logic is?
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Yeah this groups proven track record means we should try it over and over and over. Overpaying always works. Great logic.
 
I think they run it back one more time, then he walks as a UFA. I doubt he waives his NMC. He’ll do to TML similar to what Tavares did to the Isles. The only teams with that much cap space at this point are not contenders and I doubt he wants a statistical dip in a contract year.
 
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darrylsittler27 said:
Yeah this groups proven track record means we should try it over and over and over. Overpaying always works. Great logic.
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nothing you wrote here has literally anything to do with what I said or your previous comment I was replying to.

You suggested that Marner's value to the Leafs is now only the potential cap space one can recapture from trading him (a ridiculous notion in itself, but I'll give it to you for the purpose of the discussion) and in the last sentence of the same paragraph you claim that Marner walking in free agency means we should just strip the team down and rebuild for 10 years.

What happened to his cap space being valuable and can be used to improve the team?

These two points directly contradict one another.
 
Sypher04 said:
nothing you wrote here has literally anything to do with what I said or your previous comment I was replying to.

You suggested that Marner's value to the Leafs is now only the potential cap space one can recapture from trading him (a ridiculous notion in itself, but I'll give it to you for the purpose of the discussion) and in the last sentence of the same paragraph you claim that Marner walking in free agency means we should just strip the team down and rebuild for 10 years.

What happened to his cap space being valuable and can be used to improve the team?

These two points directly contradict one another.
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I don't think you know what "contradict" means.
 
FerrisRox said:
I don't think you know what "contradict" means.
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I suggest you re-read his post and my reply:

His claims:
1. Marner should be traded so we can re-purpose his cap space on proven winners.
2. Marner walking as a free agent (resulting in said cap space) means we should rebuild.

Both situations result in cap space which is what the poster said we need, and why would we use it on proven winners if we are rebuilding...

If you cannot tell that those are contradictory then I cannot help you.
 
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Sypher04 said:
I suggest you re-read his post and my reply:

His claims:
1. Marner should be traded so we can re-purpose his cap space on proven winners.
2. Marner walking as a free agent (resulting in said cap space) means we should rebuild.

Both situations result in cap space which is what the poster said we need, and why would we use it on proven winners if we are rebuilding...

If you cannot tell that those are contradictory then I cannot help you.
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Why wouldn't a rebuilding team want to have proven-winners?

Why would any team not want to have proven-winners?

What are you talking about?

Again, I don't think you understand what "contradictory" means.
 
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FerrisRox said:
Why wouldn't a rebuilding team want to have proven-winners?

Why would any team not want to have proven-winners?

What are you talking about?

Again, I don't think you understand what "contradictory" means.
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I never said a rebuild wouldn’t want proven winners; that said, if you’re rebuilding and entering a 10 year rebuild as the original post suggested, the insinuating is you are bottoming out, so it’s pretty unlikely they are priority.

I think it was very very obvious to anyone using even half a brain cell that his first sentence was about trading Marner for proven winners to improve the team now. The last one is about tearing it down even though the cap space marner would leave could still very much be used still to enact the original plan.

Again, I know full well what a contradiction is and it is one.

Maybe you should read the whole discussion and actually ensure you understand what was being discussed before interjecting
 
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