Proposal: Marner for Lindholm

[TheBigThree]

Sorry but hell no. Marner is Toronto's top prospect. Let's see, he was born in Toronto, grew up a leafs fan and now plays for the leafs. The value in that alone is a massive NO. Also he's arguably better than matthews so far if you watch the games, yes better than 4 goals in one game. He's a demon offensively.

 

[NarcoPolo]

Sorry but hell no. Marner is Toronto's top prospect. Let's see, he was born in Toronto, grew up a leafs fan and now plays for the leafs. The value in that alone is a massive NO. Also he's arguably better than matthews so far if you watch the games, yes better than 4 goals in one game. He's a demon offensively.

Peter Holland was a massive leaf fan and was born and raised in Toronto and now as for the leafs.. Relax a little lol

 

[varano]

Sorry but hell no. Marner is Toronto's top prospect. Let's see, he was born in Toronto, grew up a leafs fan and now plays for the leafs. The value in that alone is a massive NO. Also he's arguably better than matthews so far if you watch the games, yes better than 4 goals in one game. He's a demon offensively.

Ahem. There's a guy named auston matthews that would say otherwise. As for this trade.....both players mean more to their individual clubs than they would to each other.

 

[loyaltotheend]

I'm not implying that he's overrated. He's played two NHL games. I can't say if he's overrated or underrated. With that said, some of these posts are jumping the gun in a big way, not only with the comparisons that are being thrown out, but also the posts stating that "the Leafs laugh" at a Lindholm offer.

You're right, it's waaaaay too early to make many of the claims in this thread.
Personally, I wouldn't make the trade, as I really like Marner. Not putting down Lindholm, he looks like a stud, just would like to see what we have in Marner. Also I'm well aware Ducks likely say no as well.

I don't know if more than one guy made the "leafs laugh" comment, but several leaf fans also told him he's dead wrong. Of course they don't laugh, I just hope they wouldn't do it.

 

[KaseMeOutside]

What about Toronto's 2017 first rounder unprotected instead of Marner?

hfboards, where a draft pick has equal value to a 22 year old franchise dman

 

[loyaltotheend]

That doesn't make the comparison less ridiculous. Marner vs. Lindholm are two young players with high upside. Did Hunwick travel back in time? He's a veteran player, and established as what he is, which isn't anything special.

This proposal isn't a young talent for a mediocre veteran player. It's a young, skilled talent for a young, already proven to be good, and still very talented player. The logic isn't similar.

I don't think you're getting through to him. Obviously those are not even close comparables. I don't think you will get through to people making these arguments.

How about we both keep our highly valued, extremely talented players?

 

[Fogelhund]

hfboards, where a draft pick has equal value to a 22 year old franchise dman

When your cap space dictates that you can't take any roster players of value back, you are either going to get picks, prospects, or kids on an ELC.

Whether it is Lindholm, or Fowler + Stoner/Rakell... the return at this point is going to be underwhelming.

 

[dracom]

When your cap space dictates that you can't take any roster players of value back, you are either going to get picks, prospects, or kids on an ELC.

Whether it is Lindholm, or Fowler + Stoner/Rakell... the return at this point is going to be underwhelming.

That's fair and we get that. But Lindholm for just a 1st, come on now. Even with the cap crunch, that's still no where close to Lindholms value.

 

[Zegs2sendhelp]

When your cap space dictates that you can't take any roster players of value back, you are either going to get picks, prospects, or kids on an ELC.

Whether it is Lindholm, or Fowler + Stoner/Rakell... the return at this point is going to be underwhelming.

Lindholm isn't the player you move for underwhelming value.


The way I see it, an offer sheet would cost a team bout 4 1sts so the bidding starts there if you are using draft picks, if you are using players its a player of equal or better value at the forward position.


I agree with underwhelming value moving fowler/vatanen or adding to stoner.

 

[Sojourn]

I don't think you're getting through to him. Obviously those are not even close comparables. I don't think you will get through to people making these arguments.

How about we both keep our highly valued, extremely talented players?

I'm game.

 

[LeafingTheWay]

I think last year he had one of the lowest teammate shooting percentage in the league at 5 on 5 when he was on the ice. I'd say it was more of a fluke last year.

That being said he's not ever going to lead dmen in offense and will always be known for what he brings defensively.

Agreed, it was a fluke season last year. His own sh% was 2.22% and his on-ice sh% was 5%. Those are really low, unrealistic numbers and it will for sure rise back up to the norm. Lindholm has had 2 seasons of being top-10 in points/60 in the league. There's no way he's 'flat-lined' because of 1 season where the on-ice sh% was low. IMO he's going to be above average offensively and elite defensively/transition wise in the league to make him a top-10 defender in the league soon (I think he's around 15-20th best right now).

To be honest, I've had very limited viewings of Lindholm. If he's a up and coming true #1D, the leafs would have to think real long and hard about it if that's the case.

Question for Ducks fans and this is from just stat looking and I understand that offense isn't everything but:

During Lindholm's 3 years, he's been relatively flat in points scored. Last year was actually his worst year with 28 points and with 54% of his points coming from the PP. Compared to only 22% of his points coming from the PP in years 1 and 2 where he scored 30 and 34 points respectively.

Is his defensive abilities just uncanny and we can overlook the fact that his offense (points) have flat lined?

See what I wrote above, he hasn't 'flat-lined' in his offense.

 

[RomanianLeafs]

i think it's enough for this thread, both teams say no and we don't care about opinions from other fans..we get it, Marner sucks, Nylander sucks, Matthews sucks, it's ok we'll keep this best trio of prospects in the nhl and Anaheim keeps their franchise defender..i like Amaheim fans and feel sorry for them because of Randy, that guy will destroy that team

 

[Sojourn]

Lindholm is probably topping out around 40 points, if we're talking about consistent numbers. He can probably put up more than that in a very good season, but I don't see it happening consistently. That's based on what we're seeing from him offensively now.

He's someone I could see working hard in the off-season on the offensive side of the game, and seeing good results, but the best part of his offensive game right now is his ability to walk the line and get smart wrist shots through. That, and his intelligence. He's not particularly creative offensively, but he makes smart plays, and passes the puck well.

 

[Sojourn]

i think it's enough for this thread, both teams say no and we don't care about opinions from other fans..we get it, Marner sucks, Nylander sucks, Matthews sucks, it's ok we'll keep this best trio of prospects in the nhl and Anaheim keeps their franchise defender..i like Amaheim fans and feel sorry for them because of Randy, that guy will destroy that team

Is that really your takeaway from this discussion? That we think Nylander, Marner, and Matthews sucks? You realize we can think very highly of Marner as a player, but still not value him as the top 5 forward that some seem to be suggesting he will be. There is a rather large middle ground there. Huge even. You could fit Australia in it.

 

[Nucklehead Supreme]

Why are you making things up? You're making things up to be mad at them

Uhhh a leafs fan said it would take Larkin ++ to get Rielly in this thread, he was just responding to that, what exactly is he making up?

Since when does 2 games anoint a player as a generational superstar? Some of you need to look up small sample size and re-think your analysis, Marner is not more valuable than Mathews, he is not worth Mcjeesus (My god!) and he is not better than Eichel, not at this point and there is no reason to think he will be. All of those players are looked at as generational especially Mcjeesus, I have never heard anybody except for leafs fans on here say other wise, kinda telling.

Having said that I can see why Leafs fans are so excited about this player and why they don't want to trade him, especially considering your teams history of trading away blue chippers, but come on guys, Lindholm is absolutely worth more than Marner, right now. This is coming from someone who hates both teams. Neither team does this.

 

[Zegs2sendhelp]

Lindholm is probably topping out around 40 points, if we're talking about consistent numbers. He can probably put up more than that in a very good season, but I don't see it happening consistently. That's based on what we're seeing from him offensively now.

He's someone I could see working hard in the off-season on the offensive side of the game, and seeing good results, but the best part of his offensive game right now is his ability to walk the line and get smart wrist shots through. That, and his intelligence. He's not particularly creative offensively, but he makes smart plays, and passes the puck well.

I think another issue for lindholm is were pairing him witht he offensive juggernaut known as Josh manson I feel like if wee put a Theodore or a vatanen on his pairing his assist would jump up a lot too... I think with a more offensive minded partner he could hit around 45-50 range. Not that I dislike manson but I think he def holds back some of lindholms offensive capabilities.

 

[Zegs2sendhelp]

Agreed, it was a fluke season last year. His own sh% was 2.22% and his on-ice sh% was 5%. Those are really low, unrealistic numbers and it will for sure rise back up to the norm. Lindholm has had 2 seasons of being top-10 in points/60 in the league. There's no way he's 'flat-lined' because of 1 season where the on-ice sh% was low. IMO he's going to be above average offensively and elite defensively/transition wise in the league to make him a top-10 defender in the league soon (I think he's around 15-20th best right now).



See what I wrote above, he hasn't 'flat-lined' in his offense.

Good post, wasn't sure of the exact #'s and was on phone so couldn't check em up but I remember them being pretty below leagues average, so hopefully the #'s go more to his side this season and his offensive production goes back up to his norm/or above his norm.

 

[Nucklehead Supreme]

i think it's enough for this thread, both teams say no and we don't care about opinions from other fans..we get it, Marner sucks, Nylander sucks, Matthews sucks, it's ok we'll keep this best trio of prospects in the nhl and Anaheim keeps their franchise defender..i like Amaheim fans and feel sorry for them because of Randy, that guy will destroy that team

Where has anybody said that any of those players suck? Really bud stop playing the victim card, your completely off base using it here.

 

[Zegs2sendhelp]

i think it's enough for this thread, both teams say no and we don't care about opinions from other fans..we get it, Marner sucks, Nylander sucks, Matthews sucks, it's ok we'll keep this best trio of prospects in the nhl and Anaheim keeps their franchise defender..i like Amaheim fans and feel sorry for them because of Randy, that guy will destroy that team

I don't think anyone said Matthews marner or nylander suck... but if you actually inquired about lindholm it would cost 1 of them to bring him to Toronto, if anything that's a testament to how high they are regarded, lindholm is 1 of the top young dmen in the league.

The ole sayin, you have to give to get... and with the type of player like that, you cant just make a package of decent pieces and expect to get a guy like that.


As for RC.... I think well do better in the playoffs with Randy, I don't really hold anything against randy as of right now... our GM kinda hand cuff'd him pretty hard with a crappy forward group and not having the ability to have our best player on the ice, when lindholm and rakell are back and whatever happens trade wise happens(hopefully our depth improves on offense) then ill start passing my judgement on RC

 

[Pierce Hawthorne]

Would Buffalo be idiots to not trade Eichel for Lindholm? How about McDavid for Lindholm? Marner was drafted right after those guys.

Leafs stick with Marner, no question.

Wait, you're actually comparing Marner to McDavid and Eichel?


Yeesh.



If the Leafs were given the opportunity to make this trade they'd have to think long and hard about it. Top pairing Dmen are the most valuable players in the game. When you consider how young Lindholm is as well, it makes him even more valuable.


Marner's got some great potential no doubt, but Lindholm is already great.

 

[TheLeastOfTheBunch]

Wait, you're actually comparing Marner to McDavid and Eichel?


Yeesh.



If the Leafs were given the opportunity to make this trade they'd have to think long and hard about it. Top pairing Dmen are the most valuable players in the game. When you consider how young Lindholm is as well, it makes him even more valuable.


Marner's got some great potential no doubt, but Lindholm is already great.

Yeah, Lou especially values dmen like Lindholm, I think he'd pull the trigger on such a trade. I'd go for an unprotected 2017 1st + Nylander for Lindholm, but I think the Leafs might actually crack the playoffs with Lindholm on defence, so that's not enough for someone like Hampus.

It's a fruitless debate anyways, I doubt Anaheim let's him go.

 

[Zegs2sendhelp]

Yeah, Lou especially values dmen like Lindholm, I think he'd pull the trigger on such a trade. I'd go for an unprotected 2017 1st + Nylander for Lindholm, but I think the Leafs might actually crack the playoffs with Lindholm on defence, so that's not enough for someone like Hampus.

It's a fruitless debate anyways, I doubt Anaheim let's him go.

I think even if leafs part with 1 of nylander or Marner they still have a lot of good forward prospects...

Putting lindholm with Reilly and Gardnir really improves their defense, and andersen I'd an nhl goalie with playoff experience and great puck handling to help keep the young defense out of bad situations. I think if you guys got a dmen like lindholm you guys become a playoff team... so that 1st isn't that appealing.

Like you said tho I don't think Lindholm is realistically available even at the price of nylander and a 1st. You just don't move that kinda of dmen.

 

[Pierce Hawthorne]

Yeah, Lou especially values dmen like Lindholm, I think he'd pull the trigger on such a trade. I'd go for an unprotected 2017 1st + Nylander for Lindholm, but I think the Leafs might actually crack the playoffs with Lindholm on defence, so that's not enough for someone like Hampus.

It's a fruitless debate anyways, I doubt Anaheim let's him go.

Exactly.


Adam Larsson was able to return a player like Hall. Lindholm is just as good if not better then Larsson already, while also being younger still. And Hall is what Marner hopes to become.


Leafs would have to strongly consider this if it was offered to them. Nice to see a few Leafs fans without the Homer goggles still around though.

 

[Paul4587]

Lou wouldn't hesitate trading Marner if it meant he was getting back a 22 year old number 1 defenseman. Leafs fans are being ridiculous.

 

[TMLife*]

Value is there at the current moment.

That said, I don’t see why Toronto jumps on Lindholm. If we really need an upgrade on D immediately, Trouba should be the target.

But that said, we’re not competing. So why would we trade one of our top prospects who is cost controlled for 8+ more years and hasn’t even gotten close to hitting his peak value?

Value is there at the moment...